[Zenvota]

Also is there any way to get the same simulated 7.1/5.1 from games consoles as you do PC over any 3 of the connection methods

No, but perhaps you could use a mixamp or something similar that can accept a 5.1 signal over optical and uses dolby headphone or dts headphone x for the virtual surround.

 

[HolyGeesus]

No, but perhaps you could use a mixamp or something similar that can accept a 5.1 signal over optical and uses dolby headphone or dts headphone x for the virtual surround.

I have an old Pioneer DIR2000 amp from an old pair of wireless headphones that I might have an experiment with. They simulate the 3 Dolby Headphones standards. Thanks. I guess I just want reassurance that I won’t do any damage.

What I don’t really understand is why a PC would be more proficient in producing a virtual surround field in comparison to an Xbox with its Dolby Atmos Headphones support when you are dealing with a device that only has 2 speakers either way.

Thank you all for your invaluable help so far. It’s appreciated.

 

[misteral201103]

What I don’t really understand is why a PC would be more proficient in producing a virtual surround field in comparison to an Xbox with its Dolby Atmos Headphones support when you are dealing with a device that only has 2 speakers either way.

I'm happy to be corrected but I believe the issue isn't that a PC does a better job, just that a PC is set up to allow USB plug and play sound devices whereas the Xbox is not. So the Mobius can be plugged into a PC or Mac and used as an external sound device, with the full 5.1 or 7.1 signal sent to the headphones for decoding, whereas the XBox does not allow for this functionality via USB.
That's why you would need to pre-virtualise the audio output of the XBox and then send that, already processed, signal to the Mobius.

Hope that helps (and hope it's accurate!!)

 

[Zenvota]

What I don’t really understand is why a PC would be more proficient in producing a virtual surround field in comparison to an Xbox with its Dolby Atmos Headphones support when you are dealing with a device that only has 2 speakers either way.

As @misteral201103 said, it's a functionality issue. Consoles can output compressed 5.1 via toslink or uncompressed 7.1 via hdmi. Either of these interfaces would be cumbersome for a headphone and would require an external base. Audeze chose having everything built into the headphones, due to the head tracking, amping, wireless functionality, etc.

The xbox outputting an atmos for headphones mix is a plus really, if you can figure out your volume issues, because you can still have surround sound over headphones and the Mobius transducers render binaural mixes better than many dynamics.

In regards to the volume issues, you mentioned you experienced clipping. When testing something like that it would be recommended to start with the external amps volume very low, and raise the mobius internal volume all the way or almost all the way, then go back and raise the external amps volume, this way you avoid clipping.

 

[misteral201103]

the Mobius transducers render binaural mixes better than many dynamics.

I wholeheartedly second that.

 

[HolyGeesus]

As @misteral201103 said, it's a functionality issue. Consoles can output compressed 5.1 via toslink or uncompressed 7.1 via hdmi.

So there isn’t really any way to output 5.1 (at a minimum) from a games console directly to the Mobius without downmixing? How about one of those external sound cards that offer USB support, such as the Soundblaster X G5 or any other that offers USB DAC support? Could I not output from toslink to one of those cards and then at least get 5.1 that way? Is the difference likely to justify the cost over a 2.0 signal being processed by Dolby Headphone?

 

[Audeze]

What I don’t really understand is why a PC would be more proficient in producing a virtual surround field in comparison to an Xbox with its Dolby Atmos Headphones support when you are dealing with a device that only has 2 speakers either way.
Thank you all for your invaluable help so far. It’s appreciated.

The difference is not between PC and Xbox. Xbox is a PC anyway. Head-tracking improves the 3D perception even when the user is not moving the head (small micro movements are always present). If we want to do head-tracking effectively, the latency should be low. Sending the data from the headphone to the PC or console, doing the processing and getting the data back introduces latency that reduces the impact of the virtualization.
The issue with consoles at the moment is, we have no easy way of getting the 5.1 out to the headphones. Mobius by itself was a huge undertaking for us. We determined going for the PC gaming market as a first step was the easier than trying to do everything.

 

[KaiSc]

Regarding AUX INPUT - Analog Connection:

To know what (headphones) amplifier or line output level would be necessary or suited to drive Mobius Aux Input I have measured it's parameters.

WARNING: anything with a significantly higher output voltage is said to be capable of destroying Mobius!
Where this destructive limit is, only Audeze can answer, and (@KMann @Audeze ) I think they should give figures here.

Explanation: Mobius Aux Input uses an ADC (Analog to Digital Converter) with a fixed maximum input, which does not change when you turn Mobius volume control.
If you go beyond the ADC's limits Mobius will distort, no matter what the volume control on Mobius is set to.


The maximum undistorted level the Aux Input can handle is: 1.6 Veff.
The Aux Input's impedance is: 4250 Ohms, independent of frequency within the audio range.
The sensitivity of Mobius thru the Aux Input, 3D off, DefaultEQ, on Bruel&Kjaer 4153 coupler: 108dB SPL @ 1Volt, 1kHz.

This means, anything to drive the Aux does NOT need a lot of current, but about 1 volt of output voltage (not to be confused with the "hard to drive" discussion for high impedance dynamic headphones).
An iPhone, e.g, can do that.
Most desktop CD players line outs have 2V, so they are suited to drive the Mobius Aux Input, the 2dB overvoltage is reduced enough by the player's output resistance on most models.

