[416288]

Hey guys,
 
I'll just jump right in:  I'm in the market for a pair of Audeze headphones, and I'm having an existential crisis over which model.  The LCD-2F was the first and only LCD-series can I've heard, and I was positively in love with them.  I hear the LCD-X prides itself on neutrality and it's a viable studio / production / mastering tool (along with a pair of monitors, of course), and that really appeals to me as pro audio is my passion.  I know of people who use the HD800 regularly as a tool for mixing and mastering, and I really want to get some opinions on if you guys think the LCD-X qualify in the same way.
 
At the same time, the LCD-3 are supposedly "that much better", but sacrifice some of the neutrality apparently.  Would the LCD-3 qualify as neutral enough to master with?  I'm torn.  Help!

 

[SuperU]

  Hey guys,
 
I'll just jump right in:  I'm in the market for a pair of Audeze headphones, and I'm having an existential crisis over which model.  The LCD-2F was the first and only LCD-series can I've heard, and I was positively in love with them.  I hear the LCD-X prides itself on neutrality and it's a viable studio / production / mastering tool (along with a pair of monitors, of course), and that really appeals to me as pro audio is my passion.  I know of people who use the HD800 regularly as a tool for mixing and mastering, and I really want to get some opinions on if you guys think the LCD-X qualify in the same way.
 
At the same time, the LCD-3 are supposedly "that much better", but sacrifice some of the neutrality apparently.  Would the LCD-3 qualify as neutral enough to master with?  I'm torn.  Help!

The LCD-X is absolutely good enough to master with. Beyond good enough.

 

[reddog]

The LCD-X is absolutely good enough to master with. Beyond good enough.

Hearing words like yours, makes me want to go abuse my credit card. Lol.

 

[money4me247]

Hey guys,

I'll just jump right in:  I'm in the market for a pair of Audeze headphones, and I'm having an existential crisis over which model.  The LCD-2F was the first and only LCD-series can I've heard, and I was positively in love with them.  I hear the LCD-X prides itself on neutrality and it's a viable studio / production / mastering tool (along with a pair of monitors, of course), and that really appeals to me as pro audio is my passion.  I know of people who use the HD800 regularly as a tool for mixing and mastering, and I really want to get some opinions on if you guys think the LCD-X qualify in the same way.

At the same time, the LCD-3 are supposedly "that much better", but sacrifice some of the neutrality apparently.  Would the LCD-3 qualify as neutral enough to master with?  I'm torn.  Help!

personally i feel like all audeze headphones are subtly colored. hence thats why ppl say they enjoy the audeze house sound and why ppl pay premium for audeze headphones.

yes, u can use the lcdx to master with, but I own them and i do not consider them to really be perfectly neutral. i feel like they are darker than neutral slash audeze's interpretation of neutral slash the closest audeze has gotten to neutral, but still with audeze house sound sig.

for mixing rly u can just use any real dedicated professional studio headphones like the sub-$100 Sony MDR7506 or Sony MDRV6 or Shure SRH440 which very close to true neutral sound sig. the audeze headphones are really more for hoovyist audiphiles for listening plesure than serious audio engineers & mixers.

basically the lcdx is overkill and not even really the best tool for the job imo. and i listening love my lcdxs, i just wont use them to mix with.

 

[416288]

  The LCD-X is absolutely good enough to master with. Beyond good enough.

 
That's fantastic to hear.  I mean, I know I'm in the LCD-X thread, but how does it compare to the LCD-3 in terms of sheer pleasure to listen to?  It'd be great if the LCD-X could be my "one and only", y'know?
 

personally i feel like all audeze headphones are subtly colored. hence thats why ppl say they enjoy the audeze house sound and why ppl pay premium for audeze headphones.

yes, u can use the lcdx to master with, but I own them and i do not consider them to really be perfectly neutral. i feel like they are darker than neutral slash audeze's interpretation of neutral slash the closest audeze has gotten to neutral, but still with audeze house sound sig.

for mixing rly u can just use any real dedicated professional studio headphones like the sub-$100 Sony MDR7506 or Sony MDRV6 or Shure SRH440 which very close to true neutral sound sig. the audeze headphones are really more for hoovyist audiphiles for listening plesure than serious audio engineers & mixers.

basically the lcdx is overkill and not even really the best tool for the job imo. and i listening love my lcdxs, i just wont use them to mix with.

