[alubis]

I have melco n1a as my usb transport. This product is highly praised by reviewers and HiFi News also shown improved measurements in A weighted s/n ratio and jitter. But the rednet d16 sound quality is much better than the melco.

IMO, the problem with usb, aside from johnjen mentioned above, it is never specifically designed for audio use. Hence, the proliferation of usb band aids which never solve the problem in the first place.

yeah... but peteAllen source is microrendu + js2, which is much closer to a full-blown audiophile type server....
I will be looking forward to that comparison also...

 

[JayNYC]

I don't believe there exists a 'generic Dante', only manufacturer based implementations using Dante protocol.
FocusRite has its implementation of its hardware components, Burl has its own implementation of its components.
The 'only' common denominator is the usage of Audinate's Dante protocol for communication among these devices. You can mix and match any Dante device from any manufacturer. Each manufacturer decides for itself what function each component has.

So FocusRite is not higher/bigger/different to any other hardware manufacturer using Dante protocol.
It is only a matter of finding a device that has the features you are looking for and trying it out to see if the hardware is up to the audiophile levels you are looking for.
Dante's Rednet 3 and D16 is just what many are looking for when keeping your current DAC, and the Burl B2 DAC might be what others are looking for if looking for a new DAC.

For example: If we don't use Focusrite Rednet products, do we lose the ability for Sample Rate Follow? Said differently, is Sample Rate Follow currently unique to Focusrite Rednet devices only?

 

[rb2013]

The AM2 has no digital out.

Yes I know- but it is cheap.  There is the AT AES box:
http://www.atterotech.com/products/dante-aes-o/
 
But I would wait  - as there are some killer products coming...

 

[rb2013]

What are the unique selling points of operating a full Focusrite Rednet system vs a generic Dante system? In other words, what would one lose by leaving the Rednet universe and going with a generic Dante component?

Good question - really nothing.  The heart of the REDNET 3 and 16 are the Dante Brooklyn cards.  The 3 with the BK1 and the 16 with the BK2.
 
Otherwise not a lot to write home about - generic components (Pulse transformers - ugg!) - SMPS, etc...

 

 

[enginedr]

Any thoughts on using the Red Net for vinyl conversion with a ADC like the  Behringer Ultramatch Pro SRC2496 ?

 

[rb2013]

   
You tease....
 
Seriously, any more info you are able to divulge at this stage? Are we talking affordable, small, 2-channel, etc etc? What kind of timescale do you think is "coming"?

Well they made me swear a vow of silence.  It will not be just a 2-channel at this point - maybe later.  Should be annouced by yr end - assuming trials go well.
 
Audinate makes the develop easy - but not cheap.  The BK2 cards are very reasonably priced for the level of s/w and h/w they have.
 
Been reading the CA 'USB vs Ethernet' Thread - wow - err...interesting drama there.
 
I know this was previously posted here - but had to repeat it:

"After 3 weeks burn-in the Rednet 16R and Mutec MC3 + USB truly devastates my old USB chain (Berkeley usb converter, 0.8 Curious/Regen+JS-2+/Curious link/3 x Jitterbugs). I compared the two again this weekend and it took 30 seconds-ish to comfirm I did the right thing getting the Rednet and Mutec. The speed of the transients is much faster, the USB chain sounded muffled and slow compared to the Rednet 16R/Mutec.​

​

​

I use a Synergistic Reasearch Tungsten/Cobber AC cable on my Mutec and an old gen Nordost on my Rednet. The Mutec responds better to the AC cable than the Rednet. I have both placed on a S.R. Tranquility Basic platform and the Mutec is connected to a S.R. Grounding Block with HD usb cable. The result is lower noise and better dynamic contrast.​

​

​

I also use FMCs with the Rednet end connected to my JS-2 and a 1 foot Blue Jeans 6a ethernet to the Rednet.​

​

​

My AES cables are Shunyata Anaconda 1.5 meter and a Straight Wire InfoLink 1.5 meter. Both will be replaced with S.R. Atmosphere Level 3 AES 1.5 meters next week or so."​

​

​

The sound is so good now

!​

 

 
Thanks to the great representation from the active folks here - on that thread.  Presenting AOIP in a fair and favorable light - correcting inaccuracies...etc...
 
This AOIP movement is gathering much steam...right now Rednet stuff is the underground audio buzz in a lot of places.  If Focusrite was a 'High End Audio' company - I'm sure Rednet's would be on the cover of every audio magazine...I have not seen a mention yet.   The NADAC is barely on the radar scope.
 
This thread is where it's at - for now

 

[rb2013]

 
yeah... but peteAllen source is microrendu + js2, which is much closer to a full-blown audiophile type server....
I will be looking forward to that comparison also...

