[Audeze]

I just want to start off by thanking you for responding to the past few posts of critical (but respectful) feedback. It means a lot for us as consumers to feel our voice is heard.

We certainly want our customers to be happy. We also understand these headphones are a little bit out of our comfort zone. We are also quite possibly the smallest company trying to make these kind of headsets like Mobius, Penrose etc. But the good part about it is, we are also quite nimble and can quickly address many of these.

In addition, many of the requests we get here in are very specific and address a narrow set of customers, who are also very passionate and give us feedback. For example during Mobius development, one of the most requested features was EQ settings. We now know only about 5% of the users of Mobius even bother changing any settings in Mobius and less than 1% change EQ even once.

I never tried the Mobius, but the Penrose are definitely the most uncomfortable pair of headphones I've ever owned (that includes both Focal Elear and Utopia, Sony Z1R, ZMF Omni, HD650, HD800, Hifiman HE-400i, HE-560i and HE-1000i, and then Momentum 3.0 and WH1000XM3 for wireless). It's not as bad now after stretching them out for several nights, but they're still by far the least comfortable headphones I own, and I need to take break after a couple hours.

There are two different things here. If we are talking about a passive headset, it is easier to make them lighter by sacrificing some efficiency. For example take our LCD1 headset. It weighs about 250 gms and has 20 Neodymium magnets in it. It is also quite efficient. When you design wireless headphones or headphones with electronics, in addition to the weight of the drivers, we now have electronics and battery weight as well. With Momentum or WH1000 the drivers are quite light weight and it is easier to design. With Planars, the weight comes from the magnets. If we are designing a passive headphone, we can reduce the magnets and rely on external amplification. But for something like Penrose, we have to also make them very efficient. In fact Penrose might quite possibly be the most efficient Planar headphone. The dynamic range is very large as well, since we have a balanced design. Our goal was to find the best possible balance between weight and efficiency, while cramming all the electronics inside the headphone.

I hope that Audeze can balance the latency and stability

There are multiple latencies involved. The main latency is from the USB driver. In Mobius for example, even when it is wired, musicians find it hard to use with anything more than 20 ms latency. So we wrote a low latency ASIO driver. You raise two different issues here.
Bluetooth based codecs - AptXLL - The latency for the codec might be 50 ms, but in the end you will also have to add the system latency. In addition you are also losing fidelity becuase AptXLL is a very low bitrate codec. The microphone bandwidth is also limited when using SCO codec for talking. We have tried AptXLL on Penrose and it does not sound very good.

2.4 Ghz _ Latency/ / Range - This is something we believe we can fine tune more.

 

[Audeze]

Ah understood. If that is a major issue for my use case, how long would I have to return them? I'd probably be OK w/waiting for a response from your dev team but not willing to take a chance that no fix for the issue would be released.

Also, I'm curious as to why the decision was made for such huge difference in audio levels? 90/10 may as well be 100/0.

It is actually not 90/10 all the time. It actually varies depending on the use case, devices used etc. For example, if you are playing 2.4 Ghz and Bluetooth audio (not voice call), the balance is different compared to when you are playing n 2.4 Ghz + Bluetooth call. We you are on a phone call, our assumption is the voice call audio is more important, so more emphasis is given.
The decision was made by us just using this at our offices for a few months and testing it with various scenarios (eg - answering a call in the middle of a game). We also found out that when calling from IOS or Android devices makes a difference in voice call volume. So there are a few different settings already baked in.

 

[zachwagon]

Mine get here Monday but these comfort issues, particularly the guy who has the same head size as me (7 3/4 hat) make me really nervous. I did buy Dekoni nuggets to try and help with all of the headband complaints, but if these are one of those high clamp with small ear pad deals (like the HD 280) then I will have to send them back.

I value sound quality a lot but when I’m buying a headset for communication in games and work, then comfort is the number 1 priority. I use my SHP-9500 for gaming over much better cans simply because they are so comfortable for long sessions.

 

[anonuser]

It is actually not 90/10 all the time. It actually varies depending on the use case, devices used etc. For example, if you are playing 2.4 Ghz and Bluetooth audio (not voice call), the balance is different compared to when you are playing n 2.4 Ghz + Bluetooth call. We you are on a phone call, our assumption is the voice call audio is more important, so more emphasis is given.
The decision was made by us just using this at our offices for a few months and testing it with various scenarios (eg - answering a call in the middle of a game). We also found out that when calling from IOS or Android devices makes a difference in voice call volume. So there are a few different settings already baked in.

Thank you for the explanation. That's helpful! I'm going into this with an open mind and hope that it works for me!

 

[Audeze]

Mine get here Monday but these comfort issues, particularly the guy who has the same head size as me (7 3/4 hat) make me really nervous.

This is actually the most surprising feedback for us. Mobius and Penrose have the same clamping force – and both headbands will stretch over time (or use the “pillow method” proposed by another Head-Fi’er). There are over 100K units out in the field now with the same headband, clamping force, earpads and we haven’t received any major long-term complaints on this.

 

[scratchmassive]

This is my primary use case. USB-C to Penrose X through the Apple adapter. So, surprised you seem to have an issue. if you run into any other issue, send us an email and we will look into it.

I might have the same problem. I'm using the Penrose with the Apple USB-C/USB-A/HDMI adapter. I have to plug/unplug about 6 times before it will stay connected. I have 2 of these adapters and it happens with both. I have a PC where it connects fine. I've contacted support but not heard back.