 
Oh, man, totally. I've used (relatively) neutral headphones to track and monitor with.  When I say "mix", I don't mean mixing on decks, I mean mixing tracks in a production environment where hearing things as they really are -- including stereo image -- is critical.  Nothing can really replace a set of decent studio monitors, but for the audio microscope-level work that you often encounter when you're mastering, headphones really have an upper hand.  I don't trust my Grados, my low-end Sennheisers, or my PortaPros to mix on, but I do often check my low end on a pair of closed cans.
 
That said, the HD800 is in a lot of reputable studios and mastering houses.  They're not even what I'd call dead-on neutral what with the spike in the treble, but they qualify.  I hope you get what I'm saying, I definitely don't want to sound like I'm being confrontational.
 
I guess it helps to add -- my next headphones are going to be an LCD- series headphone, and I'd like to use them both as a tool and as a way to experience music at the top of the hi-fi mountain.

 

[money4me247]

  That's fantastic to hear.  I mean, I know I'm in the LCD-X thread, but how does it compare to the LCD-3 in terms of sheer pleasure to listen to?  It'd be great if the LCD-X could be my "one and only", y'know?
 
Oh, man, totally. I've used (relatively) neutral headphones to track and monitor with.  When I say "mix", I don't mean mixing on decks, I mean mixing tracks in a production environment where hearing things as they really are -- including stereo image -- is critical.  Nothing can really replace a set of decent studio monitors, but for the audio microscope-level work that you often encounter when you're mastering, headphones really have an upper hand.  I don't trust my Grados, my low-end Sennheisers, or my PortaPros to mix on, but I do often check my low end on a pair of closed cans.
 
That said, the HD800 is in a lot of reputable studios and mastering houses.  They're not even what I'd call dead-on neutral what with the spike in the treble, but they qualify.  I hope you get what I'm saying, I definitely don't want to sound like I'm being confrontational.
 
I guess it helps to add -- my next headphones are going to be an LCD- series headphone, and I'd like to use them both as a tool and as a way to experience music at the top of the hi-fi mountain.

lcd-x and lcd-3 are extremely similar, so really more personal preference which one you like better. I don't really think one is more neutral than the other or one is more technically capable, really just a different presentation & slightly difference sound sigs between them. I've listened to both and preferred the lcd-x as I thought it had better bass quality.
 
The reason that hd800 or other "slighty-brighter-than-neutral" headphones are more ideal for mixing and mastering is because they pick up on the micro-detail better and do not have an extra richness or darkness that colors your recording (which audeze headphones will have). it is always better to make a mix using too bright a headphones as then listeners using bright headphones or dark headphones will not experience excess sharpness. mixing/mastering using an audeze, you will get that extra richness & darkness to your sound, but when others listen to your mix with non-audeze headphones, they will not experience that.
 
The audeze headphones are indeed fun to listen to, but for a combo of mixing & listening pleasure, I personally think there are better flagship options out there.
 
feel free to choose whatever option you want! just offering some (hopefully helpful) feedback

 

[416288]

  lcd-x and lcd-3 are extremely similar, so really more personal preference which one you like better. I don't really think one is more neutral than the other or one is more technically capable, really just a different presentation & slightly difference sound sigs between them. I've listened to both and preferred the lcd-x as I thought it had better bass quality.
 
The reason that hd800 or other "slighty-brighter-than-neutral" headphones are more ideal for mixing and mastering is because they pick up on the micro-detail better and do not have an extra richness or darkness that colors your recording (which audeze headphones will have). it is always better to make a mix using too bright a headphones as then listeners using bright headphones or dark headphones will not experience excess sharpness. mixing/mastering using an audeze, you will get that extra richness & darkness to your sound, but when others listen to your mix with non-audeze headphones, they will not experience that.
 
The audeze headphones are indeed fun to listen to, but for a combo of mixing & listening pleasure, I personally think there are better flagship options out there.
 
feel free to choose whatever option you want! just offering some (hopefully helpful) feedback

 
Thanks for the input -- your feedback honestly is valuable, and I do appreciate it a ton.  I guess I'll borrow the LCD-3 and LCD-X from The Cable Company or something and determine the best sounding one for me.  I'm willing to sacrifice a little of the accuracy for having just one pair of headphones that I can not only get lost in, but do a little work with too.