Yes that's true, and it will be interesting to see his take.  The old YMMV - applies to AOIP as well.  But so far it's been a knock down winner in almost every matchup.  Including that unnamed forum's posting by a micorendu convert to RN.
 
And I have a pretty deep history in perfecting USB chains - the PUC2 was not at the top of the list:
 
Just reposting for the newer thread readers:
Here would be my current ratings and rankings (the numbers are just a relative number - they are not percentages).  The Breeze Audio (Talema) DU-U8 = 100
 
Obviously these are my subjective ratings YMMV - and yes I have owned (had a loaner) all these for an extended period of time:
 
REDNET 3/Cerious Graphene/Mutec 3+ USB (SPDIF)/Antelope OCX (RN wClock)           270
REDNET 3/Cerious/Mutec 3+ USB/Audience au24 se digital cable                               250
REDNET 3/Cerious/Mutec 3+ USB (SPDIF reclocker)/AS Sliver Statement dig cable        240
REDNET 3/Cerious Power Cord                                                                               220
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2/Startech GB LAN Iso USB               170
Mutec 3+ Smart Clock USB/Cerious Power Cord                                                        155
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2                                                   145
PUC2 Lite TeraDak DC30W/Cerious/Regen                                                               135
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious                                                                                   135
DXIO Silver/TeraDak DC-30W/Cerious                                                                      130
Singxer X-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/iPur2                                                    125
PUC2 Lite - USB power                                                                                          110
Singxer F-1  Stock feed                                                                                          110
Breeze/Cerious Graph/WBT RCA Nexgen                                                                   109
Breeze DU-U8 with Cerious Graphene                                                                      108
 Breeze DU-U8 (Talema version)                                                                              100
Breeze DU-U8 (BingZi version)                                                                                 95
Hydra Z with LPS                                                                                                    92
Melodious MX-U8 (upgraded caps)                                                                             85
Melodious MX-U8 (stock)                                                                                          81
Gustard U12 (upgraded caps)                                                                                    76
Gustard U12 stock                                                                                                   72
iDAC DAC2 (used as a DDC)                                                                                      65
Musiland USB3.0 US Dragon                                                                                      65
M2Tech EVO with LPS                                                                                              60
Audiophileo 2  USB Power                                                                                         50
M2Tech Hiface                                                                                                         40
 

 

[motberg]

  I don't mean to specifically point at your setup, but to point out that the factors that AOIP brings to the party are, galvanic isolation and the separation of signal's data and timing that is being sent from the 'source' to the dac.
And of course there are others as well but these seem to be of key importance.
And as has been brought up, improving these aspects even further can make further significant improvements as well.
 
The Dante networking solution is key but it's only one of several 'ingredients' necessary to successfully make this solution function and do so without performance 'issues'.
 
Lastly, the move towards adopting and implementing AES 67 protocols should also 'open up' the field of device interoperability within any suitable AOIP network.
IOW mixing and matching different h/w and s/w should become doable, to some extent.
 
JJ

Thanks for the info - very interesting..
regarding "separation signal's data and timing that is being sent from the 'source' to the dac" .. if I understand correctly, just using a SPDIF connection would recombine the data and timing, so maybe the preferred D16 usage would be to include the wordclock out to the DAC via BNC ?
If so, then it seems maybe for audiophiles AOIP to i2S via card or box, (or direct to DAC) would be technically a benefit by eliminating the SPDIF conversion?

 

[jabbr]

For example: If we don't use Focusrite Rednet products, do we lose the ability for Sample Rate Follow? Said differently, is Sample Rate Follow currently unique to Focusrite Rednet devices only?

Yes, currently sample rate following is only a feature of Focusrite RedNets.
But there is no reason why it should be, other manufacturers could implement it as well.
It is a feature of ASIO to allow its Sample Rate to be changed by software and it is a feature of the Focusrite firmware to follow a differing sample rate (and switch the rednet to a different sample rate) instead of rejecting a connection as it would do by default.
Other manufacturers could also change their firmware to allow it to follow a different sample rate than what it is set to.

But following sample rate is only one of the features that differ between manufacturers of Dante devices. Other differences are supported sample rates, support of AES67 protocol, multicast/unicast support, ...

All these devices are made for the pro audio world, specifically recording studios, broadcasting and public sound systems. All with very different requirements than consumer playback systems.

 

[Tboooe]

   
You tease....
 
Seriously, any more info you are able to divulge at this stage? Are we talking affordable, small, 2-channel, etc etc? What kind of timescale do you think is "coming"?

Yes!  A more consumer focused product would be great. Something smaller, cheaper, easier to use, etc.  Of course I am not holding my breath though.

