[MICHAELSD]

I hope the Audeze wizards can come up with a cipher replacement that works across devices. Sine at the current price is a steal. Sounds like you’ve got the itch. Can’t go wrong. Will be interested in your comparisons. Sine is a work of art and definitely sounds great.

By the way, Mobius has an onboard Cipher DAC/amp that works over Bluetooth and USB with practically any device.

 

[clerkpalmer]

Funnily enough I was trying to source a new Sine right before Audeze announced Mobius. At this price I couldn’t pass up the opportunity to try the Sine again as I became quite fond of it and the build quality is phenomenal. I’ll make room in my collection...

Imagine a bt add on for sine and something like isine20 with cipher dsp capability along those lines.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Imagine a bt add on for sine and something like isine20 with cipher dsp capability along those lines.

I would consider using a Bluetooth Sine at the gym since it’s more portable, but I think Mobius scratches the Bluetooth itch. I think the real magic with the Sine and EL-8 comes with lossless music. Planar magnetic headphones present the biggest difference between lossy and lossless that I’ve ever heard. The imaging is just incredible, there’s precise imaging in a lossless song which then becomes noticeably more jumbled when switching to a lossy version. Such a minute difference wouldn’t be picked up on by lesser headphones, or most dynamic drivers I’ve heard. I don’t want to post any premature opinions but I do think the Sine for purely music listening is more resolving, though again that’s comparing listening to lossless via Tidal vs Bluetooth on Mobius. There are details I heard on Sine I didn’t even hear on the EL-8.

 

[PCX]

https://www.audeze.com/audeze-hq-application

Thanks, the app is showing the current battery life at 66%, not 10% battery level as on bt connection in mobile device.

Also, do you notice any "sound noise"? is this the standard noise level for an active headphone? I notice them when no sound is being transmitted and that is unpleasant through the ears. I have other headphones from other manufactures (Bose, Hifiman, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Shure, etc) and there is nothing like this. I'm just checking to make sure mines are not the defective batches. Thanks

 

[Zenvota]

Thanks, the app is showing the current battery life at 66%, not 10% battery level as on bt connection in mobile device.

Also, do you notice any "sound noise"? is this the standard noise level for an active headphone? I notice them when no sound is being transmitted and that is unpleasant through the ears. I have other headphones from other manufactures (Bose, Hifiman, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Shure, etc) and there is nothing like this. I'm just checking to make sure mines are not the defective batches. Thanks

Some hear it some don't. I'll hear it when they first turn on and then it subsides and if i push the driver against my ear I can barely hear it.

Some that hear it sent their units back to Audeze and they measured within spec and nothing could be done. Some that heard it sent their units to other people who didn't hear it. Just the nature of active headphones and different ears.

 

[RamSpencer]

I've heard this argument before, and I respectfully disagree. If a genre of music requires more bass, let the producer put the right amout in. They are far more qualified to EQ than the consumer, who generally will make things worse.

EQ is for professionals.

Have you never been clubbing or listened to Hip Hop? Wow, Sub-bass boost with a little warmth across the lows is seriously a thing and a lot of music lacks it's intended muscle without it! A lot of consumer audio equipment is tuned for modern Pop, EDM, R&B and Hip-hop already and if the producer was to crank up the lows, it would then extend it to sound really muddy. Mixing and mastering engineers set levels for different genre demographics of consumers these days and that includes the way the average sound system is calibrated. There should definitely really be better options to extend the bass in the presets.

If you're a speakers fan, the 3d audio is very nice. It sounds like a pretty decent emulation of a good set of speakers without a powered sub. Would be sweet to have a preset that sounded more like one that has a powered sub (Not a massively overblown one). The planar drivers should have the capability for that. The (clean) sub-bass frequency is actually being resolved unlike most sets of bookshelf speakers.

When you engage 3D the bass does loose some presence and get's a bit bass light. The music preset over compensates for the slightly extended highs and the Mobius loses some sparkle and some upper mid presence. It sounds a bit duller. The "flat" preset is basically EQ off and yes it has an interesting character but is definitely not very "flat" sounding and it's a little bass light....or at least not really full or well rounded bass. What I think we really need is an IOS app Cipher style multi-band EQ like @Audeze said was probably coming down the pipeline at some point. Any status report on the new firmware and companion app?

