[Scratchansniff]

Sennheiser H3 Pro Hybrid

Is that the epos h3?

 

[estaud]

While I admire the sarcasm, that pretty lime green Penrose X's options still work on your Xbox. So you're still getting the game/chat balance. As stated previously, the Penrose and Penrose X share the same firmware, so while you have lime green Penrose, those with Blue Penroses do not. Having the default action being something aimed for just one of the MANY...devices that these headsets can be used for, well, then I'd think you'd understand why the better default choice was the mic gain, leaving game/chat balance as secondary.

If it was an Xbox exclusive headset, sure. But they're not limited to just Xbox. This is just me thinking logically here, and not as an engineer. I would assume coming up with two separate firmwares just to address the needs of a few people doesn't really come across as logical. Especially when the option is still there, and only takes one extra action.

As stated by Audeze previously, the two Penrose models may not continue to have the same firmware, because Audeze may update them eventually to work better with the device they were marketed for. Way back when the headphones were first released, many users asked "why not just buy the X version for all systems since they work with both?". Audeze replied that future compatibility with the PlayStation would not be guaranteed on the x model. Now Audeze won't improve functionality with the Xbox-focused version of the Penrose because they don't want to limit compatibility.

If the game chat function, as currently implemented, actually worked, users would not be asking to swap the functionality of the button.

I click the mic button and then scroll to adjust chat mix. The amount of time allowed for adjusting chat mix after the click is so short (a small fraction of a second) that most of the time I end up only adjusting the mic gain.

I contacted customer support to ask why the method described for adjusting game chat in the manual doesn't work. Audeze customer support admitted the method in the instruction manual doesn't work for them either. They advised me to hold down the mic wheel while turning it at the same time. Great. I've tried that already. Impossible to do without some amount of slop so that the mic gain gets changed.

Guess what the solution from Audeze customer support is? Bring a computer to my living room. Plug my headphones into the computer using the usb-c cord. If I need to adjust chat-mix while gaming on the Xbox, I can use the AudezeHQ app to do so. What.

There are plenty of ways for Audeze to fix this that don't involve me using a computer with the AudezeHQ app to solve a basic user interface problem.

How about after I click the mic wheel, you give me 5 seconds to adjust chat-mix instead of .2 seconds?
How about each time I click the mic wheel the function of the wheel is swapped and the voice says "mic" or "chat" to let me know what it's set to?
How about swapping the function on the green "x" versions of the Penrose so that it's at least making an effort at working properly with an Xbox?

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

As stated by Audeze previously, the two Penrose models may not continue to have the same firmware, because Audeze may update them eventually to work better with the device they were marketed for. Way back when the headphones were first released, many users asked "why not just buy the X version for all systems since they work with both?". Audeze replied that future compatibility with the PlayStation would not be guaranteed on the x model. Now Audeze won't improve functionality with the Xbox-focused version of the Penrose because they don't want to limit compatibility.

If the game chat function, as currently implemented, actually worked, users would not be asking to swap the functionality of the button.

I click the mic button and then scroll to adjust chat mix. The amount of time allowed for adjusting chat mix after the click is so short (a small fraction of a second) that most of the time I end up only adjusting the mic gain.

I contacted customer support to ask why the method described for adjusting game chat in the manual doesn't work. Audeze customer support admitted the method in the instruction manual doesn't work for them either. They advised me to hold down the mic wheel while turning it at the same time. Great. I've tried that already. Impossible to do without some amount of slop so that the mic gain gets changed.

Guess what the solution from Audeze customer support is? Bring a computer to my living room. Plug my headphones into the computer using the usb-c cord. If I need to adjust chat-mix while gaming on the Xbox, I can use the AudezeHQ app to do so. What.

There are plenty of ways for Audeze to fix this that don't involve me using a computer with the AudezeHQ app to solve a basic user interface problem.

How about after I click the mic wheel, you give me 5 seconds to adjust chat-mix instead of .2 seconds?
How about each time I click the mic wheel the function of the wheel is swapped and the voice says "mic" or "chat" to let me know what it's set to?
How about swapping the function on the green "x" versions of the Penrose so that it's at least making an effort at working properly with an Xbox?

