Thanks gh2013. I looked up for sonos. It is an interesting solution. I need to do more research. I was offered an advice from many people to Raspberry Pi to play Flac files? Does anyone have any opinion about it and how would it play with Master 11? Maybe it is better if I ask for a feedback about Raspberry Pi and Master 11 in seperat thread
The Raspberry Pi could be a good solution. It does require DIY skills. Power supply is extremely important. For best solution you should use the I2S output form Raspberry Pi. But even this is not as good as a real good streamer. The issue is the audio clocks are derived from the computer masters clock. The Sonos solution works different, they only need one audio clock and this makes it relatively less complex in design. It is kind of a coincidence because Magna Hifi is investigating an high-end streamer based on Raspberry Pi but in a way the audio clocks are not derived from the computer clock but will put the Raspberry in slave mode. This looks very promising and I am on their list for demo when ready.
Anyway....a Raspberry Pi: Very nice if you like DIY. Seems cheap but in the end if you want something good it won't be cheaper per se than a very good streamer like an Ultimo.
I've been looking at Kingwa's Audio-gd homepage and it seems to be a new NOS11 that appears AFAIK a slight improvement over the Master11. I've tied to read the description of this new product, but since I'm a real noob at electronics and Kingwa's English is somewhat special...
Does anybody have more info regarding this new amp/dac?
I've been looking at Kingwa's Audio-gd homepage and it seems to be a new NOS11 that appears AFAIK a slight improvement over the Master11. I've tied to read the description of this new product, but since I'm a real noob at electronics and Kingwa's English is somewhat special...
Does anybody have more info regarding this new amp/dac?
Sorry to go a bit off-topic in my previous reply.
Technically the NOS 11 is not an upgrade or improvement compared to Master 11. They just sound different.
My understanding so far: NOS 11 has a typical "NOS" sound characteristic, whereas the M11 wins on neutrality.
Depending on your preference you select one or the other.
This is my understanding. I am curious though to listen to the NOS-11.
With the Master 11 you can select NOS mode too with M11NOS you're always going to be in NOS. I imagine there are some differences, but they are likely going to be subtle.
Sorry to go a bit off-topic in my previous reply. Technically the NOS 11 is not an upgrade or improvement compared to Master 11. They just sound different.
My understanding so far: NOS 11 has a typical "NOS" sound characteristic, whereas the M11 wins on neutrality.
Depending on your preference you select one or the other.
This is my understanding. I am curious though to listen to the NOS-11.
It is. I finally introduces FIFO re-clocking, which could make a significant different with less than stellar sources (which is: most of them, especially the SPDif inputs).
The great "Audio Processors" (read: DACs) from the golden era (mid 90s) had way more advanced SPDif receivers than *most* modern DACs and it really makes a difference. Like the Mark Levinson or Proceed AVP - featuring FIFO re-clocking - sound great with just about anything, even a Chromecast through TOSLink. Do the same with any Audio-gd DAC ... you'd cry.
It is. I finally introduces FIFO re-clocking, which could make a significant different with less than stellar sources (which is: most of them, especially the SPDif inputs).
The great "Audio Processors" (read: DACs) from the golden era (mid 90s) had way more advanced SPDif receivers than *most* modern DACs and it really makes a difference. Like the Mark Levinson or Proceed AVP - featuring FIFO re-clocking - sound great with just about anything, even a Chromecast through TOSLink. Do the same with any Audio-gd DAC ... you'd cry.
You are right. Connecting a cheap source (Chromecast through Toslink) will sound better on a FiFO re-clocked system. However If your incoming jitter is less than threshold, then the asynchronous rounding fifo process actually makes the audio worse because the additional master clock (in NOS 11) is continuously rounding out the digital audio stream from its source.
Therefore you can't say which one is or sounds "better". It very much depends on the source you are connecting AND what type of sound you prefer. From what I understand so far the NOS mode on Master 11 still does sound quite "neutral" compared to the NOS 11 which will have a "NOS style" way of presentation. (How the 2 will compare and what it exactly means we don't know yet!)
I guess we are all curious how the NOS 11 will compare to Master 11 (in NOS mode) and I am looking forward to the demo Magna Hifi present in a few weeks. I will report back my findings...
