[middachten]

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Due to poorly written english the differences between the NFB-3 and NFB-2 are not really apparent to me.  Anyone care to explain? I am seriously thinking of pulling the trigger over my maverick Tube Magic D1

I'm seriously considering the same switch!
Its only the pre-amp part that I will be missing (currently driving a power-amp with the D1). So, I might go for the NFB-10, or NFB-2+C2.
 
Anyway, the main differences are the power supply, resistors and the capacitors that are being used.
The powersupply actually offer quite a significant difference between discrete, non-feedback, regulator circuits types for the NFB-2 and 'standard' 3-leg linear regulators for the NFB-3. Except for the 2 discrete regulators for the analog output.
 
I've been in audio electronics engineer a long time ago (I quit in 1996) but I still remember the listening sessions where we compared equal circuits with only different power supply. The differences where sometimes earth shocking (in particular with digital/analog equipment and power amplifiers). I would say that a power supply makes about 60%-75% of the potential quality difference (ceteris paribus). 

 

[.Sup]

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Primarily, NFB3 has a better power supply design for the digital and analog circuit. Whether this translates into improvement worth the cost difference hasn't been established. I'm not aware of a retail DAC that has as much attention paid to power supply in that price range, that's for sure.

NFB2 has a better PSU is what you probably wanted to write

 

[ninjikiran]

Whats what I was going to say...
 
I wold gather going for an extra $150 is not going to be breaking the bank for peace of mind if its a better system overall.
 
Though there are two post caliming the NFB-3 as better PSU.
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Primarily, NFB3 has a better power supply design for the digital and analog circuit. Whether this translates into improvement worth the cost difference hasn't been established. I'm not aware of a retail DAC that has as much attention paid to power supply in that price range, that's for sure.

NFB2 has a better PSU is what you probably wanted to write

 

[middachten]

Quote:

Whats what I was going to say...
 
I wold gather going for an extra $150 is not going to be breaking the bank for peace of mind if its a better system overall.
 
Though there are two post caliming the NFB-3 as better PSU.

To me its quite clear from the Audio-GD website:

1. the NFB-2 "uses 6 groups of high-quality class A parallel connection PSU with dedicated DC supply." and one linear PSU for the control parts. A well designed discrete PSU can make a big difference over a standard power regulator IC. The 'linear PSU refers to the standard power regulator IC.
2. the NFB-3 only 2 and 5 linear PSU.
3. the NFB-2 uses a C-core transformer and the NFB-3 a toroidal. A C-core is supposed to sound better (I've never tested this personally).
4. the other difference is the use of Wima capacitors instead of evox.

 
The differences are quite easy to see on the side-by-side picture at the bottom of the product page.

 

[Sganzerla]

 Today I tried briefly again, a comparison USB x Coaxial, and found the first a little colder, dry and less extended and dynamic. My NFB-3 has only 50 hours of use yet.
 
 It is changing sound and one thing I can't stop thinking is how huge is the soundstage with my DT880/600. 
 It was already big with Compass as DAC, bigger than my AKG K701 ever was, and now is getting ridiculous. I wonder what the high end Audio-GD gear can do in this area!!!

 
 Have someone used the Digital Interface with this DAC to say something about improvements? I'm seriously thinking of getting one, but it is not clear yet to me the advantages on this low/mid end gear.
 
 

 

[Cya|\|]

Quote:

 Today I tried briefly again, a comparison USB x Coaxial, and found the first a little colder, dry and less extended and dynamic. My NFB-3 has only 50 hours of use yet.
 
 It is changing sound and one thing I can't stop thinking is how huge is the soundstage with my DT880/600. 
 It was already big with Compass as DAC, bigger than my AKG K701 ever was, and now is getting ridiculous. I wonder what the high end Audio-GD gear can do in this area!!!

 
 Have someone used the Digital Interface with this DAC to say something about improvements? I'm seriously thinking of getting one, but it is not clear yet to me the advantages on this low/mid end gear.
 
 

 
That's the same difference I noticed usb vs. coaxial. Not very very easy to notice, but was definitly there: to put it in a nutshell, the usb was colder.
Btw, the more you go on, the more the returns are deminishing, so I'm not very sure the difference between nfb-7 and nfb-3 is as big as the nfb-3 and my internal soundcard auzentech prelude x-fi.
 

 

[pasgod]

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Quote:

 Today I tried briefly again, a comparison USB x Coaxial, and found the first a little colder, dry and less extended and dynamic. My NFB-3 has only 50 hours of use yet.
 
 It is changing sound and one thing I can't stop thinking is how huge is the soundstage with my DT880/600. 
 It was already big with Compass as DAC, bigger than my AKG K701 ever was, and now is getting ridiculous. I wonder what the high end Audio-GD gear can do in this area!!!

