[Cold Train]

Ten percent improvement. It should be in the range of 40% plus atleast. Strange.

Most flagship have less than 15% of improvements over mid rangers, you must be dreaming at 40%

 

[rskbug]

The idea is not whether it is 40 or 41 percent improvement. If one is paying 4-5x then an underlying performance should increase by atleast 1/3rd or more (subjectively). It's good enough IMO. The implied consensus seems to be that way in the case of the isines/i4's.

15% improvement over mid ranger? I doubt it.

 

[Cold Train]

The idea is not whether it is 40 or 41 percent improvement. If one is paying 4-5x then an underlying performance should increase by atleast 1/3rd or more (subjectively). It's good enough IMO. The implied consensus seems to be that way in the case of the isines/i4's.

15% improvement over mid ranger? I doubt it.

First thing : how can we measure the percentage of improvements?

Second thing : example Audio Technica ATH IM02, IM03 and IM04 , can you please tell me what is the percentage of improvements between IM02 ($200) and IM04 ($499)?

You can pay a difference of 500% but the improvements will be 5-15% max

 

[rkw]

Audio Technica ATH IM02, IM03 and IM04 , can you please tell me what is the percentage of improvements between IM02 ($200) and IM04 ($499)?

27.6%

And I get really upset when I buy a bottle of wine that costs twice as much but it's only 19% better.

 

[Cold Train]

27.6%

And I get really upset when I buy a bottle of wine that costs twice as much but it's only 19% better.

The right answer is 0%

IM02, 03 and 04 are different in tonality, but same level of performance. (different level of pricing)

Most will say that IM04 is a downgrade over IM03, check the reviews.

Be sure that the price isn't an indicator of quality !!!

 

[Sarnia]

I can't speak for anyone else as we all use different gear, but for me the LCD-i4 has been very reliant on what's driving it. With a great source the LCD-i4 trounces the iSINE 20 to my ears. Out of more modest equipment, like Sony's entry level MW-A35 DAP, the differences aren't as immediately noticeable. To my ears, when I put a good source and amp in front of the LCD-i4 they're a completely different beast.

Also, this is just a personal thing, but applying percentage numbers to a comparison isn't a great indicator for readers. It may be a 10% difference on this DAP at this volume, but a 30% difference on the same DAP at a different volume, or a 33% difference on a different DAP at the same volume, or a 12.3612% difference on a different DAP at a different volume... it'll always be different. It's not 10% better, it just was at that moment to the listener who made the observation. On top of that, my subjective 10% may be vastly different than someone else's 10%. We're not talking hard objective numbers when comparing the LCD-i4 and the iSINEs, we're comparing our personal subjective opinions of the two.

So out of a DAP like the Sony NW-WM1A the LCD-i4 might sound similar to the iSine 20, but would sound significantly better out of an amp like the TA-ZH1ES?

I'm very interested in upgrading to LCD-i4 from the iSine 20, but was put off a bit by comments that out of a DAP the iSine 20 would be better. I'm wondering now if that was purely based on value, i.e. not worth spending the extra for the same sound.

My use case would be mainly out of the TA-ZH1ES, and sometimes out of the NW-WM1A directly, or through the MUC-M2BT1 Bluetooth receiver using an Affinity Cables 2-pin to MMCX adapter that he custom made for me.

In your view would the i4s perform as well as the 20s out of the WM1a and Bluetooth receiver? I'd also really appreciate your thought on how they are with the TA-ZH1ES.

 

[AxelCloris]

So out of a DAP like the Sony NW-WM1A the LCD-i4 might sound similar to the iSine 20, but would sound significantly better out of an amp like the TA-ZH1ES?

I can't speak to the NW-WM1A as I've not spent any time with that DAP outside of a brief listen at a CanJam. The NW-A35 is Sony's entry-level DAP and it doesn't drive the LCD-i4 properly IMO.

In your view would the i4s perform as well as the 20s out of the WM1a and Bluetooth receiver? I'd also really appreciate your thought on how they are with the TA-ZH1ES.

Again, can't comment on pairings I haven't heard. The TA-ZH1ES on the other hand is an incredible pairing. Great presence, incredible detail, staggering imaging. That's of course with a pre-production version, so things could be different with the final retail versions.

My suggestion is this: if you have a nice DAP, try the LCD-i4 with it. It may suit your tastes, it may not, but to assume that the LCD-i4 doesn't sound great out of all DAPs and skip it is an opportunity lost. See if a local dealer has one to demo and take your NW-WM1A with you for an audition. I'd be curious to hear how they pair because the NW-WM1A is a DAP that has my interest.

 

[Sarnia]

I can't speak to the NW-WM1A as I've not spent any time with that DAP outside of a brief listen at a CanJam. The NW-A35 is Sony's entry-level DAP and it doesn't drive the LCD-i4 properly IMO.


Again, can't comment on pairings I haven't heard. The TA-ZH1ES on the other hand is an incredible pairing. Great presence, incredible detail, staggering imaging. That's of course with a pre-production version, so things could be different with the final retail versions.

My suggestion is this: if you have a nice DAP, try the LCD-i4 with it. It may suit your tastes, it may not, but to assume that the LCD-i4 doesn't sound great out of all DAPs and skip it is an opportunity lost. See if a local dealer has one to demo and take your NW-WM1A with you for an audition. I'd be curious to hear how they pair because the NW-WM1A is a DAP that has my interest.

Thanks for your views. I can't find any output figures for the NW-A35 to compare it to the NW-WM1A. If I get to try them I'll let you know how they are with the 1A.

Unfortunately I live on a tiny island with no access to try anything decent, so I have to buy based on others impressions, which doesn't always work out.