 

[rb2013]

I have melco n1a as my usb transport. This product is highly praised by reviewers and HiFi News also shown improved measurements in A weighted s/n ratio and jitter. But the rednet d16 sound quality is much better than the melco.

IMO, the problem with usb, aside from johnjen mentioned above, it is never specifically designed for audio use. Hence, the proliferation of usb band aids which never solve the problem in the first place.

Nice!  Add the highly regarded Melco N1A to the list...thanks for posting that.
 
But a new form of AOIP is on the horzion - been having private discussions on this front too.
 
The Lynx PCIe card has been gaining good reports.  This is a precursor to a major swelling wave coming - Thunderbolt 3.  A game changer?  I'd say definitely has the potential.
 
The big news I posted on the TB3 thread - MS support for TB3 and Intel already has PC MB chipsets in production (Asus PC MB with TB3 built in).  No audio players yet - but I have confirmed they are in the works...this is gonna be big...and TB3 is said to be compatible with AES67.  So Audinate and Merging Tech better get moving or they will be left in the dust.
 
I have a close eye out for the 1st low cost TB3 Audio device.  Focusrite already has a TB2 Clarett Pre4 out.  TB3 is a major leap over TB2 - using a different connector.  The universal USB type-c - this will dramatically lower the cost for connectors and cables.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/806121/thunderbolt-3-for-audio-is-this-the-next-computer-audio-standard

 

[rb2013]

 
Any thoughts on using the Red Net for vinyl conversion with a ADC like the  Behringer Ultramatch Pro SRC2496 ?

BURL has a nice Dante ADC as well - not cheap though.
 
http://vintageking.com/burl-audio-b2-bomber-adc-with-dante-connectivity?gclid=CJirvIWro88CFYRsfgod8DIE7A

 

[enginedr]

As the Red Net 3 and  D16 communicate in both directions I thought going into the RN via AES digital and sending the digital information to the computer AOIP
would be a better solution then the current USB ADCs . Just another use for the Red Net that many of us own.   

 

[motberg]

 
Yes that's true, and it will be interesting to see his take.  The old YMMV - applies to AOIP as well.  But so far it's been a knock down winner in almost every matchup.  Including that unnamed forum's posting by a micorendu convert to RN.
 
And I have a pretty deep history in perfecting USB chains - the PUC2 was not at the top of the list:
 
Just reposting for the newer thread readers:
Here would be my current ratings and rankings (the numbers are just a relative number - they are not percentages).  The Breeze Audio (Talema) DU-U8 = 100
   

Yes - many thanks for keeping track and reporting of all that data... and great to re-post on occasion as these threads get pretty long and the ratings/rankings list becomes a good anchor point
To me, it seems that for USB, the source of the signal origin itself is critical.. (my USB system sounds great, so I would like to be cautious while stepping into the AOIP realm..) 
For example in my experience, just at the computer level; using all LPS, server software in core mode, wav files, simple playback software allowing the computer to go into a simulated hibernate, no spinning drives, no fans, monitor powered off, (and some of the other crazy but commonly reported improvements like special SATA cables and resonance control of the SSD's).. I can eek out maybe 40 positive perception points on your list. so.. though I am also pretty sure the D16 will kill the PUC2 given the price difference and the advance in technology the past couple years, when I saw the combination of microrendu and the JS-2 (which I understand is pretty special due to its isolated design) - I was thinking that combination should give the PUC2 a somewhat solid performance base - so thus provide another good reference point that I could better relate to.

 

[rb2013]

  As the Red Net 3 and  D16 communicate in both directions I thought going into the RN via AES digital and sending the digital information to the computer AOIP
would be a better solution then the current USB ADCs . Just another use for the Red Net that many of us own.   

Oh I thought you were talking about vinyl conversion (if it's going to go to your computer it has to be digitalized).  Since vinyl is analog - you'd need a analog to digital (ADC) device.
 
So a AOIP ADC vs a USB ADC?
 
BTW talking about coming full circle - I did digitalize my LP collection - about 10 yrs ago.  Used an Ethernet Pro Audio ADC!  EMU 1616M - the Ethernet protocol was based on a proprietary scheme.  It worked great - using Steinberg's Wavelab 6.0 - archived every LP at 32 bit 176K sampling WAV files.  Had a near sota analog rig back then.
 
Boy do they sound great played through AOIP.
 
PS I think I get your point - use an inexpensive ADC to fed the RN3 or 16D digitally to send to the computer.  Sorry for not getting that before.
The result of the conversion will still depend mostly on the quality of the ADC chips, power supply, design, etc...simply routing through AOIP vs USB may help somewhat and should be fairly easy to do.  Just like using AOIP on an inexpensive DAC - won't turn water into wine - but should help.
Wavelab for instance accepts ASIO input with a few clicks.