[FredA]

Thanks, MelonHead
I have already read this.

But Such a response confirms only that all these measurements
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-measurements-of-audio-gd-r2r11-dac-amp.5779/
are correct.

He essentially has nothing to say.
Nevertheless, his higher, expensive products in the line have good measurements (and he measures them and publishes measurements and these specifications. Why then do it? After all, just "trust your ears.")
In all other lower products - we have the following:
It turns out that many people with good hearing simply will hear the polluted, distorted, and poorly detailed sound.
(which is called "oil painting").
right?

Audiosciencereview makes theirs measurements with a 4v output, using a 40-50 ohms load. And possibly with the high-gain mode on some instances. With a 90db/mW headset, you basically induce hearing damage within a short period at this level. The guy (Amir) even admits not knowing how to operate the unit on his latest review of an audio-gd gear. He was not even able to locate the user manual on audio-gd’s site.

With any amp, distorsion will go up as the ouput current increases. The spec for audio-gd are made at a more reasonable level. One that will not make you deaf.

Note that audioscience review also demoslished Schiitt products, like the Yggdrasil.

One other observation: do you really think Amir, the guy beind this forum, is working for free and operating at lost for the greater good? Don’t be naive. This website certainly is sponsored.

I have bought 9 audio-gd products so far, and enjoy them all. The r2r-11 is the best sounding unit i came across as a dac for that kind of money. Frankly, hearing what i hear, i could not care less about specs. That said, i am sure they can be replicated under the mentioned conditions. Kingwa is a very honest person, this i know for sure.

 

[gLer]

Audiosciencereview makes theirs measurements with a 4v output, using a 40-50 ohms load. And possibly with the high-gain mode on some instances. With a 90db/mW headset, you basically induce hearing damage within a short period at this level. The guy (Amir) even admits not knowing how to operate the unit on his latest review of an audio-gd gear. He was not even able to locate the user manual on audio-gd’s site.

With any amp, distorsion will go up as the ouput current increases. The spec for audio-gd are made at a more reasonable level. One that will not make you deaf.

Note that audioscience review also demoslished Schiitt products, like the Yggdrasil.

One other observation: do you really think Amir, the guy beind this forum, is working for free and operating at lost for the greater good? Don’t be naive. This website certainly is sponsored.

I have bought 9 audio-gd products so far, and enjoy them all. The r2r-11 is the best sounding unit i came across as a dac for that kind of money. Frankly, hearing what i hear, i could not care less about specs. That said, i am sure they can be replicated under the mentioned conditions. Kingwa is a very honest person, this i know for sure.

Couldn’t have said it better myself @FredA.

 

[FredA]

To be completely honest, i am not sure what output level audio-gd uses for their tests.

On the other hand, Amir’s tests were done at a deafening level.

Another observation, i can’t hear any distorsion or noise with the three amps/combos i still own. I could not either with the one i sold 4 years ago to his still happy new owner.

 

[youurayy]

Thanks, MelonHead
I have already read this.

But Such a response confirms only that all these measurements
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-measurements-of-audio-gd-r2r11-dac-amp.5779/
are correct.

He essentially has nothing to say.
Nevertheless, his higher, expensive products in the line have good measurements (and he measures them and publishes measurements and these specifications. Why then do it? After all, just "trust your ears.")
In all other lower products - we have the following:
It turns out that many people with good hearing simply will hear the polluted, distorted, and poorly detailed sound.
(which is called "oil painting").
right?

Wow, this is amazing.

Considering his unit wasn't faulty, this goes to show that measurements and precision mean absolutely nothing.

I have a very high-end Pro iDSD sitting right under the R2R11 (on top is NFB 11.38, also a killer sound), and the R2R11 gets the most playtime, and it would be the unit I would choose if I had to choose only one. Go figure. (Both for Utopia and PMx2.) LOL ! (Of course the top preference is to be able to switch the sound signatures over time, but if you own R2R11, you are correct to assume that you don't need to spend more money on a headphone DAC -- my opinion.)

 

[FredA]

Wow, this is amazing.

Considering his unit wasn't faulty, this goes to show that measurements and precision mean absolutely nothing.