 

[RamSpencer]

I have understood it. I know a good producer will usually listen to the work on something more representative of low-fi (or horri-fi) to make sure it works in cars and uttlerly compressed radio stations. However no competent producer ruin their work for posterity deliberately just because a number of people are more interested in badly reproduced bass than music.

I am worried that the public are being trained to think exaggerated bass is flat.

A heavy bassline can be enormously musical, but crudely EQ-ed and it will no long be.

In order to find a reasonable happy medium these days, for certain genres, you know they're cranking the bass way, way up already. A hip-hop engineer for example just assumes it and mixes and masters for it...... It's also rather pronounced in other modern genres.

 

[rincejester]

Thanks, the app is showing the current battery life at 66%, not 10% battery level as on bt connection in mobile device.

Are there other bt devices that are connected? I know my phone shows the battery of my bt speaker over my headphones.

 

[gtb75]

Is there an ETA on the new firmware and new Audeze HQ application to install it yet? I know there are beta firmware versions out there but I would like to stay on the "official" release. This has been asked several times recently but no response from Audeze.

 

[X-Frame]

Is there an ETA on the new firmware and new Audeze HQ application to install it yet? I know there are beta firmware versions out there but I would like to stay on the "official" release. This has been asked several times recently but no response from Audeze.

I'm also curious if there is at least an estimated ETA. Is it days away, or weeks?

 

[jagwap]

Have you never been clubbing or listened to Hip Hop? Wow, Sub-bass boost with a little warmth across the lows is seriously a thing and a lot of music lacks it's intended muscle without it! A lot of consumer audio equipment is tuned for modern Pop, EDM, R&B and Hip-hop already and if the producer was to crank up the lows, it would then extend it to sound really muddy. Mixing and mastering engineers set levels for different genre demographics of consumers these days and that includes the way the average sound system is calibrated. There should definitely really be better options to extend the bass in the presets.

I have, and I know, but it's wrong. Beats has ruined the perception of what is accurate musical sound amongst the public. Very few professionals consider them useful unless paid to use them. Producers add what they want, and perhaps they have to turn the bass lower than they would like because they know some ejits will max out their EQ.

If you're a speakers fan, the 3d audio is very nice. It sounds like a pretty decent emulation of a good set of speakers without a powered sub. Would be sweet to have a preset that sounded more like one that has a powered sub (Not a massively overblown one). The planar drivers should have the capability for that. The (clean) sub-bass frequency is actually being resolved unlike most sets of bookshelf speakers.

I disagree. If you can hear a sub you have turned it incorrectly, which is way to common. It should only be significanty noticable in its absence when turned off.

When you engage 3D the bass does loose some presence and get's a bit bass light. The music preset over compensates for the slightly extended highs and the Mobius loses some sparkle and some upper mid presence. It sounds a bit duller. The "flat" preset is basically EQ off and yes it has an interesting character but is definitely not very "flat" sounding and it's a little bass light....or at least not really full or well rounded bass. What I think we really need is an IOS app Cipher style multi-band EQ like @Audeze said was probably coming down the pipeline at some point. Any status report on the new firmware and companion app?

The mobius is not bass light. The rest of the market has rewired peoples' perception of what is neutral. Speakers have room gain, which is what is often used as an excuse to add bass to headphones, but the delay in the room again means it gets masked out by our brain on transients. So again, wrong.

Try flat for a while. Perhaps with a genre that suits it, e.ie.i where timing is crutial. Do it long enough to adjust to it. Then go back to bass boosted. Is the timing of the music better in flat or mangled?

 

[rincejester]

I have, and I know, but it's wrong. Beats has ruined the perception of what is accurate musical sound amongst the public. Very few professionals consider them useful unless paid to use them. Producers add what they want, and perhaps they have to turn the bass lower than they would like because they know some ejits will max out their EQ.

I am slightly at a loss as to how there is a wrong way to listen to music. Even more so at being able to set it at the feet of beats and apple.

 

[jagwap]

I am slightly at a loss as to how there is a wrong way to listen to music. Even more so at being able to set it at the feet of beats and apple.