I was the one who responded to that ticket.

I apologize if you misinterpreted my suggestion. I didn't recommend you bring your computer to your living room. I suggested as an alternative, to adjust the game/chat mix on the Audeze HQ mobile app, as you're having so much trouble pressing in the mic wheel and adjusting there.



As you can see, that image I gave you is from a mobile device, not a PC. I probably should've enforced that I meant mobile app, so that was my fault. I'm sorry about that.

The headsets use the same firmware. The main difference is the dongle. That is what differs. The headset itself is identical, aside from colors. The dongle has different firmware separate from the Headset firmware. The function you wish to change is on the headset, not the dongle, ergo, they can't be separated as simple as you might think.

And I'm not disagreeing with you on the mic toggle. It can take a bit of force to trigger. I hope to have a better toggle at some point in the future.

 

[estaud]

I was the one who responded to that ticket.

I apologize if you misinterpreted my suggestion. I didn't recommend you bring your computer to your living room. I suggested as an alternative, to adjust the game/chat mix on the Audeze HQ mobile app, as you're having so much trouble pressing in the mic wheel and adjusting there.



As you can see, that image I gave you is from a mobile device, not a PC.

The headsets use the same firmware. The main difference is the dongle. That is what differs. The headset itself is identical, aside from colors. The dongle has different firmware separate from the Headset firmware. The function you wish to change is on the headset, not the dongle, ergo, they can't be separated.

Thanks for the explanation about the firmware, and thanks for being here to hear me out.

I've really tried to make the press-then-turn or the turn-while-pressing method work. I plug the headphones into my mac and watch the dials in AudezeHQ move as I practice turning the dial on the headphones using the suggested methods. I practice and practice, but can't reliably change the chat mix without also changing the mic gain.

I should be able to hand these headphones to a friend, give them 10 seconds of instruction on how to change the chat mix, and they should be successful on the first try and every try after that.

I appreciated the suggestion of the mobile app, but I'm an iPhone user. When the Penrose came out I was excited that it was marketed as IOS compatible and waited patiently for the IOS app to be released.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I forget as a non-Apple user that is a bit different/harder for you guys. So I understand the pain.

I'll speak to the team about any potential possibilities to ease the toggling between mic gain and game/chat mix. If possible I can see ways it can be made easier. Just not sure it's possible on the chipset.

 

[estaud]

I forget as a non-Apple user that is a bit different/harder for you guys. So I understand the pain.

I'll speak to the team about any potential possibilities to ease the toggling between mic gain and game/chat mix. If possible I can see ways it can be made easier. Just not sure it's possible.

Thank you thank you thank you.

 

[Twizzleshnizzle]

While I admire the sarcasm, that pretty lime green Penrose X's options still work on your Xbox. So you're still getting the game/chat balance. As stated previously, the Penrose and Penrose X share the same firmware, so while you have lime green Penrose, those with Blue Penroses do not. Having the default action being something aimed for just one of the MANY...devices that these headsets can be used for, well, then I'd think you'd understand why the better default choice was the mic gain, leaving game/chat balance as secondary.

If it was an Xbox exclusive headset, sure. But they're not limited to just Xbox. This is just me thinking logically here, and not as an engineer. I would assume coming up with two separate firmwares just to address the needs of a few people doesn't really come across as logical. Especially when the option is still there, and only takes one extra action.

It's good to see you here replying actively to posts. I did want to respond to say the mix issue isn't just "...the needs of a few people...". No doubt every owner has this difficulty, but only a small percentage are here on Head Fi, and only some of those are choosing to be vocal.

I use my mobile phone app to make the change as I have essential tremors in my hands that make it difficult to make fine motor movements with my hands. But let's stop and think about that, in order to change my mix on the headset, myself and many others can't use the dial on the device as it doesn't work well and causes mic volume changes. Instead we have to use an additional device that isn't supplied with our headset, the cost of which is our own. I've never experienced that with any other headset that also has an onboard dial to change chat mix.

