[gilency]

I have both the Earth and Moon . Agree with above descriptions but be aware the changes are there but not huge. I have also experimented with the soft,bright and neutral settings. It is nice to be able to tweak the sound. I ended up with the Earth in neutral settings. Good value for your money.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

The Burson guys are doing the old middleman markup routine much like a dealer who gets his gear wholesale from the manufacturer and then marks it's up 100% to sell retail at a MSRP....go to the source (Kingwa) and pay 1/4 the cost for practically the same thing is my advice. I've gone through all of the versions of HDAM including the original that cost a whopping 80US....the new and the old versions have the same attributes sonically speaking (comparing the original rev 1 HDAM which is the same as the first gen Burson).

If your running a tube amp it's likely the SUN V2 and the Earth modules would be a better fit but it also depends on the tubes you use (various NOS combinations will produce different sound sigs of course). The Moon module is a lot like a warm tube sound (think SET or single ended triode) with slightly rolled off highs and a hair thicker mid bass region with a softer bottom end control wise. I disagree about the Moon having more bass than the Earth...the Earth has more bass extension but without the slight mid bass hump. It'll give the illusion of more bass when in fact you are just hearing a narrow freq band boost with the Moon module. Compare freq sweeps (16hz -120 hz) and you'll see what I mean...

The SUN V2 is eq'd like a smile (boosted highs and lows but subtle in nature). It's an acquired taste IMO and is definitely not a good fit with bright cans (Grado etc) but many find it lively and involving which is A-OK with me

That being said the bright/neutral/soft settings can further shape the outcome adding another dimension to the mix.

Peete.

 

[arcer63]

I prefer the moon in neutral w/ my grado hf-2s and etymotic er-4s. I did not get to experimenting that much with the various jumpers while using the earth, i just know that I didnt think it sounded as good when the earth was in neutral with these headphones.

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Burson guys are doing the old middleman markup routine much like a dealer who gets his gear wholesale from the manufacturer and then marks it's up 100% to sell retail at a MSRP....go to the source (Kingwa) and pay 1/4 the cost for practically the same thing is my advice.

except that the new burson and Earth sound radically different! and Burson says that Kingwa is selling counterfeits of their design...we'll never know the truth, but the new burson is a hell less distorted than Earth, and yes, I've heard it together w/ the 3 A-GD chips...and yes, I've done several A/B between the new burson and Earth.

there's been some RMAA measurements of the A-GD parts here: RightMark Audio Analyzer test: comparison

I found Moon so distorted that it was useless(these RMAA graphs concur), Sun-V2 is lacking some tonal nuances(as majkel said, I found it unbearable...like if I had become half-deaf

) and Earth was nice, but too distorted. the new burson is Earth w/ a clearer sound basically.

discrete is not always better anyway, I've done several comparisons w/ the AD797B....now, that's a nice sounding IC!

it's more detailed and far more versatile than a burson(and cheaper too), *BUT* PRaT is lower and it's a tad less involving...tough call!

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif except that the new burson and Earth sound radically different! and Burson says that Kingwa is selling counterfeits of their design...we'll never know the truth, but the new burson is a hell less distorted than Earth, and yes, I've heard it together w/ the 3 A-GD chips...and yes, I've done several A/B between the new burson and Earth.

I'm sure a pissing contest about who stole whose designs could get ugly.

Quote:

there's been some RMAA measurements of the A-GD parts here: RightMark Audio Analyzer test: comparison I found Moon so distorted that it was useless(these RMAA graphs concur), Sun-V2 is lacking some tonal nuances(as majkel said, I found it unbearable...like if I had become half-deaf ) and Earth was nice, but too distorted. the new burson is Earth w/ a clearer sound basically. discrete is not always better anyway, I've done several comparisons w/ the AD797B....now, that's a nice sounding IC! it's more detailed and far more versatile than a burson(and cheaper too), *BUT* PRaT is lower and it's a tad less involving...tough call!

Could you explain in more detail how those graphs correlate to what you hear? What's odd to me is that they all measure flat, essentially (the roll-off in the graphs must be in the DAC used), yet tonally sound somewhat different.

 

[leeperry]

I understand Kingwa is very much tied to head-fi...but that's what Burson says about this story:
Quote:

The Audiogd opamps are counterfeits of our design. Unfortunately, many audiophiles fall for their lies because they are cheap and look “similar” to our opamps. However, like all things in life, it’s the stuff that our customers don’t see that makes a difference. Our opamps go through a very strict component selection, component matching and tuning process that ensures their quality and stability. They are covered by a life time of replacement warranty. Our opamps have near zero DC offset which is very important for music reproduction. Studios select our opamp for this very reason. Poorly built discrete opamps often have very high DC offset that can either damage the equipment immediately or over the long run.

and, strangely, all the ppl who believe Kingwa's story(which -funnily enough- is only hearsay) never tried the new burson...I've compared all those chips, none of them can touch the new burson. Now, whether the old burson is 100% identical to Earth is another story altogether, maybe someday Kingwa will come up w/ an Earth V2

Moon sounded REALLY ugly for me...going from Earth to Moon was like going from a killer hifi set to a cheap AM car stereo...so distorted!

