AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

Jul 2, 2016 at 12:50 AM Post #916 of 3,694
Good news, I just heard back from Focusrite's director of marketing and she said she'd be happy to loan me a Rednet AM2 for a review. I'll make sure to bring it to the Seattle Redhook meet on July 30th if it arrives in time. Looking forward to seeing @Soundsgoodtome @Muziqboy and others there if you guys are able to make it.
 
I'll post initial impressions here as soon as the AM2 arrives. If anyone in Seattle would like to meet up to audition the unit, just let me know.
 
Jul 2, 2016 at 12:52 AM Post #917 of 3,694
Very nice! I'd be interested. Have a Audeze Sine incoming too.

Also alpha421 had direct interest on an Am2 as well.
Good news, I just heard back from Focusrite's director of marketing and she said she'd be happy to loan me a Rednet AM2 for a review. I'll make sure to bring it to the Seattle Redhook meet on July 30th if it arrives in time. Looking forward to seeing @Soundsgoodtome
 @Muziqboy
 and others there if you guys are able to make it.

I'll post initial impressions here as soon as the AM2 arrives. If anyone in Seattle would like to meet up to audition the unit, just let me know.
 
Jul 2, 2016 at 4:21 AM Post #919 of 3,694

At last my new system, with RedNet at its heart instead of USB, is up and running - although having had still only about 36-48 hours of settling-in.
 
Because of one thing and another, so much of the system has changed, that now I can't with great certainty attribute SQ aspects to exactly or only one component.
 
Before:
PC(s) > Corning Optical USB 3.Optical™ Cable > SBooster Vbus2 Isolator > Hard Adapter > REGEN (stock PS) > Hard Adapter > Gustard U12 > Linn AV 5103 pre-amp with built-in DAC
 
Now:
PC(s) > Unremarkable Cat 6 cable > D16 AES > van den Hul AES/EBU 110 ohm Professional cable > Dangerous Convert-2 > bespoke Pure Silver Shielded XLR/RCA interconnects with Pin 3 floating courtesy Achtung Audio > Linn AV 5103 pre-amp
with settings:
fb2k:
       W7 Server - Sox @ 192000/Best
       W10 Player [UPnP Browser] - min buffer 50ms OK but 2000ms needed for gapless
DVS:
       Dante Latency: 4ms (Windows 10 tablet peaking at 1.9ms)
       ASIO Buffer: 128 (tried 1024 as recommended by rb2013 but went back to 128)
       ASIO Encoding: 32 bits
       ASIO Latency: 1ms
RedNet Control:
       SR 192000
       ASIO Buffer 128
Dante Controller:
       SP3 Device Config
              Sample Rate: 192k
              Encoding: PCM 32
       D16 Device Config
              Sample Rate: 192k
              Latency - 250us (150us is greyed out)
 
An intermezzo in which an Yggdrasil was willing to pas de deux with my D16 via AES even if sulking via RCA/Phono* was sufficient to assert RedNet credentials (using only a microphone cable as AES conduit). My first impression was that some space and detail in the USB set up had been sacrificed for solidity and depth, but it was difficult to gain firm impressions because I was too distracted with equipment problems. I suppose I was vindicated in my doubts about the integrity of the Yggdrasil and it went back as a return. Somewhat sensitised, and leaning towards a Pro Audio replacement (both to avoid fussy spdif pathways and also to exploit the AES output of the D16) I ordered a Dangerous Convert-2 based on open and PM recommendations from @mhamel. There are only AES analog outputs on this DAC and they are active-balanced; accordingly, I ordered some good interconnects with Pin 3 floating (having been told that 99% of standard XLR/Phono interconnects have Pin 3 tied to Pin 1 and there is commensurate risk of damage to amplifiers downstream).
 
