[329161]

And that is why you no longer have the Sine and decided on the PM-3 over the Sine. Enjoy your hp's! More are enjoying the SIne than aren't. I am in the I am enjoying them side. I drive mine with an HTC 10 perfectly and they sound awesome. I purchased mine without an audition and this one worked out for me. I have never auditioned any of the headphones in my profile, just purchased. Like all hp's I have owned the Sine's have fault, I wish they were a touch more comfortable(they aren't bad though). The sound signature is the key and if it works for you great, if it doesn't great. Some sound signatures agree with some but not others, ie... the PM-3 was one of the most boring lackluster sound signatures I have heard. I wanted to like them, had them three times, bought the first and sold them, I had one faulty unit I had to return, and got them again wishing to like them, it just didn't happen. I think a portable, means ability to use in all environments, needs solid controlled bass to maintain their sound signature in outdoor noise, and the PM-3 is far from any thing that resembled solid bass. Judging from the hp's in your profile you enjoy a a looser bass sound with the exception of the PM-3. The Sine are controlled and it just doesn't agree with some folks, but then again I have never seen a product that EVERYONE liked. 

Like I said, quite a few people here had a negative view of the Sines. At $699 aud, I really wouldn't advise a purchase, in Australia anyway, where we generally can't return products on a change of mind, without auditioning them first. I'm just trying to prevent people from making an expensive mistake. If you love them, great. I hope everyone does. But the views here have been mixed, so it's a risk.
On your comment about my headphones- everyone's idea of "loose bass" is different. I would consider the only hp I have like this is the Sony 1a. The Pm3 bass I find lazer sharp. Btw, I bought the 1a without auditioning them because of early bird hype here on Headfi.
Your point that some sound signatures agree with some and not others is true, and obvious. This is precisely why people shouldn't shell out big bucks on the basis of a few enthusiastic reviews. Try for yourself first, this would be my advice with regard to ANY expensive audio gear purchase.

 

[inthere]

I think Head Fiers are a bit jaded, the Sine is a sensational sounding headphone, period. Everyone that I've let hear these things freaks out.......reactions like "OMG WOW!" are the norm. 
 
I even think the comfort issue is overblown..........these things are NOT like a crown of thorns. Yes a few guys are sensitive to their build but come on, that happens with just about every headphone. The Sine is not super heavy so discomfort is only going to happen in a few cases. I wear these things all day without issue.

 

[brent75]

Agree. The "reviews are mixed at best" and "I'm trying to prevent people from making an expensive mistake" tidbits are curious. If anything, I think the Sine is a tremendous bargain. I originally had $700 into the PM-3 + HA-2...now I have a better sound out of the Sine + Cipher for $200 less.

 

[subguy812]

Like I said, quite a few people here had a negative view of the Sines. At $699 aud, I really wouldn't advise a purchase, in Australia anyway, where we generally can't return products on a change of mind, without auditioning them first. I'm just trying to prevent people from making an expensive mistake. If you love them, great. I hope everyone does. But the views here have been mixed, so it's a risk.
On your comment about my headphones- everyone's idea of "loose bass" is different. I would consider the only hp I have like this is the Sony 1a. The Pm3 bass I find lazer sharp. Btw, I bought the 1a without auditioning them because of early bird hype here on Headfi.
Your point that some sound signatures agree with some and not others is true, and obvious. This is precisely why people shouldn't shell out big bucks on the basis of a few enthusiastic reviews. Try for yourself first, this would be my advice with regard to ANY expensive audio gear purchase.

Gotcha. I am trying trying to stress the point it was a mistake for you, but don't discourage others.  I guess that would make them about 530.00 dollars US, and that is expensive, but money is relative. What is expensive to one may not be to others.
 
Yes the 1a is loose bass and I would consider the M100 loose with some bleed into the mids(I think they are fun and durable), the AT M-50x have over emphasized bass as well.
 
Again are the Sine the end game for me, no. I doubt there will ever be an endgame. They are an excellent hp, they are on ear(negative, I prefer over ear), they clamp tight(extend earcup more to relieve pressure) and the can be a little difficult to drive compared to a PM-3, but I drive them from my cellphone at only 3/4 volume. These are the negatives. The positives have been documented as well. 

 

[thefitz]

What's more irritating - blind universal praise, or folks insisting the reviews are mixed at best?

 

[brent75]

Mixed at best implies it's getting about a 40% - 50% approval rating, or averaging 3 stars or so on Amazon. That's not at all reflective of the feedback, acclaim and reviews Sine is getting - hence me calling it out.

It's not getting blind universal praise. No one claimed it is, or that it deserves it.