 
 Have someone used the Digital Interface with this DAC to say something about improvements? I'm seriously thinking of getting one, but it is not clear yet to me the advantages on this low/mid end gear.
 
 

 
That's the same difference I noticed usb vs. coaxial. Not very very easy to notice, but was definitly there: to put it in a nutshell, the usb was colder.
Btw, the more you go on, the more the returns are deminishing, so I'm not very sure the difference between nfb-7 and nfb-3 is as big as the nfb-3 and my internal soundcard auzentech prelude x-fi.
 

About the diminishing returns, Sganzerla could make a comparison with his PS Audio PerfectWave... I am very interested by dynamic, rhythm, details in low mids, and bass control with NFB 2/3, if you could make a little review.
 
Thanks.
 
Edit : I made a mistake about Sganzerla, he has the PS Audio PerfectWave power cable, not the dac. But, i am still interested by the review.

 

 

[geetarman49]

 
 
does this impression also include depth of field/3-d space and localization of images/instruments? would u be able to provide any sort of impression relative to some dacs with reputedly good 3-d spatial performance like the dacmagic, v-dac or matrix cube?
 
Quote:

 Today I tried briefly again, a comparison USB x Coaxial, and found the first a little colder, dry and less extended and dynamic. My NFB-3 has only 50 hours of use yet.
 
 It is changing sound and one thing I can't stop thinking is how huge is the soundstage with my DT880/600. 
 It was already big with Compass as DAC, bigger than my AKG K701 ever was, and now is getting ridiculous. I wonder what the high end Audio-GD gear can do in this area!!!

 
 Have someone used the Digital Interface with this DAC to say something about improvements? I'm seriously thinking of getting one, but it is not clear yet to me the advantages on this low/mid end gear.
 
 

 
and i'm interested in this as well...
TIA,

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....
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About the diminishing returns, Sganzerla could make a comparison with his PS Audio PerfectWave... I am very interested by dynamic, rhythm, details in low mids, and bass control with NFB 2/3, if you could make a little review.

 
Thanks.
 

 

[ninjikiran]

Ordering it, opted for the NFB-2 rather pay a little more even if the differences are slight.
 
Hmm does this DAC Upsample, or Oversample?

 

[Sganzerla]

 Unfortunately I don't have experience with other DACs in my setup to say anything about them. I remember when I had K701 and my DT880, the AKG having a somewhat flat and wider soundstage, but after the burn in of my DT880 not only it had an even wider soundstage, but it had depth - it was like a semi circle stage, not a flat line left to right. My experience with both headphones is very different from the comparisons I read all over the internet. I appreciate very much the soundstage capabilities of some headphones and I can't find anything that is not working as expected with this DAC upgrade, by the way it is quite opposite, I wasn't expecting this much difference. I tought something like this would come only in much expensive gear.
 
 About my power cable, I'm using an VH Audio Flavor 3 right now in my NFB-3. My PS Audio power cable is on my desktop computer, it is there since some time. One thing I find interesting with AC3 is the "signature" of this cable is the same using it on an headphone amp, DAC or my computer source, something that doesn't happen with other cables I tried and/or own (my other 2 DIY power cables for example). It's qualities show in every area, but the soundstage/instrument separation, smoothness with detail and dynamics and weight are the most appreciated by me. I wish I had more of them but I can't buy anymore from AudioAdvisor, there are lots of fakes on eBay and I just can't find this product line used anywhere (they even became more expensive some months ago!).
 
 Hope this helps, these are my subjective impressions, of course!

 

[ninjikiran]

Ouch looking at the cosignment page they are quite a few days behind Hope I don't get delayed by Chinese New Years.

 

[geetarman49]

thank you for this ... now, must decide between nfb-2, or -3, or go the combo route with the -10.
 
Quote:

 Unfortunately I don't have experience with other DACs in my setup to say anything about them. I remember when I had K701 and my DT880, the AKG having a somewhat flat and wider soundstage, but after the burn in of my DT880 not only it had an even wider soundstage, but it had depth - it was like a semi circle stage, not a flat line left to right. My experience with both headphones is very different from the comparisons I read all over the internet. I appreciate very much the soundstage capabilities of some headphones and I can't find anything that is not working as expected with this DAC upgrade, by the way it is quite opposite, I wasn't expecting this much difference. I tought something like this would come only in much expensive gear.
 