*btw - I have been told that my Yggdrasil was, after all, faulty at the RCA/Phono input; moreover, Focusrite are quite sure that a D16 AES worked correctly with a "demo" Yggy. Our account of "finicky" consumer DACs which take the Pro-only RedNet boxes at their (copyright control) word must, then, remain provisional pending more abundant reports of RedNet > DAC success/failure or corroboration of a firmware or other adjustment which eliminates identified transmission problems.
 
I admit I didn't venture as far as a microrendu USB upgrade and can't know how for comparison purposes my system might sound had I done so. Going the RedNet way was an important decision point, and I am absolutely glad I took the plunge (even if it has left me somewhat debt-ridden). My reasons were many but included a very strong preference for fb2k and its interface/operability (I would have had to sacrifice Library Viewer and UPnP Browser for UPnP Controller had I purchased a microrendu).
 
Quite some years ago in pre-USB times I would use a Presonus Inspire 1394 with considerable satisfaction. RedNet is like Firewire with bollocks. The two main aspects of SQ for me are:
1) the layers upon layers after layers of depth which create a (Phil) Spector-like "wall of sound": now I consider that everything transparent in USB was like contrast (especially in upper registers) created with an EQ: hissy, fussy, artificial.
2) the quality of the bottom end: my Snell Type A III are more than capable of stunning bass, and USB was capable of delivering it - now, however, there is something about the lower registers that isn't just "tighter" or "more refined"  - but somehow causes me to experience my music in a qualitatively different way.
 
To me it is no coincidence that (non-classical) music began and ended with vinyl - i.e. was spawned in 1956 or thereabouts and dissolved almost totally and permanently with punk. In the 1980s and afterwards I avoided CDs like the plague - and have never considered digital music any kind of rival to analogue till now. About fifteen years ago, I lost everything and had to start over. Now I am fortunate to be trading online and have more music - both records and CDs - than I could ever listen to.
 
There is *nothing* I miss about USB. AOIP has it all - with knobs on. If, in just a brief review, one finds oneself spontaneously mentioning bollocks and knobs within just a few sentences, you just know there has to be something impressive in play.
 
You know also what I was saying about losing everything then and hearing music in a different way now? Well - my new horizons are personal as well as musical if you can see what I mean. I don't just hear more of the bass player and the snares and the backing vocals - I reinterpret my past. I get over it. I move on. Everything changes.
 
I don't think I would have heard about Dante/RedNet but for this thread and, so, hats off to @rb2013. I wouldn't have known about the Convert-2 nor had the confidence to commit to it but for @mhamel - so much respect there too (and may I say that whereas you declared a mild preference for the Convert-2 over the Yggdrasil - I am far less equivocal - I am so glad you own one and posted about it). I've enjoyed the conversations both on the thread(s) and behind the scenes with others of you guys. The last few weeks have been a most enjoyable episode of my life - and thanks to you all.
 
Jul 2, 2016 at 6:07 AM Post #920 of 3,694
And another interim report on RN3 with a Furutec fuse just added today.
 
And I too have to admit I don't know which change is responsible for what sonic attributes, but…
At this point I don't really care…
 
The SQ is starting to kick/blossom/come into much sharper focus etc, big time.
Leo Kottke's guitar has never sounded better.
His fingering technique is much more apparent, along with hearing ALL of the squeeks as his fingers slide on the strings, and to be able to hear his fingernails as they pluck the strings…
I could go on, and on…
 
The RN3 has 325+hrs, the fibre ethernet system has 32hrs and the fuse has 10hrs.
 
And I have 2-3 more fuses to try out, (thanks Big Poppa for the loan).
 
I'm having some fun now…! 
atsmile.gif

 
JJ
 
Jul 2, 2016 at 7:07 AM Post #921 of 3,694
  And another interim report on RN3 with a Furutec fuse just added today.
 
And I too have to admit I don't know which change is responsible for what sonic attributes, but…
At this point I don't really care…
 
The SQ is starting to kick/blossom/come into much sharper focus etc, big time.
 

 
I am noticing burn-in also. I was surprised by that. It was better than USB right away but now is remarkable... a combination of tonal correctness and detail which really make it more real. The growl of string bass makes goose bumps. Also remarkable layering in the sound stage.
 
