[acia]

I’d like to add here that Audeze is a stand up company. Their customer service is excellent. They really do try.

However I would like to remind everyone that despite the fact that they have the absolute best intentions things can go wrong.

In the example I gave about my experience with the Audeze Sine 95% of the product was perfect. But that last 5% that went wrong caused the product to be unusable. When all this technology is packed into a product there is pretty high chance that one small piece of the product doesn’t meet the expectation and suddenly the whole product isn’t what it you thought it would be.

Even the big mass market manufacturers get this stuff wrong. For example the Sony WH-1000XM2. It gets great reviews. But ultimately it is flawed enough that I had to return it. It clearly sounds better than any Bose product but using it for an hour I had to wonder why there is no way to wear it without it seriously impinging on my outer ear.

In this case I don’t think hiss is a big deal with there is material playing. But there are so many unknown things that could wrong. At the backer price it’s a bet worth taking for most people this would appeal to. At the retail price I would personally wait and see.

The thing that is scary is that on these forums there isn’t really any encouragement of people who might want to convey that such a deal breaker exists. People did in fact post about the Cipher cable power problem but posts came in really quickly to bury it.

And nobody took that ball and came to a conclusion that the phones are good but only for very low level listening with reduced/compressed dynamics.

For risk averse individuals it’s probably better to wait until you can confirm the kinks have been fully worked out. For those who got the $199/249 price it’s a steal even if some of the features never work. At least you have an active planar magnetic wireless headphone supporting AAC with 1w per channel output. Not a bad deal hiss or no hiss.

I do agree that head tracking and HRTF should be able to enabled or disabled independently. Also I hope that an app can be created to control all the features and effects. If that is not possible due to a design oversight I’d say there’s a good chance it will become a paperweight as my Sines ended up.

It’s a tough business. The whole package needs to nailed 100%. The smallest lapse can turn an otherwise great attempt into something you wouldn’t want to use past the honeymoon period.

1 W per channel?! usually we are talking about mW for mobile DAC!

 

[sxr71]

"Processing on board" and "multichannel" search results attached.



Hope you keep your word and never come back to this thread.

Bye!~

On the first point you win. On the second nothing says multi channel requires USB. One guy says that multichannel does NOT get pushed out by media devices.

The other guy thought exactly what I thought. That this product was meant to consume multichannel audio from consoles. It wasn’t until I came on and asked the tough questions that we realized that multichannel requires PC USB.

Could you find someone that has said that multichannel requires PC USB. Even that guy was confused in the same way. If someone in that part of the thread had the correct answer I will leave.

 

[sxr71]

1 W per channel?! usually we are talking about mW for mobile DAC!

Look at the specs. https://www.audeze.com/products/mobius-series/mobius-headphone

Trust me I looked around before coming here. Balanced 1w per channel.

Planar magnetic is generally power hungry. Audeze is generally less so due to the light weight of the diaphragms and high magnetic flux. But still I know from experience the Cipher limited to 10mW draw just couldn’t get loud enough without compression. So they put an ample 1w here. They corrected that problem that the cipher cable had with this implementation. Headroom requires power. Let’s say you are at 10mW nominal and you want a 20dB peak you will need 1W to hit it.

It’s little consolation to Sine/Cipher users like me but it sorts out that problem for you. How can I not feel like a guinea pig?

 

[acia]

Look at the specs. https://www.audeze.com/products/mobius-series/mobius-headphone

Trust me I looked around before coming here. Balanced 1w per channel.

Planar magnetic is generally power hungry. Audeze is generally less so due to the light weight of the diaphragms and high magnetic flux. But still I know from experience the Cipher limited to 10mW draw just couldn’t get loud enough without compression. So they put an ample 1w here. They corrected that problem that the cipher cable had with this implementation. Headroom requires power. Let’s say you are at 10mW nominal and you want a 20dB peak you will need 1W to hit it.

It’s little consolation to Sine/Cipher users like me but it sorts out that problem for you. How can I not feel like a guinea pig?

Audeze is learning like the rest of us and pushing boundaries too. as others has already pointed out, they need not rework 4k of mobius. that's definitely kudos to them.

this is the third consecutive year i have been buying from them.

as i have said previously, what i am afraid of is some private equity folks dangling good money in front of them, then, one good company to forget. so many examples in the past.

 

[sxr71]

I'd like to repeat the request to be able to activate surround and head tracking seperately, or to be able to switch off surround while leaving head tracking on. It would be a great feature for us console gamers that use Dolby Atmos processing.

There is no head tracking without HRTF processing. If you use Atmos then surround is handled by Atmos and you need Dolby headphone. But PS4 doesn’t do Dolby headphone. And there is no multichannel support for consoles. That is what I came here to find out.

Xbox does handle Dolby Atmos for headphones. But it will not interface with this head tracker which is meant for Waves NX.

But this head tracking cannot by used by Dolby headphone. It can only be used by inbuilt Waves NX HRTF.

This stuff is confusing that’s why the hard questions need to be asked.

 

[sxr71]

Audeze is learning like the rest of us and pushing boundaries too. as others has already pointed out, they need not rework 4k of mobius. that's definitely kudos to them.

this is the third consecutive year i have been buying from them.

as i have said previously, what i am afraid of is some private equity folks dangling good money in front of them, then, one good company to forget. so many examples in the past.

I agree. They are learning and this is much improved product than ones that came before. If I held a grudge I wouldn’t even consider it. As for private equity that’s a whole other discussion about how those run. Sadly it’s an inevitability. Most businesses if not all are built to be acquired by those. Private equity doesn’t care about anything but money.

