[newyorker4life]

Yeah.... Its gotta be magic to fit in a cable and be any good.

A tiny-ass microchip could totally override the default Apple power draw limitations, so I mean it could technically be an amp. Just depends on what you consider an amp.

[ATTACHMENT=2865]image.jpeg (1,027k. jpeg file)[/ATTACHMENT]

Again, I wish I had taken a photo of Dragonfly Red before returning it, but attached is closer up photo of Cipher Cable / DAC. I think people may not realize Cipher DAC is not "small" relative to other USB size DACs. Cipher cable itself is longer, feels more like custom cable, heavier and more substantial but then again it's double cabled to HPs vs.single. Cipher DAC itself I think is longer than DFR, but thinner. Definitely feels in the hand, more substantial than DFR.

Even if Cipher's DAC power draw is modest, there's a third variable. I think feeding Sine + Cipher some Hi-Def Tidal audibly helps improve SQ, As others have observed; Audeze focusing on users who want a truly "portable" audiophile set of HPs, I think means not just hardware. You need Sine + Cipher + "Hi-Def/high quality" input source. These consumers (like me) may not want to re-rip their entire CD collection and/or drop $1,500 on high end music player they have to carry in addition to phone. The iPhone + DFR + Apple CCK honestly isn't what customers (like me) want in terms of TRULY portable.

Even before iPhone 7 specs officially released, what we are seeing is a disruption in music streaming services, mobile phone as music player, and boutique DAC/amp markets. Mojo lovers can and will still love their Mojos. Folks who love ripping their CDs into high def file formats will still love doing that. Brilliantly Audeze has recognized there is a market for consumers who want a truly portable audiophile hp solution.... without losing hp volume & track control. I know many different opinions exist about losing the HP track & volume control when using a portable DAC....but it's not inconsequential. Cipher is and will continue to facilitate disruption - which is a very cool thing.

At this point I've compared the new Bose Soundsport sq to PM3 and Sine, and Soundsport of course wins on "portable" criteria. Actually, Bose sound better than I thought they would. At $150 for Bose, or $319 for refurb PM3, or $550 for Sine/Cipher here's the subjective part. Is PM3 sq twice as good as Bose? Is Sine sq almost twice as good as PM3 and more than thrice "better" than Bose: being very narrow - as TRULY portable, with headphone volume & track control, audiophile solution, feeding all three HPs Tidal Hi-Def? In my humble hp noob opinion, it is not so easy to quantify.

What is easy to predict - Cipher DAC is just first step in disruption. Next, someone will put a tiny rechargeable battery in a future integrated cipher-DAC style product. That will address the "amp" aspect.

Some very cool things are happening. I still wish Sine was more comfortable to wear. It's almost over-ear for me, and that would make all the difference.

 

[canali]

this is why i'm holding off buying them for now: i prefer over ear.
 
would love it eventually to have a mojo like sound in such a cable that
you can attach to your ipod...dap...smartphone or laptop.
am sure it's coming eventually over the next few yrs or so.
 
 
Quote:

 

Again, I wish I had taken a photo of Dragonfly Red before returning it, but attached is closer up photo of Cipher Cable / DAC. I think people may not realize Cipher DAC is not "small" relative to other USB size DACs. Cipher cable itself is longer, feels more like custom cable, heavier and more substantial but then again it's double cabled to HPs vs.single. Cipher DAC itself I think is longer than DFR, but thinner. Definitely feels in the hand, more substantial than DFR.

Even if Cipher's DAC power draw is modest, there's a third variable. I think feeding Sine + Cipher some Hi-Def Tidal audibly helps improve SQ, As others have observed; Audeze focusing on users who want a truly "portable" audiophile set of HPs, I think means not just hardware. You need Sine + Cipher + "Hi-Def/high quality" input source. These consumers (like me) may not want to re-rip their entire CD collection and/or drop $1,500 on high end music player they have to carry in addition to phone. The iPhone + DFR + Apple CCK honestly isn't what customers (like me) want in terms of TRULY portable.

Even before iPhone 7 specs officially released, what we are seeing is a disruption in music streaming services, mobile phone as music player, and boutique DAC/amp markets. Mojo lovers can and will still love their Mojos. Folks who love ripping their CDs into high def file formats will still love doing that. Brilliantly Audeze has recognized there is a market for consumers who want a truly portable audiophile hp solution.... without losing hp volume & track control. I know many different opinions exist about losing the HP track & volume control when using a portable DAC....but it's not inconsequential. Cipher is and will continue to facilitate disruption - which is a very cool thing.

At this point I've compared the new Bose Soundsport sq to PM3 and Sine, and Soundsport of course wins on "portable" criteria. Actually, Bose sound better than I thought they would. At $150 for Bose, or $319 for refurb PM3, or $550 for Sine/Cipher here's the subjective part. Is PM3 sq twice as good as Bose? Is Sine sq almost twice as good as PM3 and more than thrice "better" than Bose: being very narrow - as TRULY portable, with headphone volume & track control, audiophile solution, feeding all three HPs Tidal Hi-Def? In my humble hp noob opinion, it is not so easy to quantify.