 

[MxChino]

I have the cipher cabled sines and plugged into an iPhone the sound is absolutely magical. I have never heard such clarity in a portable headphone, tight, controlled bass. Absolutely no bass bleed into the mids and sparkling highs.

The fact that I can leave the house with my iPhone and a set of headphones and get this quality of sound, for only $500? It's a game changer and by far the best on ear headphone you can buy, hands down. Not to mention this is the only pair that I've let my wife try (who has absolutely no passion about headphones or sound quality) that has made her say "wow".
Just wanted to throw my opinion in for all the "mixed" reviews.

 

[inthere]

I remember when the Oppo PM 3 was one of Head Fi's most recommended headphones to noobies.......probably still is. I owned one for a few months and liked it so much that I went and bought the PM-1, which I still have.

The PM-3 is pretty great imo-very flat and honest but you can definitely hear where it separates itself from all the sub-$300 headphones and even some more expensive ones.

When I see comments about the PM-3 being "boring" I have to shake my head.

I was also awakened in this thread to the fact that T50rp mods are still awesome-my old Alpha Dogs are unbelievable sounding when I compare them to the Sine.

When you get to this level I think your enjoyment is heavily, and I mean HEAVILY dependent on personal preference.

My problemon is I have a lot of headphones and a lot of preferences, lol.

I love the Alpha Dog, l get absolute audio nirvana from Sine when I'm traveling, and if someone were to put a PM-3 in front of me right now I'd flip out on them too.

Now if the Sine is uncomfortable to you ok, nobody can help you with that. Send em back.

But if the Sine or the PM-3 sound "boring" to you, I'd suggest you listen to more exciting music!

 

[JaeYoon]

I think I will also keep my Sines when I get other headphones too. I will keep fostex t50rp for home use away from public eye. But Sines for on the go.

I've had to use medium pressure on Sine headband and it seems to stay that way. The clamping is much less but still fits fine for my head
So it's been comfortable for 6 hours but it's got enough clamp to keep my glasses intact without it slipping.
I still enjoy Sine sound and find it more engaging than Trinity IEMs I have.

My only issue with Sines is I need to increase the volume much more on quieter tracks than on say IEMs. But that's pretty obvious and I will be needing the Cayin C5 AMP anyways for my Fostex so might as well get it.

 

[jjsoviet]

I just wish there's a USB-A and C version of the Cipher, Audeze is missing out on more than half the mobile user base using Android. 

 

[tmarshl]

I have the cipher cabled sines and plugged into an iPhone the sound is absolutely magical. I have never heard such clarity in a portable headphone, tight, controlled bass. Absolutely no bass bleed into the mids and sparkling highs.

The fact that I can leave the house with my iPhone and a set of headphones and get this quality of sound, for only $500? It's a game changer and by far the best on ear headphone you can buy, hands down. Not to mention this is the only pair that I've let my wife try (who has absolutely no passion about headphones or sound quality) that has made her say "wow".
Just wanted to throw my opinion in for all the "mixed" reviews.

This post resonated with me, and made me think that we should review Sines as two different headphones: with and without Cipher cable.  The Cipher cable adds so much in a mobile setting, driven by an iOS device, that it becomes a totally different animal.  I have used the 3.5mm cable with my Mojo DAC/Amp and it sounds great; but in an airplane seat, the back seat of an Uber or just out for a walk, the Sine + Cipher delivers a fine performance without stringing a bunch of clumsy devices together.  
 
For what I bought it for (listening to downloaded Tidal HiFi on the go from my iPhone 6) it is unparalleled. 

 

[329161]

Edit to keep this civil.
Guys
Remember, I'm not a nsulting your mothers. I'm just talking headphones. Arguments over headphones don't even rank up there with arguments about football teams.

 

[tmarshl]

  I just wish there's a USB-A and C version of the Cipher, Audeze is missing out on more than half the mobile user base using Android. 

Wouldn't be surprised if your wish was fulfilled.

 

[MxChino]

This post resonated with me, and made me think that we should review the Sines as two different headphones: with and without Cipher cable.  The Cipher cable adds so much in a portable/mobile setting, while driven by an iOS device, that it becomes a totally different animal.  I have used the 3.5mm cable with my Mojo DAC/Amp and it sounds great; but in an airplane seat, or the back of a taxi the Sine + Cipher delivers a fine performance without stringing a bunch of clumsy devices together.  for what I bought it for (listening on the go) it is unparalleled. 

Exactly. I don't need a $700 fancy DAP, a $400 amp and $200 worth of silver, copper whatever cables. I just need my iPhone.

 

[SwedishBass]

Exactly. I don't need a $700 fancy DAP, a $400 amp and $200 worth of silver, copper whatever cables. I just need my iPhone.

I second that. That's why the Sine with Cypher cable is so appealing to me.