[RAZRr1275]

I see. I was thinking just cover the entire display. Also pretty sure warranty is still valid if you break the seal after 30 days, not 1 year. Still, I wouldn't do it though.

Come to think of it, how long did the anomaly lasted? If it's light or electrical interference than it should not lasted for more than a couple milliseconds, so should only be one or two volume steps, unless the circuit can go to a volume setting directly, we just don't have the remote control to fo that.

Gotcha - well I've only had it for 12 days so I'm not going to open it up. Also why I wanted to get this taken care of now because their warranty states that if they do find something I get a brand new unit back.
 
It lasted for the few seconds that it took me to grab the volume knob and turn it down. It didn't stop until I heard the relay click to signal a volume change. Right after the relay clicked everything went back to normal.
 

  The small clicks and pops are totally normal if you're familiar with the volume design that Audio-GD uses. Since it's I/V bases, or current/voltage based. It's relay based volume control... The clicks are the relays working, and the pops are subtle fickers from the changes the relays make and movement of the volume control's mechanical noise. The ragnarok does the same exact thing, yet the relays are even louder. This design is superior to any other design on the market. It allows for volume change without the loss of bit detail. Other setups lose detail as the volume is reduced by reducing bits. I'd love to explain this in a more clear way. But relay based volume control is the best for sound quality.
 
The volume pot part is included when shipped...if this is the problem you speak of. But the relays "clicks" are not the problem. The volume control knob itself has had a small failure rate as new. And some units could be damaged during shipping. Fortunately it's really damn easy to replace. 
 
 

 


Some units might have the plug, some may be hardwired to the control module(screen)
 
Mine is hardwired and covered in black goo. But replacing would be three contacts to attach the wires to the volume control knob (label each accordingly before removal)
but should take about 10min to replace...assuming this was the problem. It's a spin nut that holds it in, and the knob slides right out, but has adhesive to prevent the knob from falling off. some units may have locktite like goo to hold the knob. Pretty typical for volume knobs that do not have the unsightly set screws! haha

Maybe I try this if it happens again after the 30 days that I can't open the case for are up, but I'm not the sort to be happy about working on a product that I spend $2000 on

 

[johnzz4]

The small clicks and pops are totally normal if you're familiar with the volume design that Audio-GD uses. Since it's I/V bases, or current/voltage based. It's relay based volume control... The clicks are the relays working, and the pops are subtle fickers from the changes the relays make and movement of the volume control's mechanical noise. The ragnarok does the same exact thing, yet the relays are even louder. This design is superior to any other design on the market. It allows for volume change without the loss of bit detail. Other setups lose detail as the volume is reduced by reducing bits. I'd love to explain this in a more clear way. But relay based volume control is the best for sound quality.

The volume pot part is included when shipped...if this is the problem you speak of. But the relays "clicks" are not the problem. The volume control knob itself has had a small failure rate as new. And some units could be damaged during shipping. Fortunately it's really damn easy to replace. 







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Some units might have the plug, some may be hardwired to the control module(screen)

Mine is hardwired and covered in black goo. But replacing would be three contacts to attach the wires to the volume control knob (label each accordingly before removal)
but should take about 10min to replace...assuming this was the problem. It's a spin nut that holds it in, and the knob slides right out, but has adhesive to prevent the knob from falling off. some units may have locktite like goo to hold the knob. Pretty typical for volume knobs that do not have the unsightly set screws! haha

I certainly understand the design and why there are clicks and pops when changing the volune. I totally agree that it is superior from a sound quaility perspective. My only criticism is that tgis implementation appears to be sensitive to static discharge... Nothung more. I love the M11. The onlu sound quality qualm I had (sharp high treble) was alleviates with some source tweaks. Excellent unit overall. The jumpy volume is concerning though. Im glad the latest LCD 4 revision that owners are being offered at no cost (new driver) results in less sensitive and higher impedance. This should make the volume jumps less threatening. With the LCD X, the jumps are nothing short of scary..

 

[Khragon]

Let not get emotion get in the way of the troubleshooting, it make sense for Kingwa to understand the problem first before recommending us to send it back.  I don't think he's cheap and doesn't want to pay for the shipping, it's just that if everyone does this in a wimp, he'll be paying heck of a lot of shipping cost for nothing.  It make sense if we were in his shoe, but I think he should make exception to the rule sometime, especially when people hearing is at stake.  All it take is one damage ear to ruin his company credibility.
 