What is easy to predict - Cipher DAC is just first step in disruption. Next, someone will put a tiny rechargeable battery in a future integrated cipher-DAC style product. That will address the "amp" aspect.

Some very cool things are happening. I still wish Sine was more comfortable to wear. It's almost over-ear for me, and that would make all the difference.

 

[bahula03]

 
A tiny-ass microchip could totally override the default Apple power draw limitations, so I mean it could technically be an amp. Just depends on what you consider an amp.

Man, what is this nonsense?! 

 The iOS device is separately outputting a digital signal and power...there is, and has to be, a DAC and an amp in the cable for sound to come out of the headphones. The definition of what an amp is/does is straightforward, nothing further to be considered there. 
 
...or are you going all tin foil hat on us and suggesting that Audeze is lying about the functions of the Cipher cable?

 

[newyorker4life]

A tiny-ass microchip could totally override the default Apple power draw limitations, so I mean it could technically be an amp. Just depends on what you consider an amp.

Man, what is this nonsense?!   The iOS device is separately outputting a digital signal and power...there is, and has to be, a DAC and an amp in the cable for sound to come out of the headphones. The definition of what an amp is/does is straightforward, nothing further to be considered there. 

...or are you going all tin foil hat on us and suggesting that Audeze is lying about the functions of the Cipher cable?

[ATTACHMENT=2867]image.jpeg (1,022k. jpeg file)[/ATTACHMENT]

I think perhaps some folks really don't have the Cipher in hand and don't realize the DAC is not "small". Posted another photo of Cipher DAC next to ear cup for scale. The cipher DAC ain't "small" folks. There's some serious DAC/AMP circuitry real estate folks. This is NOT the size of an iOS or android in-line toggle. Check it out.

 

[thefitz]

 
Man, what is this nonsense?! 

 The iOS device is separately outputting a digital signal and power...there is, and has to be, a DAC and an amp in the cable for sound to come out of the headphones. The definition of what an amp is/does is straightforward, nothing further to be considered there. 
 
...or are you going all tin foil hat on us and suggesting that Audeze is lying about the functions of the Cipher cable?

The DAC bit is a given, but what I'm getting at is - just spitballing here - if a headphone jack put out, oh, 100mW, and an amp put out 50mW, what are we calling that?

 

[brent75]

All these discussions and borderline arguments about what the Cipher is/isn't...how "revolutionary" it is/isn't...so on and so forth...is humorous to me.
 
Bottom line: it sounds amazing, it's awesome integration that doesn't sacrifice portability, and it makes music listening FUN.

 

[dogmickey]

Have any sine users had the chance to compare these with the 2016 el-8 closed back? I'd assume they'd sound better but I'm not really sold on the portability factor of it.

 

[Sonic Defender]

 
The DAC bit is a given, but what I'm getting at is - just spitballing here - if a headphone jack put out, oh, 100mW, and an amp put out 50mW, what are we calling that?

An amp that puts out 50mW.

 

[thefitz]

Have any sine users had the chance to compare these with the 2016 el-8 closed back? I'd assume they'd sound better but I'm not really sold on the portability factor of it.

The Sine has a considerably larger headband, believe it or not. The EL -8 is quite cramped.

 

[canali]

am going to go have a listen against the sony 7520s this wkend....will report back.
i'm no seasoned critic like many of you, however.
 
i tip my hat in respect to audeze for introducing this technology (the cipher cable).
kudos..hopefully it'll just mature and evolve going forward.

 

[liamstrain]

Have any sine users had the chance to compare these with the 2016 el-8 closed back? I'd assume they'd sound better but I'm not really sold on the portability factor of it.

No, not yet. I've only compared against the earlier EL-8, and much preferred the SINE. 

 

[inthere]

Have any sine users had the chance to compare these with the 2016 el-8 closed back? I'd assume they'd sound better but I'm not really sold on the portability factor of it.

No, not yet. I've only compared against the earlier EL-8, and much preferred the SINE. 

Same here, I have the 2015 EL-8, and the Sine seems superior in every way

 

[329161]

Audeze request- bring these out in a dark tan or white?

 

[JaeYoon]

How well does Sine hold up to other closed portable Headphones such as Focal Classic or even portable headphones below the 499 price?

 

[wellers73]

I attended the event at Stereo Exchange in NYC last week, and compared the Sine to the closed EL-8 Titanium. I had tried the EL-8 T before and really liked them, but much preferred the Sines when comparing them directly. The Sine sounded much more clear and seemed to have more extended high frequencies. I don't often like on-ear headphones, but found the Sines to be pretty comfortable. Only tried them for 10 minutes, so I can't comment on long term comfort. 
 
I also listened to the Sines a bit without the Cipher cable - as mentioned, the volume output from an iPhone was noticeably lower with the regular 1/8 cable. They still sounded nice, but really benefitted from the Cipher.