Audio Measurements on a Headfi Budget

Would you buy an expensive headphone without hearing it or seeing any measurements for it?

  • No

  • Yes, I'd buy it on the spot if Steve Guttenberg says it sounds good. He is always right.


Results are only viewable after voting.
post-15339302
Post #76 of 99

earfonia

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
2,429
Reaction score
4,575
Location
Singapore
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Location
Singapore
Posts
2,429
Likes
4,575
Hello is there a simple / easy to follow guide for setting up REW w/ Dayton iMM6? for someone that is clueless like me? I only want to measure for Channel Imbalance on IEMs
I started clueless as well when starting IEM measurement. If your objective is simply to check channels matching, what you need is a coupler that allow you to fit the IEM with same consistent distance to the microphone everytime you do measurement. As on the REW part, watch YouTube video and play around with it.

1. Some measurement mics is not properly sealed between the microphone capsule and the microphone nozzle / head. This resulting severe abnormal bass roll off on the measurement result. If you see the bass roll off too much, you need to do the hard part, remove the mic nozzle and try to apply some glue to seal the mic capsule. I broke one Dayton UMM-6 when trying to do this. So be really careful.

2. Getting good coupler is probably another difficult part. But if only to check channel matching, I guess something like flexible Silicone tube / host might help. Suggested distance from mic to IEM nozzle is around 13mm. Many years back when I use iMM-6, I made coupler using heat shrink tube. Around 4-5 layers are good.

3. Listen to the IEM, set it at your listening volume. Measure around that level.

4. Be consistent when fixing the IEM to the couple. Try to be as consistent as possible.

My2cents.
 
post-15423988
Post #78 of 99

rggz

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
447
Reaction score
367
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Posts
447
Likes
367
I was trying to find a way to measure my IEMs to check the channel matching/bass level and I've tried using a syringe tube, pen, aquarium hose but nothing could fit well on my mic (Zalman ZM-1). Funny enough today I was looking for something in my tool drawer and I found some parts of an old stove then I've spent some time tinkering it with blu-tac and voila! It works well for this propose, but what the hell is that peak?
Is there a way to improve it using some compensation file? Or is just better upgrading my mic to imm6 + tube?
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: csglinux and Slater
post-15424824
Post #79 of 99

TLDRonin

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 5, 2017
Messages
505
Reaction score
287
Location
California
Joined
Nov 5, 2017
Location
California
Posts
505
Likes
287
     Share This Post       
post-15426377
Post #80 of 99

Bobkidpop

New Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Messages
1
Reaction score
1
Location
Singapore
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Location
Singapore
Posts
1
Likes
1
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: TLDRonin
post-15427775
Post #81 of 99

csglinux

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
3,484
Reaction score
2,551
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Posts
3,484
Likes
2,551
I was trying to find a way to measure my IEMs to check the channel matching/bass level and I've tried using a syringe tube, pen, aquarium hose but nothing could fit well on my mic (Zalman ZM-1). Funny enough today I was looking for something in my tool drawer and I found some parts of an old stove then I've spent some time tinkering it with blu-tac and voila! It works well for this propose, but what the hell is that peak?




Is there a way to improve it using some compensation file? Or is just better upgrading my mic to imm6 + tube?
What a brilliant way to recycle some of your old kitchen equipment! Respect! :)

As to those peaks, if nothing is loose or wobbly and the measurements are repeatable, then I can only think of three possibilities: 1) it's a driver resonance, 2) it's a resonance from your coupler, or 3) a combination of both. My guess would be number 2, because your cylinder/coupler/fake ear canal (top right figure) looks quite long. The average ear canal is about 24 mm long, but an IEM is going to occupy about half of that, so I think you might need to hacksaw off some of that cylinder length in order to have your IEM nozzle sit a bit closer to the mic. That will cause that peak to shift to a higher frequency. You're never going to completely match a 711 coupler result, but it should get closer.