I have a very high-end Pro iDSD sitting right under the R2R11 (on top is NFB 11.38, also a killer sound), and the R2R11 gets the most playtime, and it would be the unit I would choose if I had to choose only one. Go figure. (Both for Utopia and PMx2.) LOL ! (Of course the top preference is to be able to switch the sound signatures over time, but if you own R2R11, you are correct to assume that you don't need to spend more money on a headphone DAC -- my opinion.)

I bought my r2r-11 one year ago, and it still amazes me with how right it sounds. It allows you to dig deeply into music without any detail forced on you. Outstanding smoothness/resolution combination.

 

[PopZeus]

I’m definitely with Kingwa on this one. I got into this hobby to enjoy my music, not spend my down time looking at specs and graphs. Of course, those things can help explain some of what I’m hearing, but it’s not the whole picture. Pretty sure, for instance, that all those nice harmonics that the R2R-11 produces register as distortion or inaccuracies when graphed. Now, I’ll admit I think the 1 sounds better than the 11. It’s more dynamic, transparent, and refined than its little brother. But I’d be lying if I didn’t say the 11 is the most impressive affordable piece of gear I own. If I could only have one DAC/amp combo, it would be this one.

Also, just to show my ignorance about technical matters, I had no idea that ASR graphs things at deafening volumes. Makes all their claims seem so much more academic, no?

 

[youurayy]

I bought my r2r-11 one year ago, and it still amazes me with how right it sounds. It allows you to dig deeply into music without any detail forced on you. Outstanding smoothness/resolution combination.

I’m definitely with Kingwa on this one. I got into this hobby to enjoy my music, not spend my down time looking at specs and graphs. Of course, those things can help explain some of what I’m hearing, but it’s not the whole picture. Pretty sure, for instance, that all those nice harmonics that the R2R-11 produces register as distortion or inaccuracies when graphed.

I fully agree!

 

[Nickol]

We all know that the task of any good equipment is to convey to us the sound (source) as it was recorded (recorded), without losing it, without hiding the details and without spoiling them.
That's why I ask, do you think device R2R 11 with such measurements - makes it?

 

[gLer]

We all know that the task of any good equipment is to convey to us the sound (source) as it was recorded (recorded), without losing it, without hiding the details and without spoiling them.
That's why I ask, do you think device R2R 11 with such measurements - makes it?

That is one definition, yes. And I don’t feel the R2R-11 is really ‘hiding’ any details. Sure it’s not as resolving as the $1100 R-28, but it also costs 1/3 the price. If you want *more* than what the R2R-11 does, you have to be willing to pay more. Same story with headphones.

 

[Nickol]

And I don’t feel the R2R-11 is really ‘hiding’ any details.

This can be noticed and drawn only after you directly compare the device with any other DAC/combo (there are a lot of them in this price niche), which has excellent measuring data and indicators. In addition, it is desirable (but not necessarily of course) that you have a good ear. Did you make such a comparison? Has anyone done such a comparison?
Now, if at least more than 10 people make such a comparison, then something can be stated unequivocally.
...and then Kingwa writes about supposedly more than 3,000 satisfied responses, but if he wrote about more than 3,000 such comparisons, then it would have been a different matter...

 

[FredA]

We all know that the task of any good equipment is to convey to us the sound (source) as it was recorded (recorded), without losing it, without hiding the details and without spoiling them.
That's why I ask, do you think device R2R 11 with such measurements - makes it?

You take these measurements for granted. Audiosciencereview has no credibility whatsoever. Who finances that site?

These audio-gd r2r dacs are so faithful that you can distinctly hear distorsion in old Wes Montgomery’s records. This sort of obvious defect is not so obvious on speakers, and pretty much absent from any modern recording, using the r11 or the r7. A device that reproduces recording defects with so little mercy is really accurate iMO. I have been in this hobby for over 25 years, i can tell good sound from bad sound. The r11 is the best sounding unit per dollar spent i ever came across.

Do you enjoy your r11 or not?


Although i have no reason to doubt audio-gd’s measuements, these only tell a very short part of the story. Human hearing is way more complex and subtle than any measuring device can be. This reminds me of Nwavguy, the guy who designed the o2 dac. According to his measuements, which i have no reason to doubt, his dac is perfect. Is the o2 the perfect sounding dac? Not at all.

