[DACLadder]

MSB has revamped its product line. The Analog DAC is obsolete. The cheapest MSB DAC now is the Discrete DAC at $9,995.00. Base power supply and only Toslink/ SPDIF input. Their best power supply boosts base price up to $17k+. Adding USB adds another $2k+.

So for $20k it better sound good! And the bottom end the Discrete DAC is single ended (like the Analog DAC). MSB balanced DACs start at $20k and add another $10k for best power supply and USB input.

And MSB states that ProUSB module is capable of 1km distance between the USB module and the DAC. I don't know how that works when you plug the module into the DAC. My PC is not capable of driving USB for 1km. Am I missing a point?
"-Virtually limitless in cable lengths (up to 1km) between the USB module and the DAC"

 

[Wynnytsky]

@DACLadder
The new lineup is fully balanced but the "Discrete" model doesn't have the power supply and the "Premier" model doesn't have the preamp. For that you have to step up to the "Reference" ($40k). My friend grabbed a mint demo model of the obsolete single-ended version (w/ power supply, preamp, new usb module, new coax module) for 5500 (less than my preamp). My amps are also single ended so hearing them hooked up together (no preamp, no usb interface) was really impressive.

 

[marcelnl]

I'd like to see the inside of that PSU out of sheer curiosity, at that price point I'd expect extremely exotic parts in their power supplies (and I DO know how cost price of the BOM works out in final retail prices)....one would expect Fahrad's worth of silver mica caps, silver wound power trannies etc. It's not that as if a DAC needs that much power or runs at weird voltages.

 

[DACLadder]

Ok thanks... For pricing I’m only going by this website. I am no expert. They have 3 power supply options and do not see AC jack on the rear of the chassis. You are correct about balanced and no preamp with Discrete vs. Analog DAC.
https://almaaudio.com/products/msb-discrete-dac

 

[Wynnytsky]

@marcelnl

old model uses one umbilical cord

new one has two!

 

[sajunky]

And MSB states that ProUSB module is capable of 1km distance between the USB module and the DAC. I don't know how that works when you plug the module into the DAC. My PC is not capable of driving USB for 1km. Am I missing a point?
"-Virtually limitless in cable lengths (up to 1km) between the USB module and the DAC"

According to what I read, there are three components: USB dongle you plug into PC USB port, then a proprietary optical cable and a receiver module on the DAC. Unlike a standard S/PDIF, there is two-way link between DAC and USB dongle, so a dongle is pulling data from USB port synchronously with a DAC clock. Similar solution to a world clock, but integrated in a single link.

To make it on-topic, I think it is a briliant idea. I suggest Kingwa to make something similar. It shouldn't be difficult to do, as standard SFP fiber network interface chips have bi-directional transfer, can be re-used. It can be cheap like this: https://www.takealot.com/tp-link-gigabit-sfp-media-converter/PLID28719935

 

[marcelnl]

@Wynnytsky : looks nicely machined from Aluminium but made with regular components. A solid balanced PSU with what appears to be one tranny dedicated to each power line, nicely done but at a pretty hefty price...

 

[Wynnytsky]

@marcelnl
The only affordable brand I know that starts from a block of aluminum like that is Matrix. My friend likes using their USB interface with the MSB.

@sajunky
(while on the topic of optical)
EMM put their proprietary "Optilink" connection on both their DAC and streamer. It's just a single 62.5/125 multimode fiber cable, but with the twist-lock terminals ...

 

[marcelnl]

@Wynnytsky ; I would personally stay away from Aluminium designing a DAC or Amp. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE how ot looks and feels when components are solidly machined, I just like the sound better sans metal.

LOL, that proprietary interlink looks like something I'm using since the late 90-ies, dual carriage optical interface, think I even have a now obsolete RS232 type interface for it lying around...biggest drawback- yet another conversion taking place.... biggest advantage -immune for high freq EMI and galvanic isolation...yet for audio?

 

[DACLadder]

MSB ProUSB makes sense now. External USB to optical fiber. You need a ProISL fiber module in the DAC. Thanks!

 

[Jackula]

From your description @Wynnytsky the Analog sounds like a more truthful version of the Discrete DAC. While I haven't listened to the older MSB DACs (i.e. Analog), the sound of the newer MSB Analog and Reference are voiced towards smoothness and pleasantness, than a more truthful and drier sounding DAC like the R7/HE. It's another reason why I preferred the old 4.07b1 firmware (I'm the only one on this forum, but at least Kingwa shares the same opinion). I find the drier the sound, the more visceral the textures and expressiveness!

 

[FredA]

What an incredible device! It passes transparently all USB data formats giving galvanic isolation and transfer data over kilometer distance!

I like it very much. However I must say that Amanero in a form how it is sold on their website does the best as an universal USB decoder. An A-GD version is customised, I don't know how is modified. Ask Kingwa whether and how Amanero clock is synchronised with system clock.

In the di20, the FPGA on the clean side provides the needed clock signals to the costumized amanero (dirty side) . The clock signal path has gavanic isolation, same for audio data. So the clean side is kept as clean as possible. Hence the usb audio data is simply clocked (not reclocked) so jitter is very low.

The audio-gd dac do not have this neat design. But perhaps in the future they will.

 

[Wynnytsky]

@Jackula
wow the R7HE makes the discrete DAC sound warm? Sounds like the R7HE is for me!

The Analog dac was super transparent+fast with very low ring like a 9038pro, but when you play a high pitch passage louder than it ought to be, I was somehow spared that moment of cringing fatigue.

I find the drier the sound, the more visceral the textures and expressiveness!

exactly - and for me 4.075 delivers in that respect

Shouldn't covid inflate the demand (and price) of hifi the way it did bicycles? The audio elves should be at 100% utilization this season.

 

[sajunky]

In the di20, the FPGA on the clean side provides the needed clock signals to the costumized amanero (dirty side) . The clock signal path has gavanic isolation, same for audio data. So the clean side is kept as clean as possible. Hence the usb audio data is simply clocked (not reclocked) so jitter is very low.

The audio-gd dac do not have this neat design. But perhaps in the future they will.

That's great. I noticed that there is no clock upgrade option for the Amanero module (while it is for DACs), but I didn't understand fully this:

8, The USB inteface and FPGA processor have applied the same clocks for avoid the different clocks effect the sound quality .

It is why I wrote this message - wasn't not 100% sure. Now is clear, thank you.

 

[DACLadder]

@Wynnytsky You need to compare to the latest R7 series. The V1 DAC modules on the R2R 7 are not the best that Kingwa offers today. Agree with Jackula that the Analog DAC is smooth and does render vocals/ highs very well. The V1 DAC boards would be harsh and glaring in comparison. And since you mention tweeters quite often I think you and your ears would be very surprised.

I would even put my heavily tweaked M7S (+DI-20HE) up against the Analog DAC. Would be fun to compare again.