I'm not looking for a reply by the way, just wanted to make a point. As a side note, I love the work you created on reviewing headphones for gaming. Been a long time reader of that thread.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Ultimately, regardless of which direction we go, some people aren't going to be happy.

Unfortunately, we can't account for every person's needs and wants, and I feel (as someone not in control of what happens in fw for now), that the broad majority of users will prefer mic gain, as game/chat is ONLY usable on one system out of many the Penrose can work for.

I'd think it's basically that simple. As it stands, with what we're currently capable of, majority rules. 100% of users can utilize mic gain. Only a fraction of that can use game/chat. So we're gonna prioritize the 100%

I think the argument has been exhausted, so while I understand the issues, logically speaking, with what we can do at this time, mic gain will remain prioritized. If we change it, it would be the other way around, with the overwhelming majority being upset that an option that only one system can use, being prioritized.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

Ultimately, regardless of which direction we go, some people aren't going to be happy.

Unfortunately, we can't account for every person's needs and wants, and I feel (as someone not in control of what happens in fw for now), that the broad majority of users will prefer mic gain, as game/chat is ONLY usable on one system out of many the Penrose can work for.

I'd think it's basically that simple. As it stands, with what we're currently capable of, majority rules. 100% of users can utilize mic gain. Only a fraction of that can use game/chat. So we're gonna prioritize the 100%

I think the argument has been exhausted, so while I understand the issues, logically speaking, with what we can do at this time, mic gain will remain prioritized. If we change it, it would be the other way around, with the overwhelming majority being upset that an option that only one system can use, being prioritized.

As I mentioned on the previous page, if it worked as it stands now no one would have issue. The fact it’s almost unusable as is is where the problem lies

 

[crypticc]

Ultimately, regardless of which direction we go, some people aren't going to be happy.

Unfortunately, we can't account for every person's needs and wants, and I feel (as someone not in control of what happens in fw for now), that the broad majority of users will prefer mic gain, as game/chat is ONLY usable on one system out of many the Penrose can work for.

I'd think it's basically that simple. As it stands, with what we're currently capable of, majority rules. 100% of users can utilize mic gain. Only a fraction of that can use game/chat. So we're gonna prioritize the 100%

I think the argument has been exhausted, so while I understand the issues, logically speaking, with what we can do at this time, mic gain will remain prioritized. If we change it, it would be the other way around, with the overwhelming majority being upset that an option that only one system can use, being prioritized.

Hi

While not impacted as I don't use chat/mix I can empathise with the concerns

I think increasing the length of time between clicking, scrolling (mic/chat), and then returning to gain only is a good compromise.
The issue that people with Xbox are having I think is the need to press-and-scroll at the same time. As it stands they press, scroll the finger, and then run out of finger before the wheel has rotated more than one click or two.
Clearly scrolling with the flat of the hand doesn't work, hence the request to allow it to be click, and then scroll with a timeout of say 5 to 10 seconds.

Thanks
Chris

 

[estaud]

Ultimately, regardless of which direction we go, some people aren't going to be happy.

Unfortunately, we can't account for every person's needs and wants, and I feel (as someone not in control of what happens in fw for now), that the broad majority of users will prefer mic gain, as game/chat is ONLY usable on one system out of many the Penrose can work for.

I'd think it's basically that simple. As it stands, with what we're currently capable of, majority rules. 100% of users can utilize mic gain. Only a fraction of that can use game/chat. So we're gonna prioritize the 100%

I think the argument has been exhausted, so while I understand the issues, logically speaking, with what we can do at this time, mic gain will remain prioritized. If we change it, it would be the other way around, with the overwhelming majority being upset that an option that only one system can use, being prioritized.

Given the current situation where one function is easy to use and the second function is so poorly implemented, a conversation about prioritizing would seem important. Maybe all this time it's been the wrong conversation. We wouldn't be asking Audeze to swap the function if it worked well, or if the software wasn't designed to prioritize one function over the other.

