[zenki14]

Quote:

 
Hi guys,
 
Any comparison between the NFB 10SE and NFB 3.33? Which will give me better sound quality? 10SE or 3.33?
 
Was initially planning to get a NFB 3.33 new, but came across the NFB 10SE second hand in the same price region.
So i thought if the 10SE is a better choice, i might go for it instead.
 
While reading, i read something like the USB module needs to be installed? it doesnt come pre-installed?
I be connecting the dac from my computer, so the usb connectability is quite important..
 
Comp > dac > active speakers (Adam A3X)

 
It would be hard to say which sounds better as the components used are so similar (like the R core transformer and DAC chips), power rating is the same, but the circuit design is different. The 10 series is inteded for balanced while the 3 series goes for single ended.
 
If you don't need XLR balanced outputs, and if you're not going to need the headphone amp section (4-pin XLR balanced and single end), then probably the NFB-3.33 is the choice, as it has the current USB32.
 
The 10SE is a discontinued model which has the old TE7022 for it's USB receiver. I think it can be replaced with the current USB32 module but it means extra money and hassles. I used to have the NFB-10.2 (a minor update after the 10SE which had the TE8802 instead. After this the current 10.32 with USB32 came out) so I know the DAC out and headphone amp section is great, but if you don't need the XLR balanced sections, the NFB-3.33 would be enough, imo.

 

[bruiselee]

 
 
Well, my current speakers do have XLR inputs, just that currently im on essence stx , a soundcard that doesnt offer me XLR output.
If truly i get better sound for going the balanced xlr route, i wouldnt mind getting some cables to hook the 10se up to my speakers via xlr.
Was just thinking if Im getting a "better sounding" product if i got the 10SE, for the same price im paying new for the NFB 3.33..
 
So are u suggesting that, if i dont plan to use the headphone amp, and the balance output to my speakers wont be that much noticeable sounding over RCA, then the NFB3.33 with the newer USB32 chip will sound better?
 
 
 
Quote:

 
It would be hard to say which sounds better as the components used are so similar (like the R core transformer and DAC chips), power rating is the same, but the circuit design is different. The 10 series is inteded for balanced while the 3 series goes for single ended.
 
If you don't need XLR balanced outputs, and if you're not going to need the headphone amp section (4-pin XLR balanced and single end), then probably the NFB-3.33 is the choice, as it has the current USB32.
 
The 10SE is a discontinued model which has the old TE7022 for it's USB receiver. I think it can be replaced with the current USB32 module but it means extra money and hassles. I used to have the NFB-10.2 (a minor update after the 10SE which had the TE8802 instead. After this the current 10.32 with USB32 came out) so I know the DAC out and headphone amp section is great, but if you don't need the XLR balanced sections, the NFB-3.33 would be enough, imo.
 

 

[Clemmaster]

The NFB-3.33 is a DAC only, it has no preamp and no headphone amp.
 
For you active monitors, I'd get the NFB-10SE and buy the USB32 module separately, unless you want to use digital attenuation for controlling volume?
 
As a pure USB DAC, the NFB-3.33 should be (much) better than the NFB-10SE with its original Tenor 7022 chip. The USB32 is VERY good, you should upgrade it right away if you buy the 10SE.

 

[bruiselee]

Quote:

The NFB-3.33 is a DAC only, it has no preamp and no headphone amp.
 
For you active monitors, I'd get the NFB-10SE and buy the USB32 module separately, unless you want to use digital attenuation for controlling volume?
 
As a pure USB DAC, the NFB-3.33 should be (much) better than the NFB-10SE with its original Tenor 7022 chip. The USB32 is VERY good, you should upgrade it right away if you buy the 10SE.

I'm confused as to what u meant..
you say that as a pure USB DAC, the NFB 3.33 should be better than the NFB10SE ,but you would get the NFB10SE and buy the USB32 module if you were in my shoes?
Or with an upgrade to the NFB 10SE Usb chip, it will sound better than the NFB3.33?
 
Currently, I got no intentions to use the preamp and headphone amp, as yeah i can use windows to digitally control the volume, and i'm also able to control the volume via the speakers front knobs.

 

[zenki14]

Quote:

 
Well, my current speakers do have XLR inputs, just that currently im on essence stx , a soundcard that doesnt offer me XLR output.
If truly i get better sound for going the balanced xlr route, i wouldnt mind getting some cables to hook the 10se up to my speakers via xlr.
Was just thinking if Im getting a "better sounding" product if i got the 10SE, for the same price im paying new for the NFB 3.33..
 
So are u suggesting that, if i dont plan to use the headphone amp, and the balance output to my speakers wont be that much noticeable sounding over RCA, then the NFB3.33 with the newer USB32 chip will sound better?

 
I didn't know your speakers had XLR inputs - that changes things.
 
Audio-gd gear tend to sound quite noticeably better via XLR balanced.  I don't know if they do it on purpose but that's the nature, atleast what I experienced.  Balanced sounds more dynamic, wide and clear.  It delivers twice the gain with same power and has less noise (the main advantage of balanced configuration, it eliminates noise) resulting in darker background.  It will drive your speakers better than RCA.
 