Also, go check the published specs for the Moon p-5 preamp, for instance. The pre does not even give you 100dB of s/n. Is this a noisy pre? Not at all. 100dB is a lot for all practical purposes.

Another example: up to not so long ago, no loudspeaker on the market could do less than 1% of overall distorsion. 20db would be the s/d ratio. Could a human being hear distorsion from these speakers? In the case where it is mosty concentrated in the mids and lows, i don’t think so.

We use specs as indicators to the quality of an audio device. But really, the only test that matters is the auditoning.

 

[Nickol]

You take these measurements for granted. Audiosciencereview has no credibility whatsoever. Who finances that site?

These audio-gd r2r dacs are so faithful that you can distinctly hear distorsion in old Wes Montgomery’s records. This sort of obvious defect is not so obvious on speakers, and pretty much absent from any modern recording, using the r11 or the r7. A device that reproduces recording defects with so little mercy is really accurate iMO. I have been in this hobby for over 25 years, i can tell good sound from bad sound. The r11 is the best sounding unit per dollar spent i ever came across.

Do you enjoy your r11 or not?

Although i have no reason to doubt audio-gd’s measuements, these only tell a very short part of the story. Human hearing is way more complex and subtle than any measuring device can be. This reminds me of Navguy, the guy who designed the o2 dac. According to his measuements, which i have no reason to doubt, his dac is perfect. Is the o2 the perfect sounding dac? Not at all.

Also, go check the published specs for the Moon p-5 preamp, for instance. The pre does not even give you 100dB of s/n. Is this a noisy pre? Not at all. 100dB is a lot for all practical purposes.

Another example: up to not so long ago, no loudspeaker on the market could do less than 1% of overall distorsion. 20db would be the s/d ratio. Could a human being hear distorsion from these speakers? In the case where it is mosty concentrated in the mids and lows, i don’t think so.

We use specs as indicators to the quality of an audio device. But really, the only test that matters is the auditoning.

I agree with you in general.
And I have not yet taken these measurements for granted. They can be fake, completely from another device, for example. And this site (I mean Audiosciencereview) is not the ultimate truth. (if they posted a video this measurement process, then it is another matter).

I like how my device R2R-11 sounds.
But I am a subjective listener with little experience, I just have nothing to compare it with. Therefore, I am a little afraid that listening to music at R2R-11, I may not hear the full picture, or hear the music with distortion, but I don’t even know about it myself.

I am glad for you that you have such a great experience in this hobby. Your experience, feedback and comparisons of R2R-11 with other devices - inspire hope and confidence in objectivity.
But I would also like to hear more opinions and statements of other people about sound from different and independent people who had the opportunity to compare our R2R-11 with others device.
Then it would be possible to make more straightforward conclusions.

 

[bunkbail]

I agree with you in general.
And I have not yet taken these measurements for granted. They can be fake, completely from another device, for example. And this site (I mean Audiosciencereview) is not the ultimate truth. (if they posted a video this measurement process, then it is another matter).

I like how my device R2R-11 sounds.
But I am a subjective listener with little experience, I just have nothing to compare it with. Therefore, I am a little afraid that listening to music at R2R-11, I may not hear the full picture, or hear the music with distortion, but I don’t even know about it myself.

I am glad for you that you have such a great experience in this hobby. Your experience, feedback and comparisons of R2R-11 with other devices - inspire hope and confidence in objectivity.
But I would also like to hear more opinions and statements of other people about sound from different and independent people who had the opportunity to compare our R2R-11 with others device.
Then it would be possible to make more straightforward conclusions.

Dude, I own the R2R-11 and Khadas tone board, which is one of the best measuring DAC on his site, and I love both DACs equally. Khadas tone board extracts all the details and subtleties in the music but the R2R-11 adds soul to them. Make of that what you will.

 

[Nickol]

bunkbail, I do not know what Khadas is and how you use it with the R2R-11.

 

[bunkbail]

bunkbail, I do not know what Khadas is and how you use it with the R2R-11.

The tone board is a Sabre based DAC and you don't use it with the R2R-11, you need a separate headamp for it.