I wouldn't reach for a compensation curve just yet. They're just a fudge for a multitude of sins :)
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: rggz
post-15429141
Post #82 of 99

rggz

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
447
Reaction score
367
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Posts
447
Likes
367
What a brilliant way to recycle some of your old kitchen equipment! Respect! :)

As to those peaks, if nothing is loose or wobbly and the measurements are repeatable, then I can only think of three possibilities: 1) it's a driver resonance, 2) it's a resonance from your coupler, or 3) a combination of both. My guess would be number 2, because your cylinder/coupler/fake ear canal (top right figure) looks quite long. The average ear canal is about 24 mm long, but an IEM is going to occupy about half of that, so I think you might need to hacksaw off some of that cylinder length in order to have your IEM nozzle sit a bit closer to the mic. That will cause that peak to shift to a higher frequency. You're never going to completely match a 711 coupler result, but it should get closer.

I wouldn't reach for a compensation curve just yet. They're just a fudge for a multitude of sins :)
Thanks for your input! Definitely I'll try it later.

I've added a tiny piece of cotton in front of the mic and I could rid of that odd resonance peak:
Arta_2020-01-21_14-04-44.png
Orange = Sony MH755 / Blue = ZS3 with CP145 / Red = ZS3 with Sony Hybrid

Although I feel anything past 1kHz is really off, but for my initial goal in checking possible QC issues (like a huge channel imbalance), it's not that bad! I'm happy that it showed a small difference between the tips CP145 and Sony Hybrids to something very similar to what I'm hearing, a bit more sub-bass on Sony Hybrids and a bit brighter on CP145. Eventually, I'll try to upgrade it for a better rig but again thanks for the help!
 
Last edited:
     Share This Post       
post-15458230
Post #84 of 99

TonySunshine

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
432
Reaction score
98
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Posts
432
Likes
98
     Share This Post       
post-15460091
Post #85 of 99

csglinux

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
3,484
Reaction score
2,551
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Posts
3,484
Likes
2,551
does it come with a mic or just a coupler?
You've got the choice of either. The easiest option would be for you to get one already with the mic installed. If you're feeling adventurous and handy at DIY, you can try to get the coupler alone, and then install your own mic. (But I would only worry about installing your own mic if you're also interested in measuring distortion. For FR alone, you don't need a fancy condenser mic.)
 
     Share This Post       
post-15474921
Post #86 of 99

TonySunshine

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
432
Reaction score
98
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Posts
432
Likes
98
Hi All

Is there a standard or best practice when measuring CIEMs with the IEC711 coupler? How do you seal the acrylic CIEM nozzle to the metal coupler opening?

Thanks
 
     Share This Post       
post-15475860
Post #87 of 99

csglinux

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
3,484
Reaction score
2,551
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Posts
3,484
Likes
2,551
Hi All

Is there a standard or best practice when measuring CIEMs with the IEC711 coupler? How do you seal the acrylic CIEM nozzle to the metal coupler opening?

Thanks
That's a great question. I doubt anybody (even those with TOTL pro rigs) will get this 100% right. Unless you've got an anatomically-perfect dummy replica of yourself, the measurements are going to be off by some amount.

My best advice would be don't buy a CIEM :wink: Really. They're such a crapshoot. The OEM is never going to be able to exactly match that UIEM tuning you experienced (and presumably liked?), so you're always rolling the dice to some extent with a CIEM. I've seen a lot of customs measure wildly differently from their UIEM counterparts, and those differences can't all be attributable to measurement issues. A went on a bit of a rant about CIEMs here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crinacles-iem-fr-measurement-database.830062/post-13802480

If you absolutely have to have a custom and need to measure it, I'd insert the CIEM nozzle as far as it will go in the coupler opening and then seal around it thoroughly with mounting putty. It probably won't be all that far off considering that, even for UIEMs, we don't really know a perfect way to match insertion depth. I guess what's needed is some kind of very flexible, gel-filled artificial pinna/canal opening that would comfortably stretch to fit any shape of CIEM. I don't know of any such product. Yet. GRAS, B&K - if you make one, you owe me royalties.

P.S. @TonySunshine - I love your signature quote. I can relate :dt880smile:
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: castleofargh
post-15477365
Post #88 of 99

TonySunshine

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
432
Reaction score
98
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Posts
432
Likes
98
Thanks for the thorough response. I guess its a bit too late for me to heed your advice, as I've owned the 64 Audio N8 for a few months now. Double duty for audiophile needs as well as on stage as a guitar player. I'll try using blutac or putty. Just wanted to see how my N8 measures compared to the ones crinacle has measured.

That's a great question. I doubt anybody (even those with TOTL pro rigs) will get this 100% right. Unless you've got an anatomically-perfect dummy replica of yourself, the measurements are going to be off by some amount.

My best advice would be don't buy a CIEM :wink: Really. They're such a crapshoot. The OEM is never going to be able to exactly match that UIEM tuning you experienced (and presumably liked?), so you're always rolling the dice to some extent with a CIEM. I've seen a lot of customs measure wildly differently from their UIEM counterparts, and those differences can't all be attributable to measurement issues. A went on a bit of a rant about CIEMs here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crinacles-iem-fr-measurement-database.830062/post-13802480

If you absolutely have to have a custom and need to measure it, I'd insert the CIEM nozzle as far as it will go in the coupler opening and then seal around it thoroughly with mounting putty. It probably won't be all that far off considering that, even for UIEMs, we don't really know a perfect way to match insertion depth. I guess what's needed is some kind of very flexible, gel-filled artificial pinna/canal opening that would comfortably stretch to fit any shape of CIEM. I don't know of any such product. Yet. GRAS, B&K - if you make one, you owe me royalties.

P.S. @TonySunshine - I love your signature quote. I can relate :dt880smile:
 
     Share This Post       
post-15478007
Post #89 of 99

WinterCharm

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
214
Reaction score
19
Location
USA
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Location
USA
Posts
214
Likes
19
Many thanks to @earfonia for this link:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000073069259.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4di1SuPh

If you don't live in China, the above link is probably a much easier purchase option for your 711 coupler.
This looks good, but wow, it's a bit of a step up vs the TaoBao prices. Does AliExpress include shipping?

Also, I found this link on AliExpress for the barrel style (rather than base/platform style) connector: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000544425172.html - does anyone know if it's trustworthy / worth ordering?

What kind of buyer protection does AliExpress have if it's a dud? (I've never bought anything from there before).
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: csglinux
post-15478050
Post #90 of 99

csglinux

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
3,484
Reaction score
2,551
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Posts
3,484
Likes
2,551
Thanks for the thorough response. I guess its a bit too late for me to heed your advice, as I've owned the 64 Audio N8 for a few months now. Double duty for audiophile needs as well as on stage as a guitar player. I'll try using blutac or putty. Just wanted to see how my N8 measures compared to the ones crinacle has measured.
I'm almost sure you'll see differences w.r.t. to the UIEM versions. In fact, just look at the spread of measurements even amongst different UIEM serial numbers on crinacle's website. That ought to worry potential customers. In fact, in the last couple of days I just purchased a UIEM that didn't sound or measure the same as the demo UIEM pair I first heard/measured. I tend to find big-brand names like Shure, Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, Sony, etc., tend to have fairly tight tolerances, but smaller, more boutique headphone companies can have a pretty big spread and often not-so-good QC. You're wise to check these things out with a coupler. I actually don't think these couplers are that expensive if you're investing $1000s on the IEMs themselves.

This looks good, but wow, it's a bit of a step up vs the TaoBao prices. Does AliExpress include shipping?

Also, I found this link on AliExpress for the barrel style (rather than base/platform style) connector: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000544425172.html - does anyone know if it's trustworthy / worth ordering?
I'd say yes and yes, respectively :wink: The plinth-style couplers are overkill. You don't need that large solid base. Just put your barrel-style coupler on some sorbothane for damping. This is another great find! Many thanks for sharing that link :)

What kind of buyer protection does AliExpress have if it's a dud? (I've never bought anything from there before).
60 day money-back guarantee. I've bought many items from AliExpress and never had an issue. I'm sure you'll be fine.
 
     Share This Post       

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 2)

Top