The only instances where the Master-7 (or 11) sounds good is using the I2S or (newer) USB inputs. They both require that the source is fully "figured out" (read, *very* well implemented). It is quite hard and expensive to get a good USB output from a computer, unless it's specifically designed for USB audio (-> expensive).
There are external way to improve the USB link between the source and DAC:
- USB reclocker / decrapyfier: UpTone Regen, W4s Recovery, Schiit Wyrd (which didn't do anything for me).
- Galvanic isolation: Intona Isolator
I have 2 Regens and the Intona and they sure do greatly improve the USB connection. But it's another ~$200-250 for each + extra USB cables. You still need to have the SMPS crap figured out and getting a filter or LPSU will add to the total cost, again.
With a FIFO however, you really don't need to mess with anything but input noise from the digital source. It's really a clever use of what was already there and suited for the job: the FPGA.
Now, the Cyclone II might be too small to host both the FIFO and interpolation algorithm. We might expect to see updated Master-x with a beefier FPGA to do just that.
The only instances where the Master-7 (or 11) sounds good is using the I2S or (newer) USB inputs. They both require that the source is fully "figured out" (read, *very* well implemented). It is quite hard and expensive to get a good USB output from a computer, unless it's specifically designed for USB audio (-> expensive).
There are external way to improve the USB link between the source and DAC:
- USB reclocker / decrapyfier: UpTone Regen, W4s Recovery, Schiit Wyrd (which didn't do anything for me).
- Galvanic isolation: Intona Isolator
I have 2 Regens and the Intona and they sure do greatly improve the USB connection. But it's another ~$200-250 for each + extra USB cables. You still need to have the SMPS crap figured out and getting a filter or LPSU will add to the total cost, again.
With a FIFO however, you really don't need to mess with anything but input noise from the digital source. It's really a clever use of what was already there and suited for the job: the FPGA.
Now, the Cyclone II might be too small to host both the FIFO and interpolation algorithm. We might expect to see updated Master-x with a beefier FPGA to do just that.
I got the feeling we share the same thoughts and agree with you a fully "figured out" source is important. The better the source, the better the Master 11 / 7 will be.
The galvanic isolation is interesting. I would expect this brings jitter to the circuit and isn't important if you have no issues with ground loops.
FIFO can be a real good thing and makes it almost source independent but again if you have a fully "figured out" source you can achieve similar or maybe even better results.
The SPDIF source I am using is really good and performs as good as the USB reclocker I used for a while. (Yes compared also with latest Amanero USB on Audio-GD)
Improvements will happen, sure, but even without I haven't experienced a dac performing so well and it is first time I am not bored after few months of listening. Now I want to listen to the NOS series!
Does anybody have any experience of the benefits, if any, of power cord upgrades with the Master-11? Does it scale well with say 9-11 AWG silver power cables, or not much difference?
Does anybody have any experience of the benefits, if any, of power cord upgrades with the Master-11? Does it scale well with say 9-11 AWG silver power cables, or not much difference?
I bought a Pangea AC 9 MKII for $99.00. Don't buy it. You can barely bend it. I believe Kingawa said to try a better cord, so I did. The Pangea made a big difference with my Sennheiser HDVD800 amp. Not as much with the Master11. But I do use it to power my Master 11. The Master 11 feels more Solid with better edges separating the instruments. The Pangea AC 14 MKII is a better choice and only $50.00 if you want to play with power cables. I am using Supra cable from Sweden for Power and USB and Optical connections.
There may be better things to spend your money on. The first time I was looking at all the fun Power Options, I solved the problem by purchasing a set of Fostex TH900's.
Just received it today warming up those femto clocks.
First impression, DAC is pretty good, very clear. Amp, just OK. The M11 amp is markedly better than Vi DAC built in amp. This is not unexpected as the M11 is a fully discrete design vs op amps on the Vi. The music is more coherent, with better instruments separation on the M11, more enjoyable on the M11. All these with Vi DAC as DAC and the HEK.
*Edit*
Quick DAC comparisons between the Vi and M11 shows just how sweet R2R DAC can be with vocals.. really natural on the M11, so beautiful. The Vi though is so clear with the instrumentation, M11 sounds slow and "stretched" out (only compares to the Vi). I want these two to make baby, one with the Vi instrumentation clarity and M11 mid-range sweetness.
Who's ever on the fence about M11 and listens to vocals, it's really is end game, from here on it's just preferences. M11's amp is top notch.
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