Well, the stereo xtalk and dynamic range graphs are severely messed up on the Moon, don't you think? It doesn't tell the whole story, but 70 dB of xtalk is not that good...

I know some ppl have measured 60dB of xtalk on a Prodigy HD2 modded w/ 3 bursons...so xtalk is not where these chips shine ANYWAY. Listen to the AD797B, and you'll get all this...but not the warmish/pleasant sound of these chips, compromises need to be made. again.

All I'm saying is that before bashing burson and calling them hacks, listen to the new burson..it definitely *ISN'T* a rebadged Earth.

and Mundorf also had some issues w/ chinese makers saying they were doing OEM for them, it's common practice: MUNDORF - Rumors on OEM products

 

[thelsuman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jdmhood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks again for the info. I think i'll stick with the Earth for the time being and try the moon/ sun later on down the road. 3 Sound signatures with one DAC = fun ^_^. Also, if any one have prior experience.. how difficult is it to change the HDAM on the compass?

Actually, FWIW, I strongly prefer the Earth over Sun & Moon modules. The sound seems "cleaner" to my ears somehow. Switching the HDAMs is so easy even I could do it

You just need a phillips screwdriver to loosen the ground wire- then the module pops right out. Be careful not to bend the wires when inserting the HDAM & make sure the HDAM is oriented correctly & you're set!

 

[Necrolic]

General opinion seems to be that Earth is the best all around of the 3 HDAMs.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif and, strangely, all the ppl who believe Kingwa's story(which -funnily enough- is only hearsay)

Erm, Burson re-sold Audio-gd products under their own name, and now re-sell the same products made by a different Chinese company. Counterfeiting his own design? Though I don't know the exact origins of the Earth/original Burson, the Sun and Moon at least are Kingwa's own designs. Something else worth adding: Before the Phoenix, I (and I think other people) asked him about building a Beta 22. He replied that he didn't want to make other people's designs, but make his own. Does this sound like a stereotypical Chinese "well just copy someone else's design and sell is as ours" company? Now I have no idea about what contractual arrangements there were with Burson, but it's easy to just say "Oh, such-and-such Chinese guy ripped off my designs" and people will just nod their head and take it as given without question, because we're so used to seeing Chinese people rip off legitimate companies and they can't sue easily sue people overseas who slander them. However, I don't think it's appropriate that you bring what amounts to libel into Head-fi in this manner. I've asked Kingwa about Burson and his story is different, but just as I've pointed out, I don't think it's my, or anyone else's place to post stuff about it all over the forums, unless one has clear proof of someone ripping others off in a major way which affects the community.

Anyway, for the cost of a Burson HDAM, it'd be more worth putting the money towards better gear if it's just for use in a cheap amp or DAC IMO. In some old, high-end DACs it might be worth it (It would be interesting to try, say, with, say, an Assemblage DAC 3 for example). As for the graphs, you still haven't answered my question: How do they correlate to what you say you've been hearing? I really don't understand and am hoping you would explain. The closest I can guess at is that the stereo crosstalk graph for the Moon correlates to its seemingly recessed mids/stronger bass and treble.

 

[leeperry]

hey Currawong, all I'm saying is that many ppl diss Burson for selling rebadged stuff...well, I don't know(nor care as I have no commercial interest in either companies)...but YOU and others keep saying that Kingwa was doing OEM for burson, well...proofs my dear? where are they? A-GD cannot state it clearly on their website, I wonder why?

did you compare the new burson to Earth before calling them hacks? I guess you didn't, as you would quickly realize that the new burson sounds *MILES* better than Earth. You bought that killer second-hand TWcu cable from me for your HD800, and yet you're using OPA-Moon in your audio path? I'm seeing some major contradiction here

Tell you what...keep using Audio-GD inferior parts(that are a major waste of money in my book), and keep thinking that Burson sells the exact same parts for a huge mark up...I'm cool w/ that! no hard feelings please, we're just casual users sharing real world experiences...neither you or I have financial interests in those chips, it's all just a big game to get the highest SQ we all crave for

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif hey Currawong, all I'm saying is that many ppl diss Burson for selling rebadged stuff...well, I don't know(nor care as I have no commercial interest in either companies)...but YOU and others keep saying that Kingwa was doing OEM for burson, well...proofs my dear? where are they? A-GD cannot state it clearly on their website, I wonder why?