If the system were designed so that a single click switched the wheel function until the next time the wheel was clicked, then neither function would be prioritized. Each set of users could leave the button/dial set to their needs. People without a need for a chat-mix option would never click the button again once it was set to mic gain. Xbox users would leave it set the chat-mix. Each time the button/dial is clicked there could be a sound cue to tell the user which feature is active... a soft beep for mic gain and two beeps for chat-mix. Or the voice could be used to say "mic" or "chat"

When I play Xbox live I adjust my chat-mix during every game, usually multiple times in a single game. During a warzone gulag, I need to quiet my team's voices. During a bombing raid, I need to quiet the game. Also, as chat-mix is adjusted I have to wait to hear my friends speak and to hear sounds in the game to see if I've got it correct. Turn it a little this way, then turn it a little that way, wait for a second to hear someone speak, adjust it again, etc.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

While some of you think it's as simple as your recommendations, there are limitations in the chipset where it's not 'JUST DO THIS' kind of task. If it were, they would've been implemented. There is limited functionality on what can and can't be done. These are discussions I (as a user) have made (believe me, I've been reviewing and using headphones much longer than being part of the Audeze team, so I fully understand the needs and wants portrayed here). Implementation is not a simple matter.

As for discussion, it's always vocal minority that speaks the loudest. You can be sure if the options were flipped, the other side would bring up their concerns.

I'm not in charge of the engineering (obviously so), but I have made my recommendations which while some may be able to be utilized, most can't.

You have your issues, others have theirs. We can't conform to everyone's needs, with the scope and actual real limits we are bound to. I'll bring up these old issues once again, but I would not anticipate changes made for the vocal minority.

 

[RyantheGamer]

While some of you think it's as simple as your recommendations, there are limitations in the chipset where it's not 'JUST DO THIS' kind of task. If it were, they would've been implemented. There is limited functionality on what can and can't be done. These are discussions I (as a user) have made (believe me, I've been reviewing and using headphones much longer than being part of the Audeze team, so I fully understand the needs and wants portrayed here). Implementation is not a simple matter.

As for discussion, it's always vocal minority that speaks the loudest. You can be sure if the options were flipped, the other side would bring up their concerns.

I'm not in charge of the engineering (obviously so), but I have made my recommendations which while some may be able to be utilized, most can't.

You have your issues, others have theirs. We can't conform to everyone's needs, with the scope and actual real limits we are bound to. I'll bring up these old issues once again, but I would not anticipate changes made for the vocal minority.

Thank you for engaging with us. For a while a lot of the frustration was a lack of communication - this thread was just full of complaints without much in the way of responses from the company. I disengaged a while back because of this. Thank you for trying to be real with everyone about what is and is not feasible, as well as the logic for why.

This headset is a really amazing 1st foray into the console-space for such a small team. Audeze managed to release a headset that stands with or above the efforts made by companies who have have been making gaming headsets for a decade or more. That is no small feat. Is it perfect? No, far from it. But it is only maybe one major hardware revision from being the perfect headset and that is impressive to me.

I'm an android user so the app negates all the problems I have with the physical interface on the headset. I think it's a crying shame that something wasn't put out there for ios. That really needs to either change down the road for this headset - or at least be in the works for a gen 2 penrose.

From a physical interface standpoint there is obviously room for growth since many people struggle with things like mic gain vs chat/game ratio adjustments. I hope a gen 2 can allow greater user customization of button functions via a phone app and more intuitive design (I would say the mic gain and master volume dials are a little close to each other and the multifunction button to swap modes isn't intuitive to find when you reach for it.)

From a build quality/ergonomics standpoint I would love a metal-reinforced joint where the earcups link to the headband. I would also love to see more padding on the headband for comfort.

Crucially though, I'll reiterate that Audeze needs to make their app available on both android and ios. It is really a game changer for the headset controls.

Last I looked, Audeze is a 14 person team so I know all of this is a tall order, but I truly believe with the sound quality of this headset - a gen 2 that alleviates the issues above would find a place in many more homes than the current model.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Rest assured, there's a lot Audeze has learned with the Mobius and Penrose, and will absolutely take into account in the future. from the user end, engineering, and everything in between, believe me, we're listening.

 

[Evil Deadly]

If Audeze made a mic cable for the LCD-1 I’d be set.