So far, it seems we have 2 maybe 3 reported occurrence of this volume anomaly?  All of them have the same characteristic, sudden volume change, volume always goes up, not down.  What are the build configuration for each? HDMI I2S? default, +3dB, +6dB?
 
I haven't run into this issue of the 3 months that I owned my M11, my configuration is HDMI I2S and +6dB gain.

 

[bimmer100]

  Gotcha - well I've only had it for 12 days so I'm not going to open it up. Also why I wanted to get this taken care of now because their warranty states that if they do find something I get a brand new unit back.
 
It lasted for the few seconds that it took me to grab the volume knob and turn it down. It didn't stop until I heard the relay click to signal a volume change. Right after the relay clicked everything went back to normal.
 
Maybe I try this if it happens again after the 30 days that I can't open the case for are up, but I'm not the sort to be happy about working on a product that I spend $2000 on

 
I highly suggest to just use the volume remote control only. 
 
personally I think i've touched the volume knob about 3-4 times. I am not a fan of reaching over to change volume. Not to mention, it's a mechanical part.
 
if you make a habit of touching the chassis first, you'd discharge any static build up from carpet and your feet..
 
then try changing the volume. that is...if you MUST use the volume knob.
 
 
I've had no issues whatsoever with the m11 while using the remote control exclusively.
 
 
I sit right next to it, but it's more comfy to use the remote. I've never got any noises with the knob other than relays and the occasional super subtle pop noise that sounds like static more-so, but the ragnarok does this and much worse.
 

 

[RAZRr1275]

  Let not get emotion get in the way of the troubleshooting, it make sense for Kingwa to understand the problem first before recommending us to send it back.  I don't think he's cheap and doesn't want to pay for the shipping, it's just that if everyone does this in a wimp, he'll be paying heck of a lot of shipping cost for nothing.  It make sense if we were in his shoe, but I think he should make exception to the rule sometime, especially when people hearing is at stake.  All it take is one damage ear to ruin his company credibility.
 
So far, it seems we have 2 maybe 3 reported occurrence of this volume anomaly?  All of them have the same characteristic, sudden volume change, volume always goes up, not down.  What are the build configuration for each? HDMI I2S? default, +3dB, +6dB?
 
I haven't run into this issue of the 3 months that I owned my M11, my configuration is HDMI I2S and +6dB gain.

That's exactly it. I totally understand it from his perspective but the stance is misguided in the sense that especially with an issue that can cause hearing damage or damage headphones, that's not a good look for him that he won't at least check out one person's unit to see if there's something wrong.
 
3 occurrences. Volume always goes up. Mine has the stock inputs and 6 db gain.

 

[RAZRr1275]

   
I highly suggest to just use the volume remote control only. 
 
personally I think i've touched the volume knob about 3-4 times. I am not a fan of reaching over to change volume. Not to mention, it's a mechanical part.
 
if you make a habit of touching the chassis first, you'd discharge any static build up from carpet and your feet..
 
then try changing the volume. that is...if you MUST use the volume knob.
 
 
I've had no issues whatsoever with the m11 while using the remote control exclusively.
 
 
I sit right next to it, but it's more comfy to use the remote.
 

I don't know why you get this impression that I'm using the volume knob all the time. I normally use the remote. The reason I reached for the knob is that in a situation where my ear hurt from the noise or the stock and I'm sitting right next to the damn thing, it's easier to grab for the volume knob than it is to fumble for the remote and point it at the thing.

 

[bimmer100]

 
I don't know why you get this impression that I'm using the volume knob all the time. I normally use the remote. The reason I reached for the knob is that in a situation where my ear hurt from the noise or the stock and I'm sitting right next to the damn thing, it's easier to grab for the volume knob than it is to fumble for the remote and point it at the thing.

I misunderstood and thought it happened WHEN you where turning the volume knob.
 
 
do you have the 7sec display go dark feature enabled?

 

[bimmer100]

 
If this was any other company than Audio-gd you wouldn't be saying this. Loyalty towards Kingwa is truly astounding.
 