Kingwa said it. Why don't you ask Burson who their OEM was before? You can google the Audio-gd Buffer and the Burson Buffer and find the online reviews of the original model and compare both. They are the same thing. Here's one set of pics from here, and the 6-moons pics. Audio-gd's site is down atm but they don't remove the old pages, so you should still be able to find the internal pictures easily.

Quote:

did you compare the new burson to Earth before calling them hacks? I guess you didn't, as you would quickly realize that the new burson sounds *MILES* better than Earth. You bought that killer second-hand TWcu cable from me for your HD800, and yet you're using OPA-Moon in your audio path? I'm seeing some major contradiction here

I didn't call them anything, just pointed out what I know. Anyway, I don't care because I don't use anything with a HDAM in it any longer. I have nothing against people reselling other people's gear if that works for them.

Quote:

Tell you what...keep using Audio-GD inferior parts(that are a major waste of money in my book), and keep thinking that Burson sells the exact same parts for a huge mark up...I'm cool w/ that! no hard feelings please, we're just casual users sharing real world experiences...neither you or I have financial interests in those chips, it's all just a big game to get the highest SQ we all crave for

Indeed, that's why I asking you to clarify what in the graphs correlates with your opinions on both as I'm actually interested in being able to correlate measurements with impressions, as that's actually useful.

 

[leeperry]

hehe ok, point taken. yet, the new burson doesn't come from A-GD, and sounds miles better than Earth...this I can attest, I've compared all those chips w/ my own ears on many occasions. Earth was utterly distorted in comparison to the new Burson, It's time Kingwa makes an Earth V2 if he wants to stay in the competition

well, the graphs look severely messed up for Moon...don't you think? the xtalk goes up the roof in the low end, and so does the dynamic range...it might be lower than audibility level, but it's not normal to have such messed up V-Shaped graphs. I understand it's said to have a tubey-sound, but all it did for me was sounding like a cheap AM car stereo.

Pretty much all the companies get their stuff made in China these days, we all know the reasons

 

[les_garten]

I have 2 OPAs. One from a Mod'd Zero. The seller who sold it said the OPA was a Burson. I have an A-GD Earth. They are identical except for the color of the PCBs. The new Single board Burson's obviously are a little different.

 

[Mad Max]

Ungrounded Sun sounds like a brighter Earth with tighter bass that has slightly less punch and little bit stronger vocals. If you connect the ground wire, it then has greater energy, detail, and is more dynamic with the subtle bass/treble boost.
Ungrounded Sun is my favorite with SR325is. =D

Screw Moon =\

 

[K3cT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif hey Currawong, all I'm saying is that many ppl diss Burson for selling rebadged stuff...well, I don't know(nor care as I have no commercial interest in either companies)...but YOU and others keep saying that Kingwa was doing OEM for burson, well...proofs my dear? where are they? A-GD cannot state it clearly on their website, I wonder why? did you compare the new burson to Earth before calling them hacks? I guess you didn't, as you would quickly realize that the new burson sounds *MILES* better than Earth. You bought that killer second-hand TWcu cable from me for your HD800, and yet you're using OPA-Moon in your audio path? I'm seeing some major contradiction here Tell you what...keep using Audio-GD inferior parts(that are a major waste of money in my book), and keep thinking that Burson sells the exact same parts for a huge mark up...I'm cool w/ that! no hard feelings please, we're just casual users sharing real world experiences...neither you or I have financial interests in those chips, it's all just a big game to get the highest SQ we all crave for

Funny, the other day you said that the A-GD modules are the best evah and now you say they are crap. With the way you keep changing your mind I doubt anyone will take you seriously.

Some select quotes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif ahhhhhhhhhhhh, 2*LT1213 + Earth = when I read ppl saying that some IC's can sound better than Earth as buffer, I think they really need to try them in other designs.. everything's miiiiiiiiiiiiiles better, SS, details, separation...use a discrete for 1 week, then put back your favorite IC...it won't stay long, I can tell you that

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif hummm I thought going discrete would stop this rolling frenzy...but I'm now looking for the best ones to feed the Earth Earth brings fantastic bass, balanced mids/trebles and very clear SS...all the layers are nicely laid off like cards on a table, so get some good cards in the first place...and you're in! LT1213 is great stuff...definitely a LM4562/49720 killer, it does everything the same...just better in every aspect. "you may not be able to fight like a samurai, but you can at least die like a samurai" the 24bit TrueHD track of "Up" sounds amazing on the 1213+Earth combo...such a wide and clear SS

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif wow, Sun V2 is really amazing...it's just very clear and clean, perfect synergy on the AK4396 output w/ Earth as final buffer can't wait to try replacing the Earth by a new burson...anyway, discrete is the way it does a much more natural post-DAC filtering than the LT1364...which sounds bright/distorted and mono in comparison(yes I've switched a bunch of times). I've installed the wires in a neater way too: