[Travis9]

Sweeeeet. I listened to the O2+ODAC at CanJam too. You're in for a big difference with the WA7tp. Hopefully the upgraded dac in the newer WA7 has a significant edge over the older one, which itself was no slouch. Either way I'd immediately grab some $30 Sylvania JAN 5814 power supply upgrade tubes to play around with. They're an amazing bang for buck set of tubes to get you started. Enjoy!

Thanks! I'll definitely throw the 5814s in too when I go to buy the WA7 pair. I know nothing about tubes or what kinds there are. In your opinion, what are some well known tubes I should look into trying first?

 

[bahula03]

I didn't listen to that one so I can't really comment on it. I was more pointing out the differences between SS and an all tube amp's sound and/or why tube amps are so popular. I've only heard hybrid tube amps in portable form. They do sound slightly smoother, but not even close to an all tube setup(WA8 as example..huge difference from hybrid portable sound). I'm curious. How would you compare the hybrid MJ2's sound to an all tube rig?

Honestly, I haven't had enough experience with full-tube setups to have an opinion well informed enough to influence other's buying choices. I do have enough experience with the Mjolnir 2 to say that leaving it out of the discussion, and only talking about Schiit's solid state amps or writing it off as similar to lesser portable hybrids, is a disservice to folks doing research. 

 

[SuperU]

I think I can answer this. I listened to Schiit's whole line of solid state amps with my LCD-Xs from bottom to top at CanJam recently. They sound fantastically clear and dynamic, but dry dry and more dry compared to tubes. If you're going for accuracy as in what the artist intended you to hear then go for the Schiit. Tube amps sound just as detailed but can give a warmer, smoother, and sometimes full on liquid 3D sound that is flat out beautiful. They do this by inherently adding small amounts of even order harmonic distortions. Not the crackley harsh odd order distortions like if you crank crappy earbuds to the max on a phone, but basically inaudible rich and pleasing distortions that sound amazing. Kinda hard to explain, you gotta hear it.

Anyway, another advantage of tubes is you can change the sound signature to what you like. Solid state Schiit you're stuck with how it sounds out of the box like it or not. My advice would be to start with the WA7tp if you wanna try tubes. I switched from that amp to a WA22 recently, but kept the WA7 cuz it's that good. Also, swapping tubes for the WA7tp is relatively cheap. You can get that amp to sound more flat and accurate, wide and clean, or fully deep, lush, and liquid for $30-$150 per set of upgrade tubes. It's so cool. And it looks fantastic! Also, it is a known fact that even the guys at Woo advertise in their marketing, that the WA7tp and LCD-Xs are a marvelous pairing. You won't be disappointed. There's even an extensive tube swapping guide thread for the WA7 here on head-fi. Anyway, good luck! I'm excited to see what you decide!

Edit: Disadvantage of tubes is they don't last forever. I think most tubes are rated to last 5000-9000hrs from new or New Old Stock(NOS..older model tubes that have been sitting around somewhere for decades new and unused). That's a LOT of listening. Most people stock up on the ones they really like though. However, some of the absolute best sounding ones are a bit hard to come by, but not impossible and DEFINITELY worth it.

Have you heard the Ember 2 amp? Just curious how it stacks up against the WA7tp/WA22.
 
The Ember 2 is not all tubes. Just has 1. But it kicks my Asgard 2 to the curb to me. I think that must be because, I've learned, I like a tube amp better. 
 
The price difference is a lot between the Ember 2 and the WA7tp/WA22. So hopefully there would be a significant sound difference.

 

[514077]

A bit OT.  Has anyone else had any success trying out that VST program for FB2K and the X?
I'm at a loss.

 

[kyle1010]

Honestly, I haven't had enough experience with full-tube setups to have an opinion well informed enough to influence other's buying choices. I do have enough experience with the Mjolnir 2 to say that leaving it out of the discussion, and only talking about Schiit's solid state amps or writing it off as similar to lesser portable hybrids, is a disservice to folks doing research. 

Ok...well...by all means shine your Mjolnir 2 light on us all. Impressions?

 

[kyle1010]

Thanks! I'll definitely throw the 5814s in too when I go to buy the WA7 pair. I know nothing about tubes or what kinds there are. In your opinion, what are some well known tubes I should look into trying first?