 

[433521]

Do they a tracking number before / when they ship?

 

[Heavyboxer]

Could you find someone that has said that multichannel requires PC USB. Even that guy was confused in the same way. If someone in that part of the thread had the correct answer I will leave.

When I get interested enough to spend money on a product, I research and ask questions if my research is not adequate. As such, I read the entire thread from post #1. Multi channel only over USB and no support on colsole machines has been mentioned countless times on this thread, from both Audeze as well as beta testers.

I am not going to do another search that you should be doing on your own. Be creative and try similar keywords, wildcards, etc.

Good luck with the realizer a16 and feel free to leave this thread since you have clearly declared it is not for you.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Look at the specs. https://www.audeze.com/products/mobius-series/mobius-headphone

Trust me I looked around before coming here. Balanced 1w per channel.

Planar magnetic is generally power hungry. Audeze is generally less so due to the light weight of the diaphragms and high magnetic flux. But still I know from experience the Cipher limited to 10mW draw just couldn’t get loud enough without compression. So they put an ample 1w here. They corrected that problem that the cipher cable had with this implementation. Headroom requires power. Let’s say you are at 10mW nominal and you want a 20dB peak you will need 1W to hit it.

It’s little consolation to Sine/Cipher users like me but it sorts out that problem for you. How can I not feel like a guinea pig?

Technology gets better at a rapid pace. It’s literally how the entire industry works. Of course an effectively third-generation product is going to be better than first-generation.

 

[ninjames]

Just wanted to say thank you to Audeze for posting a thorough update on the issues on Indiegogo. I know those updates have to be thorough and considered before they go out because they go out to a much wider group of people than updates in this thread, but I would like to note that it was very frustrating to have to look over this thread for a week-plus wondering what's going on. Shipping was put on pause for several days (which results in dozens of new pages in this thread) before an update was provided ... any further issues, please use the Indiegogo updates sooner! A lot of people don't have the time to sort through the arguing going on in this thread.

Looking forward to my Mobius once the wrinkles are ironed out.

 

[sxr71]

Technology gets better at a rapid pace. It’s literally how the entire industry works. Of course an effectively third-generation product is going to be better than first-generation.

I suspect that overall it will about 3 years for it all to settle down. This is great product for right now. But ultimately the ideal would be a system supporting hdmi 2.1 with head tracking, variable refresh rate and 3rd Ambisonics. I just come and check about once every 6 months to see what the current state of the art is. I have become a lot more patient. Where I used to impulse buy stuff, I now just look at what’s out there and just wait until it hits what I want. But for right now for people PC game with headphones this is the best solution on the market.

However regarding the Sine I have to say no “audiophile” company has any business applying gain compression. Just my opinion. It’s just damaging.

 

[raband]

Explain to me why the one poster is still so confused as to request surround head tracking be independently enableable

Probably wants the same thing I do.

Headtracking without any DSP 5.1 emulation being applied to the 2.0 signal that's being received.

The unit to receive the signal from the xBox etc with it's own VSS allied (dolby headphones, sonic etc) and be able to utilise the head tracking as it is.

Don't want it upmixed by the Mobius with its own 2.0 => 7.1 virtual room.

 

[raband]

But ultimately the ideal would be a system supporting hdmi 2.1 with head tracking, variable refresh rate and 3rd Ambisonics.

Smyth A16 should be along these lines with cables required.

Am looking forward to trying it with the Senn RS185 wireless cans (hooked into the A16 via Toslink) - uses "Kleer" rather than blutooth - less latency, higher quality etc.

Will still require the thin cable for the headtracker (will have a play/look for a RF 2.5/3.5mm option to bypass the wires when the unit is out), but should give me an extra degree of freedom than a cabled headphone would.

 

[Vitandus]

Nobody moves their head like that all the time. However, your head is always making small adjustments and moving slightly. This helps with localization and pinpointing sound.

That's why animals that hunt based on sound slowly move their heads, as do human hunters. You go swinging your head around like it's on a rope, you aren't gonna track anything.

 

[sxr71]

Probably wants the same thing I do.

Headtracking without any DSP 5.1 emulation being applied to the 2.0 signal that's being received.

The unit to receive the signal from the xBox etc with it's own VSS allied (dolby headphones, sonic etc) and be able to utilise the head tracking as it is.

Don't want it upmixed by the Mobius with its own 2.0 => 7.1 virtual room.

The Möbius does not upmix at all. It simply applies HRTF from Waves NX. What that means is that simply tries to take the soundstage out from inside your head and tries to put it in front of you.

If you apply it on a two channel signal it will try to make it sound like you have two speakers in front of you. If you apply it to a 5.1 signal it makes it seems like there are 5 speakers around you.

That is all it does. And the head tracking just makes it so that if you turn your head the speakers stay in the same place as actual physical speakers would.

Please look for the Waves NX app on iOS and I believe they have it for Android. Try them. That is the exact same processing these headphones have built in.

I just tried just now. I don’t want say what I think about it. Just try it yourself. The app has the exact same measurements the Windows app for the Möbius has. The app allows you add their head tracker.

https://www.waves.com/nx

Take a look. It’s exactly the same just built into these phones.

One does not work without the other because the head tracking just adjusts the HTRF processing to keep the speakers in place.

Atmos headphone does it’s own HTRF. You cannot use the head tracker to control the HTRF of Dolby Atmos.