I didn't know the USB32 sounds "VERY" good compared to the previous USB receivers like TE7022 but if it is like Clemmaster says, then getting the 10SE and replacing to USB32 inside is probably the way to go.  Hopefully the wiring isn't that difficult though... if it's hard to DIY then perhaps getting a DI-V3S is the easy solution..

 

[Clemmaster]

Quote:

I'm confused as to what u meant..
you say that as a pure USB DAC, the NFB 3.33 should be better than the NFB10SE ,but you would get the NFB10SE and buy the USB32 module if you were in my shoes?
Or with an upgrade to the NFB 10SE Usb chip, it will sound better than the NFB3.33?
 
Currently, I got no intentions to use the preamp and headphone amp, as yeah i can use windows to digitally control the volume, and i'm also able to control the volume via the speakers front knobs.

 
Yep, my comparison was the NFB-3.33 (which comes with the USB32) and the NFB10SE (Tenor 7022) as a USB DAC: the USB32 would make such a big difference than the lower priced NFB-3.33 would sound better in that configuration.
If you get a USB32 module (~$40 w/ shipping) for the NFB10SE, it will then bring its performance to the same level (probably a bit better) as the NFB-3.33.
 
like zenki14 said, since your Adam come with XLR inputs, I'd get the NFB-10.
In addition, it will give you a preamp and headphone amp... and a longer case: 360mm vs 320mm.

 

[bruiselee]

hmm
I'm not good with electronics, with the soldering and wirings, so i believe the USB32 DIY method is out for me, unless i manage to get someone to do it for me..
My soundcard have 1 x S/PDIF out (1 x Optical / Coaxial combo) as output though, am i able to make use of it for the lack of USB32 to attain better sound quality if i cant make the jump to USB32 immediately? Or this Optical route will still sound inferior to the USB32?
 
Another issue I have is that the current used NFB10SE set im looking at is on 120v , but my country uses 230v. So i will need some 230v-110v step down transformer, will this in turn impair the sound quality since it got to do with power,cleanliness etc?.. not too sure about the technical things.
 
The new NFB3.33 with the txco upgrade, paypal fees and shipping will come to a total of $430 usd, while the used NFB10SE will be around $340usd with shipping.
 
The additional cost i have to consider when getting the NFB10SE will be getting the step down transformer , XLR cables at $10/each, $20 for two of them.
 

hard to make a judgement call here on which will overall sound better at its total cost.
a USB32 NFB3.33 or a older tenor usb NFB10SE but with balanced cables setup

 

[Clemmaster]

Quote:

hmm
I'm not good with electronics, with the soldering and wirings, so i believe the USB32 DIY method is out for me, unless i manage to get someone to do it for me..
My soundcard have 1 x S/PDIF out (1 x Optical / Coaxial combo) as output though, am i able to make use of it for the lack of USB32 to attain better sound quality if i cant make the jump to USB32 immediately? Or this Optical route will still sound inferior to the USB32?
 
Another issue I have is that the current used NFB10SE set im looking at is on 120v , but my country uses 230v. So i will need some 230v-110v step down transformer, will this in turn impair the sound quality since it got to do with power,cleanliness etc?.. not too sure about the technical things.
 
The new NFB3.33 with the txco upgrade, paypal fees and shipping will come to a total of $430 usd, while the used NFB10SE will be around $340usd with shipping.
 
The additional cost i have to consider when getting the NFB10SE will be getting the step down transformer , XLR cables at $10/each, $20 for two of them.
 

hard to make a judgement call here on which will overall sound better at its total cost.
a USB32 NFB3.33 or a older tenor usb NFB10SE but with balanced cables setup

 
The optical link will certainly sound (much) worse than a USB32 input (as per my findings on the Squeezebox Touch w/ the NFB-3.1).
IIRC, I quite preferred the Tenor USB input to the S/PDIF with the Squeezebox, even.
 
I tried the NFB-3.1 with the Stello U3 USB-to-S/PDIF converter and It was a different beast than with its own USB module, so, going for the USB32 is much safer (regardless of what DAC you choose in the end).
 
I would ask Kingwa (Audio-GD) about upgrading to the USB-32 module in the NFB-10SE. Maybe you don't need to solder anything?
I think they could even convert the used NFB-10SE to a 230V NFB-10.32, you should ask them. The price would be higher (shipping from/to China) but probably not much higher than a new NFB-3.33.

 

[bruiselee]

Quote:

 
The optical link will certainly sound (much) worse than a USB32 input (as per my findings on the Squeezebox Touch w/ the NFB-3.1).
IIRC, I quite preferred the Tenor USB input to the S/PDIF with the Squeezebox, even.
 
I tried the NFB-3.1 with the Stello U3 USB-to-S/PDIF converter and It was a different beast than with its own USB module, so, going for the USB32 is much safer (regardless of what DAC you choose in the end).
 