Bass boost when done by someone outside of the performance/recording loop is a form of distortion. It also changes phase and group delay distorting the signal.

I do not lay it on Apple, as they have reduced this when buying Beats. Original Beats added 12-15dB of bass boost. This is wrong to insist people hear their music this way. Apple are closer to the Harman curve, and I imagine they have their own research.

I believe people should be given a blank sheet: flat response, which they can move away from the original musical message if they want. But +15dB is more than most EQ can flatten.

Music is usually right when you listen to what the producer and musician heard. If you change it the timing will change and you are not hearing how they played anymore.

 

[rincejester]

Bass boost when done by someone outside of the performance/recording loop is a form of distortion. It also changes phase and group delay distorting the signal.

I do not lay it on Apple, as they have reduced this when buying Beats. Original Beats added 12-15dB of bass boost. This is wrong to insist people hear their music this way. Apple are closer to the Harman curve, and I imagine they have their own research.

I believe people should be given a blank sheet: flat response, which they can move away from the original musical message if they want. But +15dB is more than most EQ can flatten.

Music is usually right when you listen to what the producer and musician heard. If you change it the timing will change and you are not hearing how they played anymore.

Let me start by saying you seem, from all your messages, to be far more knowledgeable than I am, and most likely know far more than I would ever know, much like the average producer knows more than the average consumer in the abstract. That said, my issue is more in the point about music having a "right" point. If someone wishes to purchase a good or music to sound like X, why is it wrong if they want it to sound like they want it to?

I am not personally smart enough to mess with eq to get it like I want it to sound, so instead I just use different headphones, Is that wrong? I have sonarworks so I could force things to flat, but it seems to be to getting into a weird spot.

I have fought a lot of ear issues in the past few years, to the point I question if what I hear what others hear. I have kind of settled on the point that, much color, sound is subjective to the point we all don't hear the same thing even if we hear the exact same thing.

 

[RamSpencer]

I have, and I know, but it's wrong. Beats has ruined the perception of what is accurate musical sound amongst the public. Very few professionals consider them useful unless paid to use them. Producers add what they want, and perhaps they have to turn the bass lower than they would like because they know some ejits will max out their EQ.



I disagree. If you can hear a sub you have turned it incorrectly, which is way to common. It should only be significanty noticable in its absence when turned off. Emphasized base is a popular sound for certain kinds of music. Beats can't resolve well enough to do it so they bump the mid bass up too much and it bleeds into the rest of the music. These could do it. Why is there no setting for that?



The mobius is not bass light. The rest of the market has rewired peoples' perception of what is neutral. Speakers have room gain, which is what is often used as an excuse to add bass to headphones, but the delay in the room again means it gets masked out by our brain on transients. So again, wrong.

Try flat for a while. Perhaps with a genre that suits it, e.ie.i where timing is crutial. Do it long enough to adjust to it. Then go back to bass boosted. Is the timing of the music better in flat or mangled?

I like the Mobius. It's not Bass light in general. It's a little bass light with 3d on in default. "Music" is a bit boring and clipped too much in the upper frequencies. It's not nearly as dialed in as Default. There isn't really a great setting for EDM and Hip-hop with 3d engaged. It's just not there. The Sub-bass is there. I know what t listen for. I've worked in a recording studio. I've worked in a club. I'm not "wrong". Strong, exaggerated bass is a popular setting for some forms of modern music. Most headphone products can't resolve well enough to do without lot's of audible distortion and making the mids muddy. These could. Where is the EDM/club, hip-hop setting? There's no reason why it's missing. These are not marketed as audiophile only headphones. Racing has nice sub bass but definitely isn't tuned there for that.

Flat isn't using any DSP and isn't the intended tuning for the headphones. I like the character of it, but it obviously is a little rough in some frequencies. Some are ducked and there are some peaks. Especially the highs. It works for a lot of stuff but is a little harsh on some stuff. The lows don't have that nice Harmon-esque curve on that setting either.

You're not right. You're rigid in how it should be in a perfect world, which isn't this one. Music is mixed in all sorts of ways these days. EDM and Hip-hop for example are meant to to be played on resolving bass heavy equipment. Just go to any show and pay attention.Or go to the Imax.

@Audeze