 About my power cable, I'm using an VH Audio Flavor 3 right now in my NFB-3. My PS Audio power cable is on my desktop computer, it is there since some time. One thing I find interesting with AC3 is the "signature" of this cable is the same using it on an headphone amp, DAC or my computer source, something that doesn't happen with other cables I tried and/or own (my other 2 DIY power cables for example). It's qualities show in every area, but the soundstage/instrument separation, smoothness with detail and dynamics and weight are the most appreciated by me. I wish I had more of them but I can't buy anymore from AudioAdvisor, there are lots of fakes on eBay and I just can't find this product line used anywhere (they even became more expensive some months ago!).
 
 Hope this helps, these are my subjective impressions, of course!

 

[ninjikiran]

It hasn't even been a full week and I am already going nuts

 

[wushuliu]

Yeah, I meant the NFB2 has the better PS, not 3... I'm hoping the Wolfson chip being new and SOTA is less dependent on a beefed up regulator stage than older chips.

 

[littletree76]

I am in the same situation as you. I am considering all Audio-GD DAC models below USD 1000 (NFB-1WM, NFB-10WM, NFB-2/NFB-3) built with dual WM8741 DAC and WM8805 receiver to replace existing StageDAC (dual WM8741 / WM8804 receiver). I suppose Audio GD's output stage built with discrete components produces more neutral and natural sound signature than those built with op-amp integrated circuits (designer has perfect control of electrical parameters of the output stage).
 
My considerations are based on some rationales as follows:
 
Power supply implementation:
 
NFB-1WM    -- Discrete x5 / R-Core Transformer x2
NFB-2          -- Discrete x6 / Linear x1 / R-Core Transformer x1
NFB-3          -- Discrete x2 / Linear x5 / Toroidal Transformer x1
NFB-10WM   -- Discrete x7 / R-core Transformer x1
 
NFB-2 has better power supply than NFB-3 as difference between discrete power supply unit and off-the-shelf 3-pin linear voltage regulator (such as LM317) can be quite substantial for audio circuits. All power supply units for NFB-10WM are discrete. NFB-1 has the best power supply implementation as power supply units for logic circuits and analog circuits are completely separated and all supplied by five discrete power supply units through two R-core transformers. So as far as power supply implementation is concerned: NFB-1WM > NFB-10WM > NFB-2 > NFB-3.
 
Digital inputs:
 
NFB-1WM    -- Coaxial / Optical / BNC
NFB-2/3       -- Coaxial / Optical / USB
NFB-10WM  -- Coaxial / Optical / USB
 
For NFB-2/3 and NFB-10WM models, buyer can have customized build with USB input replaced by BNC input but 20 days is required for building and testing. As far as my application is concerned (not involve computer), BNC input is more flexible than USB and it can be supplemented by Audio-GD's Digital Interface or M2Tech's HiFace/Evo to provide much better USB interface than the on-board one.
 
DAC line outputs:
 
NFB-1WM   -- ACSS / XLR / RCA
NFB-2/3      -- ACSS /RCA
NFB-10WM -- ACSS / XLR / RCA
 
If you need two line outputs to power amplifier and external headphone amplifier like me, having both XLR and RCA outputs is more crucial than ACSS output. With ACSS interface, choice of amplifiers are quite limited as far as I know ( mostly those models produced by Audio-GD) though this current interface is much better than voltage interface such as RCA. The balanced XLR output can be converted into unbalanced RCA output easily by shorting negative and shield terminals. Thus NFB-1WM and NFB-10WM provide more flexible line output interfacing than NFB-2/NFB-3. Since NFB-10WM can be used as pre-amplifier with volume control, its XLR and RCA output levels can be made variable by changing jumper position in main PCB board. For DAC line outputs: NFB-10WM > NFB-1WM > NFB-2/3
 
Headphone outputs:
 
NFB-1WM   -- NIL
NFB-2/3      -- NIL
NFB-10WM -- Balanced x1 / Unbalanced x1
 
Both balanced and unbalanced headphone outputs are available on NFB-10WM with 32-step digital volume control (through ADC, relays and banks of resistors). Channel imbalance is kept to minimum and its balanced/unbalanced headphone outputs allow user to have trial of balanced headphone at minimum cost. For headphone outputs: NFB-10WM > NFB-1WM > NFB-2/3
 
After these comparisons, I am leaning toward NFB-10WM for all-in-one solution (good upgrade for FUN/Sparrow owners). But prices for NFB-1WM and NFB-10WM are the same and I am not sure how much sound improvement NFB-1WM has over NFB-10WM. I have to wait for reviews on sound quality for these two new products. Hopefully Kingwa can provide opinions on sound quality of these two models to allow buyers to make early pre-order decisions before end of this month.
 
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thank you for this ... now, must decide between nfb-2, or -3, or go the combo route with the -10.