Mobius is significantly louder (ca. 3dB) then a Sennheiser HD800, so anything that can drive the HD800 to sufficient level can easily drive Mobius.


BTW: the frequency responses are almost identical between USB and Aux, except for a low frequency roll off with a lower corner frequency of 22 Hz on the Aux, and a tiny deviation of 0.5dB in the left cup caused by different acoustic properties when the plugs are in or not.

 

[Zenvota]

So there isn’t really any way to output 5.1 (at a minimum) from a games console directly to the Mobius without downmixing? How about one of those external sound cards that offer USB support, such as the Soundblaster X G5 or any other that offers USB DAC support? Could I not output from toslink to one of those cards and then at least get 5.1 that way? Is the difference likely to justify the cost over a 2.0 signal being processed by Dolby Headphone?

Well the Mobius has usb... so if a sound blasterx g5 worked via usb with the xbox or ps4 so would the mobius, but those external sound cards work with the xbox/ps4 via toslink(optical). They dont have a way of outputting 5.1 after that, only the binaural stereo signal from sbx, dolby headphone, dts headphone x, etc.

 

[HolyGeesus]

Quick update after my experiment with my (ancient) Pioneer Dolby Headphone amp, and I've gone from being pretty pleased with these to very happy indeed. Xbox gaming is transformed now, with a lot more volume and I had a brief buzz of 'Let the Corpses Tan' which has a very dynamic audio track and was blown away. Not a great deal more volume but definitely more directionality in there now.

Very, very happy. Thank you all for the help.

P.S I'm a secret fan of the ballistic pre-set now. Can't wait for the next firmware update so I can lock it in there.

 

[KaiSc]

Quick update after my experiment with my (ancient) Pioneer Dolby Headphone amp, and I've gone from being pretty pleased with these to very happy indeed. Xbox gaming is transformed now, with a lot more volume and I had a brief buzz of 'Let the Corpses Tan' which has a very dynamic audio track and was blown away. Not a great deal more volume but definitely more directionality in there now.

Very, very happy. Thank you all for the help.

P.S I'm a secret fan of the ballistic pre-set now. Can't wait for the next firmware update so I can lock it in there.

If you like BallisticEQ try RacingEQ too, it's a tiny bit deeper and clearer.

 

[MaxManUp]

Can Audeze give some details on what's in the next firmware update, and specifically whether they are gonna introduce customized channel balance sliders?

I've tried using Windows Control Panel to adjust the volume in the right side - I think they're channels 2, 3 and 4 but I can't be certain.

EDIT: Did some testing, it appears channels 1 and 2 are the L/R channels.

 

[HolyGeesus]

I feel like I need to post a follow up as after another couple of days experimenting I am now in love with these headphones. The conclusion I have arrived at is you need to disable all external processing and just let the mobius work it’s magic. At least with 2.0. Whatever wizardry is going on under the hood, feeding it stereo signals that have already been virtually converted to surround nullifies their effectiveness.

Even with the Xbox and it’s dolby Atmos Headphones processing - disabling it is the way to go. I feel bad posting my initial slight disappointment from before and hopefully this praise can go some way to convincing potential buyers how good they are.

After removing my Dolby Headphones amp from the chain earlier I rewatched Let The Corpses Tan and I was blown away. This is via Bluetooth too (streaming from an Apple TV). I have no idea how the techs at Audeze are doing it, but is as dynamic a soundtrack I have heard through headphones.

 

[Zenvota]

I feel like I need to post a follow up as after another couple of days experimenting I am now in love with these headphones. The conclusion I have arrived at is you need to disable all external processing and just let the mobius work it’s magic. At least with 2.0. Whatever wizardry is going on under the hood, feeding it stereo signals that have already been virtually converted to surround nullifies their effectiveness.

Even with the Xbox and it’s dolby Atmos Headphones processing - disabling it is the way to go. I feel bad posting my initial slight disappointment from before and hopefully this praise can go some way to convincing potential buyers how good they are.

After removing my Dolby Headphones amp from the chain earlier I rewatched Let The Corpses Tan and I was blown away. This is via Bluetooth too (streaming from an Apple TV). I have no idea how the techs at Audeze are doing it, but is as dynamic a soundtrack I have heard through headphones.

Correct, typically you don't want to use external virtualization with the Mobius' 3d on, however, you can feed the Mobius binaural stereo and turn off the Mobius' 3d. The latter is almost always better due to the headtracking, unless youre dealing with PRIR from a Realiser =p

Glad you're enjoying, they are a fairly complex headset with some learning curve so it's understandable that first impressions can be lackluster.

The Mobius uses Waves NX for virtualization and headtracking, imho, one of the better convolution engines, beatin out only by the Realiser and OOYH. It's all relatively older technology(binaural sound) thats seen some amazing advancements in recent years. When you have a system that can accurately render all that data it sounds incredibly lifelike. Someone in the OOYH recently started running tracks through OOYH, then resampling to DSD512 and playing back on an iBasso DX200 with a pair of Audeze LCDi4s to great effect. Portable private hifi loudspeaker stereo listening, amazing.

 

[ColinMacLaren]

No. The Nvidia shiled only supports 2 channels over USB at the moment.

For Gamestreaming Dolby Atmos should be possible. Plug the Mobius into the SHIELD via USB and use VirtualHere to make it visible on PC.