No prob! Honestly, before I bought the WA7tp I read this whole tube rolling thread like five times..

http://www.head-fi.org/t/763045/review-wa7-lcd-2f-dac-shoot-out-tube-guide-updated

It's a gold mine of info on the WA7tp and tubes. Jeb nails it on the impressions. All the tubes I purchased based on his reviews pretty much sounded exactly as he describes. Except for the Mullard CV4003s and the EH gold pins for the amp section. His impressions are with LCD-2Fs so the LCD-Xs we have maybe react a little different to a couple of the tubes discussed. Some of my own thoughts on that are in there too. It's a great read though. Check it out!

Edit: My personal favorites are the CBS Hytron 5815a, Sylvania JAN 5814, and Siemens ECC82. The Mullards are great if you want clean, slightly warm, and flat. Almost solid state like. Not much tube magic or way out of head soundstaging/imaging or bass. I got bored and sold em but a lot of people love them.

 

[La Bestiole]

Hello lcd-x lovers. I'd like to request your advices : I've been offered an lcd-x and I have nothing to power it. I listen to music mainly on my computer and I don't want to spend a huge amount of money on this. Budget : 300 to max 400 € ( I live in europe). For an amp+dac i could put a bit more, max 450. À friend suggested the fostex hpa4. Also saw they were about to release à balanced version, no idea if it's good with the lcd-x. God i'm so lost

 

[johnzz4]

Hello lcd-x lovers. I'd like to request your advices : I've been offered an lcd-x and I have nothing to power it. I listen to music mainly on my computer and I don't want to spend a huge amount of money on this. Budget : 300 to max 400 € ( I live in europe). For an amp+dac i could put a bit more, max 450. À friend suggested the fostex hpa4. Also saw they were about to release à balanced version, no idea if it's good with the lcd-x. God i'm so lost

I have the JDS Labs Element - Great bang for the buck and pairs very nicely with the X.

 

[Focker]

  @krzysmac Cables are bit of a controversial topic. Personally, I have never heard a bit of difference in sound quality from "upgrading" cables. That said, there are many people that swear they improve the sound quality. My advice is to start with the stock cables as @PAM005 has suggested. After you're used to the sound, then go forth and try other cables and see if you can hear a difference.
 
The LCD-X does come with both 4-pin XLR balanced cable and 6.35 mm single-ended cables. There are advantages to using balanced cables; so given the option, I'd use balanced over single-ended. You can google balanced audio for more information.

 
For some reason it's always the nicest looking ones that people say make the biggest difference 

 

[Travis9]

No prob! Honestly, before I bought the WA7tp I read this whole tube rolling thread like five times..

http://www.head-fi.org/t/763045/review-wa7-lcd-2f-dac-shoot-out-tube-guide-updated

It's a gold mine of info on the WA7tp and tubes. Jeb nails it on the impressions. All the tubes I purchased based on his reviews pretty much sounded exactly as he describes. Except for the Mullard CV4003s and the EH gold pins for the amp section. His impressions are with LCD-2Fs so the LCD-Xs we have maybe react a little different to a couple of the tubes discussed. Some of my own thoughts on that are in there too. It's a great read though. Check it out!

Edit: My personal favorites are the CBS Hytron 5815a, Sylvania JAN 5814, and Siemens ECC82. The Mullards are great if you want clean, slightly warm, and flat. Almost solid state like. Not much tube magic or way out of head soundstaging/imaging or bass. I got bored and sold em but a lot of people love them.

Well I guess I know what I'll be looking at all night! I have a lot to learn.. This should keep me occupied for a week or two while I make a bit more money, lol.

A couple more more dumb questions - am I supposed to only replace the tubes in just the PSU unite, just the actual amp, or both? Do I need 2 or 4 of the same tube? Is it a good idea to miss-match one tube with one that's different? Is it a good idea to change tubes while it's still on(going out on a limb and saying it's not)?

 

[Badas]

Well I guess I know what I'll be looking at all night! I have a lot to learn.. This should keep me occupied for a week or two while I make a bit more money, lol.

A couple more more dumb questions - am I supposed to only replace the tubes in just the PSU unite, just the actual amp, or both? Do I need 2 or 4 of the same tube? Is it a good idea to miss-match one tube with one that's different? Is it a good idea to change tubes while it's still on(going out on a limb and saying it's not)?

Changing all tubes will provide the best results. Tube manufactures don't spend $$'s on good tubes. To keep production costs down.
 
Never change a tube with the amp on. There is a risk of electrical shock, amp damage and burns.
 