I would ask Kingwa (Audio-GD) about upgrading to the USB-32 module in the NFB-10SE. Maybe you don't need to solder anything?
I think they could even convert the used NFB-10SE to a 230V NFB-10.32, you should ask them. The price would be higher (shipping from/to China) but probably not much higher than a new NFB-3.33.

shipping back to audiogd for the 230v conversion and the usb32 module will not be cost friendly.. The shipping from china, I have just checked will cost about $52usd one way for the NFB10SE, to and fro means $104 and this is without the USB32 module. On top of that, purchasing the used NFB10SE set will already set me back $340..
 
So basically I can only compare them as what they are right now.
A NFB10SE with the older tenor usb but with balanced cable vs a NFB3.33 with USB 32.
 
I will drop them a email though, regarding the upgrade for the usb32 module, seeing if it requires soldering on my part...

 

[Clemmaster]

You could ask your seller to ship them to Audio-GD directly to save some dough.

 

[zenki14]

Quote:

 
You could ask your seller to ship them to Audio-GD directly to save some dough.

 
This. I was about to say too... can save shipping once by getting the seller to ship to AGD directly (but make sure AGD accepts this, contact first before everything).
 
I've contacted about 110V-230V conversions before on the R-core transformer and it was just a matter of few soldering.  So this will probably not cost much, but add parts, work for the USB32 replacement, then shipping the modded unit... total $ may end up fairly close to a NFB-17.32.
 
Either way, need to discuss with kingwa..

 

[bruiselee]

Quote:

 
This. I was about to say too... can save shipping once by getting the seller to ship to AGD directly (but make sure AGD accepts this, contact first before everything).
 
I've contacted about 110V-230V conversions before on the R-core transformer and it was just a matter of few soldering.  So this will probably not cost much, but add parts, work for the USB32 replacement, then shipping the modded unit... total $ may end up fairly close to a NFB-17.32.
 
Either way, need to discuss with kingwa..

 
Thats true, shipment and parts and replacement cost, and i might as well just get a brand new 17.32.
 
Oh my god. this is just bursting my initial usd$450 budget

Guess I should save myself all this hassle and just get a NFB3.33?
Being able to use the balanced output sounds sweet, but im sacrificing my ability of the USB32..

 

[Clemmaster]

Quote:

 
Thats true, shipment and parts and replacement cost, and i might as well just get a brand new 17.32.
 
Oh my god. this is just bursting my initial usd$450 budget

Guess I should save myself all this hassle and just get a NFB3.33?
Being able to use the balanced output sounds sweet, but im sacrificing my ability of the USB32..

 
You know that you'd probably have to pay some custom for it, don't you?
 
They never declare full value, but once you factore in the handling fee (which, in France, is close to 20-25€ 

, even for, say, 10€ custom...), this is not to be overlooked.

 

[zenki14]

Quote:

 
Thats true, shipment and parts and replacement cost, and i might as well just get a brand new 17.32.
 
Oh my god. this is just bursting my initial usd$450 budget

Guess I should save myself all this hassle and just get a NFB3.33?
Being able to use the balanced output sounds sweet, but im sacrificing my ability of the USB32..

 
There's actually another balanced DAC I recommend within your budget, the one I use now, although it's not AGD.  It's called the HLLY SMK-III.  Based on burr brown PCM1792 chip, with a powerful R-core transformer and it's actually very good for the price.  Probably the most bang-for-buck balanced DAC right now.  Out of the box it outperforms the Matrix mini-i and Little Dot DAC1 imo, and you can even roll OPamps for further improvements.  Surprisingly the DAC output actually sounds like identical to the NFB-10.2 I had before (that's why I sold it, but now I have the NFB-10ES2 ordered, waiting for delivery).
 
There's a thread too but I would say it's not noticed much:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/509150/new-hlly-smk-iii-digital-audio-decoder
The only obvious downside is it's USB with the TE7022 so you may want to get a DI-V3S with USB32 built in.  And the coax might not support 192K (I don't have high res stuff).
 
DAC output volume is fixed so you need to control volume with your PC or speakers, but it sure is stable and solid sound.  I looked on ebay now but it seems not sold anymore, maybe it's out of production, shame for such a great product... maybe it was too low priced and didn't make enough money to continue.
 
There's one guy in UK selling his on the forums for just 100GBP (if it's still not sold I'm surprised) maybe you might want to contact:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/668026/hlly-smk-iii-dac-eu-uk-perfect-condition

 

[Clemmaster]

I have a DMK-IV from the very same company and I cannot recommand it!
The version version I have is not compatible with materials >48kHz out of any input due to a hardware bug! The unit was advertized as 96kHz read for the S/PDIF inputs.
They made a second revision that fixes that (which sells for $100 more @ $480!)
 
The USB implementation is the worse I heard, with the Emotiva XDA-1 (which, is a fine DAC otherwise).
And there's a bug that make the sound go 100% volume without reason (I almost had a heart attack when it happened!). The Emotiva did suffer the same issue, but new volume control board were sent to me and they fixe that.
 
In terms of sound, it's quite OK but it has a tendency to sound quite bright. It's not in the same league as the NFB-3.33, that's for sure 

 
I never heard the SMK-III, so I cannot comment further on this particular product. The "brand" itself is not worth giving money, though.