 

[Arnotts]

personally i feel like all audeze headphones are subtly colored. hence thats why ppl say they enjoy the audeze house sound and why ppl pay premium for audeze headphones.

yes, u can use the lcdx to master with, but I own them and i do not consider them to really be perfectly neutral. i feel like they are darker than neutral slash audeze's interpretation of neutral slash the closest audeze has gotten to neutral, but still with audeze house sound sig.

for mixing rly u can just use any real dedicated professional studio headphones like the sub-$100 Sony MDR7506 or Sony MDRV6 or Shure SRH440 which very close to true neutral sound sig. the audeze headphones are really more for hoovyist audiphiles for listening plesure than serious audio engineers & mixers.

basically the lcdx is overkill and not even really the best tool for the job imo. and i listening love my lcdxs, i just wont use them to mix with.

I don't agree at all.
 
Look at the artists/producers/engineers that DO use the LCD-X's as mixing/mastering tools:
https://twitter.com/Audeze/lists/ambassadors/members
https://www.pinterest.com/audeze/audeze-ambassadors/
https://www.youtube.com/user/audezeofficial1/playlists?sort=dd&shelf_id=5&view=50
 
They're good enough to REPLACE studio monitors if need be.
 
http://www.dogsonacid.com/threads/which-headphones-do-you-use-for-mixing.764956/#post-11175411
 
Three of my all time favourite artists use Audeze headphones in their production process: Rob Swire (from Pendulum/Knife Party), Jon Gooch (Feed Me/Spor) and Noisia.
 
I personally don't interpret the LCD-X sound as dark. I interpret the HD800 kind of sound as slightly bright, with a lack of true bass presence (although the bass is nice quality). LCD-X's make everything sound NATURAL and "right" imo.

 

[TMRaven]

I feel sad for any engineer using the LCD-X as their mastering tool.  It's a great sounding headphone with an addicting quasi-u shaped signature, but at the end of the day it's still darker than your average set of neutral monitors.  Their songs would end up with too much upper mid-lower treble emphasis.

 

[416288]

 
I don't agree at all.
 
Look at the artists/producers/engineers that DO use the LCD-X's as mixing/mastering tools:
https://twitter.com/Audeze/lists/ambassadors/members
https://www.pinterest.com/audeze/audeze-ambassadors/
https://www.youtube.com/user/audezeofficial1/playlists?sort=dd&shelf_id=5&view=50
 
They're good enough to REPLACE studio monitors if need be.
 
http://www.dogsonacid.com/threads/which-headphones-do-you-use-for-mixing.764956/#post-11175411
 
Three of my all time favourite artists use Audeze headphones in their production process: Rob Swire (from Pendulum/Knife Party), Jon Gooch (Feed Me/Spor) and Noisia.
 
I personally don't interpret the LCD-X sound as dark. I interpret the HD800 kind of sound as slightly bright, with a lack of true bass presence (although the bass is nice quality). LCD-X's make everything sound NATURAL and "right" imo.

 
 

  I feel sad for any engineer using the LCD-X as their mastering tool.  It's a great sounding headphone with an addicting quasi-u shaped signature, but at the end of the day it's still darker than your average set of neutral monitors.  Their songs would end up with too much upper mid-lower treble emphasis.

 
 
So that leaves me with the question... Which Audeze headphone is most suited to actual audio engineering work?  LCD-3?  LCD-X?

 

[Arnotts]

   
 
 
 
So that leaves me with the question... Which Audeze headphone is most suited to actual audio engineering work?  LCD-3?  LCD-X?

If you look at what people that actually MAKE music say, it seems to be different than what some audiophiles on head-fi tend to say.
 
Who is right and who is wrong? That's for you to decide. I was in the same situation as you before, but I take the opinions of my favourite musicians and engineers as having more weight in this matter than audiophile forum-goers.
 
Imo you're asking the wrong people. You want good production headphones? Ask the people who actually produce music for their opinions.
 
LCD-X's are meant to be used in the studio. LCD-3's CAN be used in the studio, but they're not specifically meant for it.
 
edit: That's also why I linked the dogsonacid post - it's a music production forum. People on gearslutz say the same thing. Actual producers say the same thing. Actual sound engineers say the same thing.
 
That's as much as I want to say about it though. I've found the ideal equipment for me, I don't need to keep researching which is the best anymore. 