 

[stenog]

Thanks for your views. I can't find any output figures for the NW-A35 to compare it to the NW-WM1A. If I get to try them I'll let you know how they are with the 1A.

Unfortunately I live on a tiny island with no access to try anything decent, so I have to buy based on others impressions, which doesn't always work out.

It was mentioned earlier that the Mojo drive these very well. If the Mojo can drive them, then I can't see why the NW-WM1A or the 1Z can't drive them. I used to have the Mojo but now uses the Ibasso DX200 and the FiiO X5iii. Both have about the same power as the Mojo. I don't know how much power the Sony daps have, I have not tried them, but I doubt they have a lot less. Assume non EU cap.

I always use the mojo as comparison, everybody and their dog have tried a mojo . And if the mojo can drive them so can the Ibasso DX200.

 

[kubig123]

So out of a DAP like the Sony NW-WM1A the LCD-i4 might sound similar to the iSine 20, but would sound significantly better out of an amp like the TA-ZH1ES?

I'm very interested in upgrading to LCD-i4 from the iSine 20, but was put off a bit by comments that out of a DAP the iSine 20 would be better. I'm wondering now if that was purely based on value, i.e. not worth spending the extra for the same sound.

My use case would be mainly out of the TA-ZH1ES, and sometimes out of the NW-WM1A directly, or through the MUC-M2BT1 Bluetooth receiver using an Affinity Cables 2-pin to MMCX adapter that he custom made for me.

In your view would the i4s perform as well as the 20s out of the WM1a and Bluetooth receiver? I'd also really appreciate your thought on how they are with the TA-ZH1ES.

You'll see, the TA-ZH1ES will drive them magnifically, the WM1A will drive them well, but use a balance cable.
Forget about the Bluetooth, it won't have enough juice to drive them well, you can use it but you won't get the full potential out of these earphones.

I have the WM1Z and it pair well with the LCDi4, but only when I used the Cavalli LC I really appreciate them.

 

[x RELIC x]

It was mentioned earlier that the Mojo drive these very well. If the Mojo can drive them, then I can't see why the NW-WM1A or the 1Z can't drive them. I used to have the Mojo but now uses the Ibasso DX200 and the FiiO X5iii. Both have about the same power as the Mojo. I don't know how much power the Sony daps have, I have not tried them, but I doubt they have a lot less. Assume non EU cap.

I always use the mojo as comparison, everybody and their dog have tried a mojo . And if the mojo can drive them so can the Ibasso DX200.

Some numbers need to be cleared up here...

Yes, the Sony DAPs have a lot less output power (60mW@16 Ohms SE, 250mW@16 Ohms balanced) than the Mojo (600mW@32 Ohms, 720mW@8 Ohms, 500mA Current output - there is no spec listed for 16Ohms). The Mojo has the exact same power output as the Hugo1 and HugoTT (with the TT having a higher current bias). The Mojo is quite a powerful device for its size.

The X5iii is less powerful than the Mojo with 480mW@16 Ohms and 250mW@32 Ohms, with 250mA current output.

The DX200 is slightly more powerful than the Mojo using balanced and less powerful than the Mojo SE (am1 amp module).

Again, quality of the source and synergy is a much larger differentiator than max power specs, especially since the LCDi4 will only need around 1mW to reach 105dB SPL, which will damage your hearing long term.

 

[stenog]

Some numbers need to be cleared up here...

Yes, the Sony DAPs have a lot less output power (60mW@16 Ohms SE, 250mW@16 Ohms balanced) than the Mojo (600mW@32 Ohms, 720mW@8 Ohms, 500mA Current output - there is no spec listed for 16Ohms). The Mojo has the exact same power output as the Hugo1 and HugoTT (with the TT having a higher current bias). The Mojo is quite a powerful device for its size.

The X5iii is less powerful than the Mojo with 480mW@16 Ohms and 250mW@32 Ohms, with 250mA current output.

The DX200 is slightly more powerful than the Mojo using balanced and less powerful than the Mojo SE (am1 amp module).

Again, quality of the source and synergy is a much larger differentiator than max power specs, especially since the LCDi4 will only need around 1mW to reach 105dB SPL, which will damage your hearing long term.

Thanks for clarifying that . Did not know that the Sony daps have that kind of power compared to the Ibasso.

And agree preferences and synergy are far more important than power alone.

 

[Richter Di]

Thanks for your views. I can't find any output figures for the NW-A35 to compare it to the NW-WM1A. If I get to try them I'll let you know how they are with the 1A.

I own a Sony NWZ-A15 and the Sony NW-ZX2. Sound quality between the two are so different. I haven't heard the A35 but he is more in the price area of the A15 and not the ZX2. My iSine 20 work great together with the NW-ZX2 and when I test hear the LCD i4 the ZX2 did Driver properly packed how to match better sound quality compared to the ifi nano.

As x Relic x already said:

Again, quality of the source and synergy is a much larger differentiator than max power specs,

So try the Sony NW-ZX2 it is a great DAP.

 

[Lucas_ob]

so it would be 24 grams in total?

 

[davehutch]

As I'm buying the iSine 20s so that I'm not tied to my desktop setup and can listen from my iPhone, I have a question.
In theory, could you use the Cipher cable to hook up the LCDi4s to an iPhone and then simply reverse out the EQ that is applied by default by the Cipher cable?
If it's a decent DAC/Amp and you can adjust its EQ to virtually 'neutralise' it, why not run a pair of LCDi4s from it?
OK, I know you'd lose the benefit of the silver plated cable but in theory, could it be done? Anyone want to try and report back?