Jul 2, 2016 at 5:08 PM Post #922 of 3,694
I figure that as one's system becomes all the more refined (removal of CP's etc.) that the effects of burn in become all the more noticeable, along with an increase in being able to perceive more of the gains that are made.
 
Which is another way of perceiving why some don't hear changes after adding or trying different pieces of gear, because the veiling or obscuring of this level of detail is sufficient to not be noticeable.
That the threshold of perceptibility, by the removal of CP's, needs to be crossed first, seems all the more apparent.
 
My next change will be to replace the Furutec with an Isoclean fuse.
 
JJ
 
Jul 2, 2016 at 5:52 PM Post #923 of 3,694
 
snip Quite some years ago in pre-USB times I would use a Presonus Inspire 1394 with considerable satisfaction. RedNet is like Firewire with bollocks. The two main aspects of SQ for me are:
1) the layers upon layers after layers of depth which create a (Phil) Spector-like "wall of sound": now I consider that everything transparent in USB was like contrast (especially in upper registers) created with an EQ: hissy, fussy, artificial.
2) the quality of the bottom end: my Snell Type A III are more than capable of stunning bass, and USB was capable of delivering it - now, however, there is something about the lower registers that isn't just "tighter" or "more refined"  - but somehow causes me to experience my music in a qualitatively different way.
 
snip There is *nothing* I miss about USB. AOIP has it all - with knobs on. If, in just a brief review, one finds oneself spontaneously mentioning bollocks and knobs within just a few sentences, you just know there has to be something impressive in play.
 
You know also what I was saying about losing everything then and hearing music in a different way now? Well - my new horizons are personal as well as musical if you can see what I mean. I don't just hear more of the bass player and the snares and the backing vocals - I reinterpret my past. I get over it. I move on. Everything changes.
 
I don't think I would have heard about Dante/RedNet but for this thread and, so, hats off to @rb2013. I wouldn't have known about the Convert-2 nor had the confidence to commit to it but for @mhamel - so much respect there too (and may I say that whereas you declared a mild preference for the Convert-2 over the Yggdrasil - I am far less equivocal - I am so glad you own one and posted about it). I've enjoyed the conversations both on the thread(s) and behind the scenes with others of you guys. The last few weeks have been a most enjoyable episode of my life - and thanks to you all.

I see several snipits of insight in your post, among them are…
 
"RedNet is like Firewire with bollocks."
That is as succinct a description as I could ever come up with.
And I'd include USB, and previous iterations of ethernet as well.
 
"…the quality of the bottom end:…"
"…there is something about the lower registers that isn't just "tighter" or "more refined"  - but somehow causes me to experience my music in a qualitatively different way."
I agree with this as well.
It's like ALL of the bass harmonics and tonality have become cohesive and coherent to itself, aka PRaT.
 
"I don't just hear more of the bass player and the snares and the backing vocals - I reinterpret my past."
I liken it to hearing ones music as if anew, again.
 
JJ 
atsmile.gif

 
Jul 3, 2016 at 8:24 PM Post #926 of 3,694
I want to say people are using the Rednet as master clock, output via spdif rca to spdif input of mutec 3 for reclock then to the DAC.

@Muziqboy, want to chime in how yours is hooked up?

 
...
 
(image missing)
 
Jul 3, 2016 at 8:35 PM Post #927 of 3,694
OK spoiler alert did not work for me. Let's do this again.
 
To me, RedNet 3 clock sounds better as master compared to Mutec's. Utilizing 2 Mutec's as a daisy chained Spdif reclocker sounds even more awesome!
 
BLACKNET 3 anyone?
 

 
Jul 3, 2016 at 8:43 PM Post #930 of 3,694
Did you paint the Rednet?

 
Sure did with a black acrylic paint. Not the best of paint jobs but it works and now it blends in with the rest of the gear.
And it's not an eyesore anymore.
 

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