So anyone considering buying Master 11. There is a chance you'll have problems with volume control that could damage your equipment and ears. Those glitches are impossible to reproduce and Kingwa thinks they don't exist. Probably because he hasn't had them happen on him. Sending your equipment back might result you taking $300-500+ hit.
 
You are buying top of the line product from small company but you are not getting customer support to back it up.

Do you have the 7sec display go dark option enabled?

 

[bimmer100]

  When you're turning the volume knob you'll notice small clicks or pops in the headphones.  I'm pretty sure that small electrical discharges is how his volume control is designed to work.  When there's a large impulse (like static discharge), it wreaks havoc with the volume control.  It also makes sense that it only happens in one channel - the channel that the impulse traveled through.  I think all M11s are capable of this but with some of us the stars align -  right headphones, seating (velour or pretty much anything non-leather) and maybe low humidity (everything conducive to static build-up).  I just remain conscious of static and enjoy.  If you're getting paranoid while listening (understandable) and you're using a source like a computer, you can always turn down the source and set your max listening volume to equal 99 on the M11.  This has its own risks like inadvertently turning up your source and the hit to your S/N ratio.  Not an ideal fix but it's not an ideal situation overall.  Unfortunately, I think it's a design issue.  Kingwa may already be aware but isn't keen on recognizing it for what it is since it's not a simple fix and because once one of us shares with the rest of the community that it's a design flaw, the current products employing this volume control design will be looked at as red headed step children (sorry if this describes any of you).  I wouldn't be surprised if he adjusts the design in the future.

Do you have the 7sec display go dark option enabled?

 

[RAZRr1275]

I misunderstood and thought it happened WHEN you where turning the volume knob.


do you have the 7sec display go dark feature enabled?

No it happened randomly out of nowhere without me having any interaction with the unit.

Ive already said no and I will not enable it because opening the unit in the first 30 days voids part of the warranty

 

[bimmer100]

No it happened randomly out of nowhere without me having any interaction with the unit.

Ive already said no and I will not enable it because opening the unit in the first 30 days voids part of the warranty

I'm just trying to find out if the others that had this issue have the 7sec option enabled. Wondering if the possibility of the bright blue lights causing a misreading of signal that causes the volume to change.... Maybe not, I agree it's a long shot and likely it's not the case. But would be interesting to see if the problem only happens if the display is NOT set to "go dark in 7sec"

My m11 is set to go dark.

The fact you experienced it in one channel is my concern. I thing kingwa would be able to find out what is wrong if that is the case. Possibly a component issue.

Call my paranoid, but I've worked with enough electronics to know what emi/rf interference can cause. I ended up installing 3M Ab5050s in all my gear to stabilize any potential issues. Our own cellphones use the same material in it to eliminate noisy IC's from interfering to their neighboring components.

I can post photos again of what I've done, but again, you are set on not opening the unit. One thing I loved about audio-gd is that he doesn't void the warranty if you do. He explains its mainly there for customs. Doesn't want tampering going on. He said the warranty is still valid on my m11 after I opened it along with all the other gear I bought from AGD.

Anyhow, I love DIY and would do this to any gear I buy. And I have! Regardless of price. I'm not an expert, but surely learned a lot from modding gear!

 

[rigo]

  That does make sense. It was with a velour pad. Probably a ow humidity situation. Your response is easing some of my concerns but still my honest opinion on the product is that it's essentially on probation. I like it, I'll continue to use it, this has happened once and I can't replicate it so maybe it doesn't happen again. But until it's been long enough that I can be reasonably convinced that this was simply a random, isolated incident, due to the issue occurring and the nature of the warranty I just can't recommend that anyone buy the product. I do think you may be onto something though. Turning it on today one thing that I noticed is that when using the remote to adjust volume some of the clicks are louder than others (maybe meaning that sometimes there's more discharge than other times?).
 
And bimmer, it's not an issue of no one having the balls to send it in, it's an issue of no one having $300-400 that they're wiling to flush down the drain should kingwa not find a hard to replicate problem. I'm sure most of us just don't have that kind of money to torch without any assurances that we'll get it back.