 

[money4me247]

lol just because audeze advertises the lcd-x as "reference level" and the lcd-3 as "high resolution" does NOT make one more suitable for studio usage or specifically designed for studio usage. how many headphones out there comes with the advertising tag of "hi-rez" or "reference level" or "audiophile quality?" those are just marketing words.
 
how many DJ or producers do you see wearing beats or v-moda m100s or any other random pair of headphones on their heads that claim they use it for mixing? advertising & marketing headphones is common, but does not mean those headphones are really suitable for studio usage. hell, even dr. dre uses a pair of akg studio headphones for producing. there are many headphones dedicated for studio usage & audezes are not really one of them. sure, you may have a few artists using random headphones for their mixes, but doubtful people in the audio industry consider audezes for mixing/mastering purposes.
 
yes, you can use audezes and your results will be fine. there are simply better & cheaper options out there. in fact, since you have the dough, i would recommend just getting the lcd-x for personal enjoyment & a sub-$100 studio headphone for mixing, so your tracks won't be colored by the audeze sound sig.

 

[Articnoise]

I think that LCD X may be the best of the Audeze LCD line for studio duty, but it is a heavy phone which can be more problematic to use in a studio then leaning forward over the mixing board then at home in a nice armchair. For pure enjoyable listening I mostly prefer the LCD 3F over the X.

Maybe it is better to have one lighter phone (AKG/Fidelio X2, Audeze el-8 etc.) for the time-consuming and more critical analyzing and mixing stuff and another can (LCD etc.) for controlling the end results coherence and at relaxed home listening.    

Btw I don’t think that it is preferable to use headphones or speakers that emphasis the treble to much ether. There are many records that sounds dull because of lack of upper mids and treble to, not only too much of it.

 

[fradoca]

This is a part of the interview i did with Alex Rosson ceo of Audeze for my review of the LCD-X.As many of you may not know Alex has been working for many years as an audio mastering engineer.He has mastered hundreds of movie soundtracks at Technicolor LA.
 
 
HDP: Do you personally use the LCD-X for audio mastering or evaluation listening sessions?
 
 
AR: Absolutely, the LCD-X is the last point of reference when I master an album. I use a few different evolutions of the LCD, including some prototypes that I just gravitate towards. While I appreciate the accuracy of our LCD-X’s and the overall sound signature. During a long mastering session I tend to use some of our earlier transducers like the LCD-2 rev1 and then do the last quality control check with the LCD-X. I often tell people to hold on to their LCD-2 rev1 because they have a certain characteristic unlike any other headphone. Albeit, this is my personal and subjective opinion. To get back to your question and explain what I use for each scenario: the LCD-X is the last step in my mastering workflow, this is what I do quality control with. The LCD-3 is my choice for my Sunday listening sessions or reviewing an album. The LCD-2 rev1 is my choice for long mixing and mastering sessions.
 
 
HDP: Which is your favourite amp to use with the LCD-X?
 
 
AR: This is always a difficult question. I am lucky enough to evaluate a fair amount of equipment and I don’t usually have a favorite because it’s always evolving. So I answer this with the preface. At this time my mastering signal chain is comprised of the DAC202 by Weiss, and that is going to be a tough one to knock out of position for me, if you haven’t heard of it I highly recommend finding somewhere to demo it. Coming analog out of that we pass through the Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold. I use all Nordost power and cables and for the headphones I use a variety of Double Helix Cables. For my portable rig Chord Hugo is all I will say.
 
 
 
i use too the LCD-X for mastering sessions or critical listening sessions especially when i have to review or compare headphones amplifiers or DACs.

 

[money4me247]

lol, sure. ask the CEO of the company who is in the business of selling their own headphones whether they think you should buy their headphones for different applications.
 
"The Fostex TH900 is a very linear headphone from the top to the bottom of the frequency spectrum. It does not have recessed midrange or an overpowering bottom end. It is a true reference headphone and a perfect fit for mastering engineers that need a true representation of the music. It is not overly analytical but truly transparent." -Drew Baird, P.E., President/CEO of Moon Audio - http://www.moon-audio.com/fostex-th900-flagship-dynamic-headphones.html
 
Either way all previous opinions stated are totally wrong! It says right on the Beats website that their Beats Pro is "the Headphones Used To Mix In Every Major Studio." Even Dr. Dre himself, CEO of Beats and a well-known hip-hop producer, says that those headphones allow you to "hear what the artists hear, and listen to the music the way they should: the way I do." Beats are "designed by professionals, for professionals." Jimmy Iovine is the chairman of Interscope records & a multitude of musicians use Beats spanning from Mark Ronson, Lil Wayne, Eminem, Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga, MIA, Pharrell, and Zedd. ...though maybe minus Justin Bieber since I don't know if you can really call him a musician
 
ymmv of course, but I am confident that all those words aren't just marketing & advertising and whenever a company tells me that their headphones are is a great headphone for mixin & masterin, I just pull out my wallet. Off to go mix up some dope tracks!!!