 

[Petes67bird]

Question; how do I get the chat/game volume slider in the ps5 menu to work and not be grayed out?

 

[Agentreza]

Agreed on the lack of comfort. These sound really good, but I am not sure how I can make them more comfortable.

Dekoni nuggets for top pressure and Dekoni suede for the pads, if you're willing to fork over the $$$. I got these as well as the penrose x on the way, we'll see what happens lol

 

[imac2much]

There are two different things here. If we are talking about a passive headset, it is easier to make them lighter by sacrificing some efficiency. For example take our LCD1 headset. It weighs about 250 gms and has 20 Neodymium magnets in it. It is also quite efficient. When you design wireless headphones or headphones with electronics, in addition to the weight of the drivers, we now have electronics and battery weight as well. With Momentum or WH1000 the drivers are quite light weight and it is easier to design. With Planars, the weight comes from the magnets. If we are designing a passive headphone, we can reduce the magnets and rely on external amplification. But for something like Penrose, we have to also make them very efficient. In fact Penrose might quite possibly be the most efficient Planar headphone. The dynamic range is very large as well, since we have a balanced design. Our goal was to find the best possible balance between weight and efficiency, while cramming all the electronics inside the headphone.

I think that's all fair, but to be honest I don't have an issue with the weight of these headphones. Heck, I've had wired headphones that weighed more than these. I think it's the combination of the high clamping force, minimal padding on the headband (only on the very top which gives me a "hot spot" on the top of my head) and the type of earpads used. This combination certainly improves passive isolation, but at the cost of some comfort.

There are multiple latencies involved. The main latency is from the USB driver. In Mobius for example, even when it is wired, musicians find it hard to use with anything more than 20 ms latency. So we wrote a low latency ASIO driver. You raise two different issues here.
Bluetooth based codecs - AptXLL - The latency for the codec might be 50 ms, but in the end you will also have to add the system latency. In addition you are also losing fidelity becuase AptXLL is a very low bitrate codec. The microphone bandwidth is also limited when using SCO codec for talking. We have tried AptXLL on Penrose and it does not sound very good.

2.4 Ghz _ Latency/ / Range - This is something we believe we can fine tune more.

Don't get me wrong - I absolutely prefer 2.4ghz lossless wireless connectivity over any type of Bluetooth. AptX LL was good in a pinch, but it's definitely not preferable to 2.4ghz or wired connection. I was only introducing the codec as a comparison in acceptable latency for gaming (which the Penrose are marketed toward quite heavily as opposed to musicians). In the aspect of gaming, I find 40-50ms latency negligible, and I've used aptX LL quite extensively even for virtual reality where any noticeable latency can cause headaches and motion sickness.

So when compared to competitors who use possibly the same wireless chipset as the Penrose (such as the Arctis 7P and Pulse 3D), I assume that they sacrifice some latency in order to maintain their superior connection stability and range. If there are truly so few wireless chipsets, that gives me confidence that Audeze can find a better balance to improve the Penrose's connection to match its competitors.

 

[Audeze]

I might have the same problem. I'm using the Penrose with the Apple USB-C/USB-A/HDMI adapter. I have to plug/unplug about 6 times before it will stay connected. I have 2 of these adapters and it happens with both. I have a PC where it connects fine. I've contacted support but not heard back.

Ok. Will check this next week a different adapter.

 

[VIgawla]

Regarding best practices to help with battery longevity, are there any recommended with the Penrose? I am of the temperament to charge my headphones immediately whenever I don't use them so I'm always prepared for the longest use when I next use them.

 

[Max Cow Disease]

This is actually the most surprising feedback for us. Mobius and Penrose have the same clamping force – and both headbands will stretch over time (or use the “pillow method” proposed by another Head-Fi’er). There are over 100K units out in the field now with the same headband, clamping force, earpads and we haven’t received any major long-term complaints on this.

I’ve used my Mobius quite a bit now and don’t have any issues with the comfort (and it has let up a bit over time). I’m not too worried about the Penrose X from that standpoint, and assume they’ll sound great. I don’t even use my Mobius optimally (I do aux and bluetooth) and they still sound superb.

@Audeze, by the way my order is through a dealer in Canada, so I’m wondering if you’d happen to know whether that order would be on the way with these recent shipments (Penrose X)? Their order has been placed but they indicated that Richard said to expect them in January, so maybe they missed that Dec 7th cutoff.

Thanks for all the great info you’re providing on here!

 

[Petes67bird]

Is there a way to change the headband pad out too. These pads are terrible, all flatten. I don't want to put the cubes in, I actually just want to put a 20 dollar quality piece in and not this low quality memory foam. Sound is great, 9/10. Quality of pads 1/10.

 

[Audeze]

@Audeze, by the way my order is through a dealer in Canada, so I’m wondering if you’d happen to know whether that order would be on the way with these recent shipments (Penrose X)? Their order has been placed but they indicated that Richard said to expect them in January, so maybe they missed that Dec 7th cutoff.

Thanks for all the great info you’re providing on here!
[/QUOTE]
The transit times even through UPS/Fedex is not easy to determine this year. Typically it takes 2 to 3 days to get a cargo shipment by Air. During holiday season it might take 5 or 6 days. The latest Penrose X shipment took almost 12 days and the shipment (5th to 17th). It was just stuck in Hong Kong with no updates. So we are very reluctant to give any ETAs. Once we get them here, we will send it to Canada in a couple of days.

 

[ramordep]

Anyone here encountering Windows system crashes when inserting the USB dongle?