 
I had the volume spike a couple of weeks into owning the unit and posted about it here. I was also not able to duplicate it and I really didn't know where to start to troubleshoot.  I do have a lot going on in my office - Mac Mini, Master 11, printer, router, monitor, integrated amp, bookshelf speakers, small fridge for drinks.  I have an Emotiva strip (the 2, not 6) and an  APC 15 in the office that my electronics are connected to except for the fridge.  Something Kingwa recommended was to always let it warm up before using it.  I don't think that was a solution but I do make it a habit to turn it on as soon as I get home from work knowing that I will most likely use it later at night.  I leave it on on weekends.  The volume spike has only happened that one time.  
 
Maybe this is something that MAY happen when the unit is brand new?

 

[Khragon]

   
I had the volume spike a couple of weeks into owning the unit and posted about it here. I was also not able to duplicate it and I really didn't know where to start to troubleshoot.  I do have a lot going on in my office - Mac Mini, Master 11, printer, router, monitor, integrated amp, bookshelf speakers, small fridge for drinks.  I have an Emotiva strip (the 2, not 6) and an  APC 15 in the office that my electronics are connected to except for the fridge.  Something Kingwa recommended was to always let it warm up before using it.  I don't think that was a solution but I do make it a habit to turn it on as soon as I get home from work knowing that I will most likely use it later at night.  I leave it on on weekends.  The volume spike has only happened that one time.  
 
Maybe this is something that MAY happen when the unit is brand new?

Do you have the 7sec display go dark feature enabled?

 

[RAZRr1275]

I'm just trying to find out if the others that had this issue have the 7sec option enabled. Wondering if the possibility of the bright blue lights causing a misreading of signal that causes the volume to change.... Maybe not, I agree it's a long shot and likely it's not the case. But would be interesting to see if the problem only happens if the display is NOT set to "go dark in 7sec"

My m11 is set to go dark.

The fact you experienced it in one channel is my concern. I thing kingwa would be able to find out what is wrong if that is the case. Possibly a component issue.

Call my paranoid, but I've worked with enough electronics to know what emi/rf interference can cause. I ended up installing 3M Ab5050s in all my gear to stabilize any potential issues. Our own cellphones use the same material in it to eliminate noisy IC's from interfering to their neighboring components.

I can post photos again of what I've done, but again, you are set on not opening the unit. One thing I loved about audio-gd is that he doesn't void the warranty if you do. He explains its mainly there for customs. Doesn't want tampering going on. He said the warranty is still valid on my m11 after I opened it along with all the other gear I bought from AGD.

Anyhow, I love DIY and would do this to any gear I buy. And I have! Regardless of price. I'm not an expert, but surely learned a lot from modding gear!

 
Bimmer, we've been through this. I understand that you're trying to help but again, your solution to problems with gear is throwing money at them and a lot of it. Mine is getting it fixed and expecting a manufacturer to back their product enough to do so without my paying a cent for it. You're into diy, I'm not and wouldn't have the first idea of what to do if I were to install some gizmo that might fix the problem. In fact, I'd probably break it more, and that would be something breaking due to user error which I firmly agree should void the warranty. It is concerning that it happened in one channel. It's like the volume got sucked out of one side and went to the other. It was progressive. I've told kingwa that it's in his best interest to take a look at this thread. You may not think so, but I'm being as fair as I can be. I will make sure AGD gets the reputation they deserve. If it's a reputation as a company that makes a great product with great support, I will make sure that everything I say indicates that. If it's a reputation of a company that makes a good sounding product but with issues that they don't want to acknowledge/fix without potentially being out of an obscene amount of money, I will mention that every time I talk about the product. What happens next is in kingwa's hands. Not yours. Not mine. His. It's his play.

   
I had the volume spike a couple of weeks into owning the unit and posted about it here. I was also not able to duplicate it and I really didn't know where to start to troubleshoot.  I do have a lot going on in my office - Mac Mini, Master 11, printer, router, monitor, integrated amp, bookshelf speakers, small fridge for drinks.  I have an Emotiva strip (the 2, not 6) and an  APC 15 in the office that my electronics are connected to except for the fridge.  Something Kingwa recommended was to always let it warm up before using it.  I don't think that was a solution but I do make it a habit to turn it on as soon as I get home from work knowing that I will most likely use it later at night.  I leave it on on weekends.  The volume spike has only happened that one time.  
 
Maybe this is something that MAY happen when the unit is brand new?

That's not it as it was on for at least 6 hours before it happened.

 

[rigo]

Do you have the 7sec display go dark option enabled?

I do but the jumper was added after the fact.