Try and match as close as possible. Don't have to go crazy and pay extra for 2% closely matched. Woo amp has a auto bias control circuit to match tubes. It is a good idea to have the same construction on tubes.
 
Lastly. When using a tube amp. Always have a load. Tube electrical current has to go somewhere. Either speakers or HP's. If they don't have a load the transformers overheat and can blow.
 
I've been playing around a lot this week with tubes. It is fun. I've got seven tubes working in a amp designed to run five.

See below:
 

 

 

[kyle1010]

Well I guess I know what I'll be looking at all night! I have a lot to learn.. This should keep me occupied for a week or two while I make a bit more money, lol.

A couple more more dumb questions - am I supposed to only replace the tubes in just the PSU unite, just the actual amp, or both? Do I need 2 or 4 of the same tube? Is it a good idea to miss-match one tube with one that's different? Is it a good idea to change tubes while it's still on(going out on a limb and saying it's not)?

Badas definitely has you covered with the answers to your questions. One thing I'll add though is that with the WA7tp you'll really only hear the big differences in sound signature when you swap out the PSU tubes. Weird right? No audio runs through that section, it just converts AC power to DC power and sends that to the amp section. But somehow that makes a huge impact on the sound. I'm still trying to get my Audio Electronics/Acoustics professor at school to explain to me why that is. It's something about when the amp draws power, certain PSU tubes allow more "sag" in voltage during larger draws and some don't. You know what..it glows..and it sounds amazing..screw it..it's magic.
 
Anyway, I swapped out the stock amp tubes to Woo's upgrade option Electro Harmonix gold pin tubes cuz I was curious. Basically that was a waste. I tried them with all of my different PSU tubes and everything was sounding oddly similar. No tube warmth, compressed soundstage, no 3D sound, minimal bass, just really clean sounding but boring. They've been sitting in my tube drawer collecting dust since that night. The stock amp tubes are great. Any shortcomings they have in the form of tiny tiny amounts of grain is smoothed over by the PSU tube upgrades. This is just IMHO rockin the WA7tp/LCD-X combo for over a year. In fact, even though I've moved up to the WA22 and a Chord dac, I find myself missing the WA7's sound sometimes. I'm still in the break-in period with the WA22, but lemme tell ya, it's gonna cost me a lot in tubes for that amp to get back some of the qualities I miss from the WA7tp. But that's half the fun of this hobby!
 
Quick pro tip: When it's listening time, always turn on a tube amp and give it 10min or so to warm up before you play anything. Yes, it'll pass sound after 1min or so, but it will sound pretty bad and it's not good for the amp. Also, with tube amps you'll notice that they sound better and better as they warm up more. Usually at about the 30min to 1hr mark is when the WA7 really started to drop my jaw. It's so cool.

 

[kyle1010]

 
Changing all tubes will provide the best results. Tube manufactures don't spend $$'s on good tubes. To keep production costs down.
 
Never change a tube with the amp on. There is a risk of electrical shock, amp damage and burns.
 
Try and match as close as possible. Don't have to go crazy and pay extra for 2% closely matched. Woo amp has a auto bias control circuit to match tubes. It is a good idea to have the same construction on tubes.
 
Lastly. When using a tube amp. Always have a load. Tube electrical current has to go somewhere. Either speakers or HP's. If they don't have a load the transformers overheat and can blow.
 
I've been playing around a lot this week with tubes. It is fun. I've got seven tubes working in a amp designed to run five.

See below:
 

 

Dude you are the Supreme Dark Lord of tubes. Who else has the guts to do this to their amp?? And it probably sounds unreal good. We're not worthy..

 

[Badas]

 
Dude you are the Supreme Dark Lord of tubes. Who else has the guts to do this to their amp?? And it probably sounds unreal good. We're not worthy..

I'm the Dark Lord.

I think that is a compliment. I'm going to take it that way.

 
I'm getting everything with this tube arrangement. Detail, warmth, ungodly power from 4 power tubes and big bloody bass. It suits the LCD-X so well. I'm a happy chappie. 

 

[kyle1010]

I'm the Dark Lord. I think that is a compliment. I'm going to take it that way.

I'm getting everything with this tube arrangement. Detail, warmth, ungodly power from 4 power tubes and big bloody bass. It suits the LCD-X so well. I'm a happy chappie. 

Definitely a compliment. My WA22 wants to be like yours when it grows up.