[willsen]

Can you share your eq setting with RME ? Thx.

Hi Mat! I am using the LCD-5 eq profile from Oratory1990. That profile gives a very nice treble energy to the lcd-5 (i only realised how dark the 5 is after switching off this EQ).. The bass shelf from oratory also provides a very satisfying impact to drum kicks, which I initially missed after upgrading from lcd-x.

 

[mat.1]

Hi Mat! I am using the LCD-5 eq profile from Oratory1990. That profile gives a very nice treble energy to the lcd-5 (i only realised how dark the 5 is after switching off this EQ).. The bass shelf from oratory also provides a very satisfying impact to drum kicks, which I initially missed after upgrading from lcd-x.

THX,

 

[squashi]

Part 1 of my shootout:

I have owned all of these headphones concurrently:
Susvara: stock cable
Atrium: ZMF OFC cable
Utopia: Black dragon cable
Bravura: Full electrostatic system with Sonoma m1 energizer/DAC, connected to DAP with coax
HEKSE: stock cable with EQ (Poweramp EQ) If you are younger, far too bright without EQ; I can't listen to it without EQ. My EQ adds a tiny bit of bass and tames the highs.
LCD-5:
Before I get to comparisons a work about LCD-5 and EQ. I want to preface I don't like to EQ, on a direct A/B I can hear the loss in technicality when using Poweramp EQ. (I can't use roon since it doesn't support apple music; apple music is the only lossless steaming source that has all the songs I listen to) with that said:
- An LCD-5 has a slight lack of bass, and a midrange that could be improved tonally to my ears. In the end, this is preference, but I can see this specific preference being shared by many of us, especially if you prefer a more "harman" style tuning, (There is no "right" tuning!)
- I personally have found my viking ansuz cable (which I got with my atriums) improves tone just as well, enhances bass, and slightly improves imaging and stage.
- For this comparison I use a ZMF OFC cable with EQ (Poweramp EQ), when the result is different I also compare the kilobuck cable viking weave ansuz (no EQ). I prefer no EQ + kilobuck cable! Without cable, I prefer my EQ, which adds a bit of bass, and adds to the 2 dips in upper mids/highs.
- I am not comparing a stock LCD-5 if you don't want to customize your chain or try EQ, don't get LCD-5

"Glossary"
My ~$3k chain: apple music on dx320 (using internal ROHM DAC to lineout on modded amp12exn-s module) -> iFi 4.4 to xlr cable -> iFi Pro iCan Signature (solid state). Approximating DAC price to other desktop DACs I know it compares to.
My DAP: apple music on dx320 with modded amp12exn-s (with opamp upgrades). Quite powerful class A amplifier, Similar to a ~$1.5 desktop chain.
Susvara ~$24k chain: extended listened to: Tidal -> unknown streamer -> Chord Dave -> AVM A 6.2 ($10k speaker amp) (unknown connecting cables, but easily kilobuck+)
I am not doing a ranking here, since I think words are more nuanced. for reference: amazing > great > good > ok > bad. Keep in mind these terms are relative to the headphones I am comparing. Also good/great means between good and great. If I don't specify chain, then that rating applies to all chains from DAP to my $3k chain.
money no object winner highlight
$3k chain winner highlight
DAP winner highlight

resolution/separation (excluding bass):
Susvara - amazing+ with a ~$24k chain (dave+speaker amp), great with ~$3k chain, good/great on my DAP (incredibly, but rest of susvara suffers)
Bravura - amazing
LCD-5 (probably a contender for top place will update after trying Chord Dave) - amazing+? with ~$?? chain, great/amazing with my ~$3k chain, good straight from DAP
Utopia - good/great with my ~$3k chain, good on my DAP
Atrium - always ok/good
HEKSE - always good/great

instrument naturalness, most are ranges since it depends on the instrument:
Susvara - great/amazing on $24k chain (mid range shines), good/amazing on my $3k chain (lack bass impact), and ok on DAP due to sounding weird and lacking bass
Bravura - good/great: bass forward instruments won't have impact, realistic but never fully immersive
LCD-5 - good/amazing usually, but great/amazing with my viking weave ansuz cable. Especially drums and other bassy instruments
Utopia - ok/amazing metallic: amazing for some instruments, just ok for most instruments
Atrium - good/amazing, due to long decay it varies a lot for each instrument
HEKSE - good/great has impact and realistic but never fully immersive

vocal texture + tone:
Susvara - great/amazing
Bravura - good realistic but never fully immersive
LCD-5 - good, but great with viking weave ansuz cable. Tone suffers without EQ or proper chain
Utopia - ok/good sometimes metallic
Atrium - great/amazing + lush vocals (may be positive or negative for each song/preference)
HEKSE - good realistic but never fully immersive

vocal placement:
Susvara - usually in the background with instruments, but sometimes brought closer
Bravura - brought up front and close
LCD-5 - in the background with instruments
Utopia - in the background with instruments (but feels upfront due to small stage)
Atrium - brought up front and close
HEKSE - in the background with instruments

stage size:
Susvara - great/amazing
Bravura - good/amazing variable on track (heavy bassy tracks are closer)
LCD-5 - good, but good/great with viking weave ansuz
Utopia - ok/good
Atrium - good/great
HEKSE - amazing

energy level:
Susvara - chill/effortless: like mac and cheese, smooth and rich, can't stop eating
Bravura - in the middle: like pizza, strong but lowkey
LCD-5 - very energetic: like wagyu, amazing but how long can you endure the fattiness
Utopia - energetic: like foie gras, rich, overly fatty
Atrium - mostly chill: like grits, mostly smooth but with punch at times
HEKSE - in the middle: like bacon, nothing crazy but noticeable

imaging:
Susvara - on $24k chain: great/amazing. on $3k chain: great. DAP: ok
Bravura - good/great
LCD-5 - on $3k chain: great/amazing, but incredibly amazing with viking weave ansuz cable. On DAP: good/great
Utopia - on $3k chain: great. DAP: good
Atrium - always ok
HEKSE - always good/great

bass texture/resolution:
Susvara - on $24k chain: great/amazing. on $3k chain: good. on DAP: bad
Bravura - great/amazing
LCD-5 - on $3k chain: amazing On DAP: great
Utopia - on $3k chain: great. DAP: good/great
Atrium - always ok/great: decay is great, resolution is not
HEKSE - always great

bass impact:
Susvara - on $24k chain: great. on $3k chain: ok/good. on DAP: bad
Bravura - ok (great for an estat!) but, depending on volume, very high bass impacts seem to "shock" the headset, which very slightly "muddies" those milliseconds
LCD-5 - on $3k chain: amazing. on DAP: great. Can suffer without EQ or right chain
Utopia - on $3k chain: great/amazing. DAP: great
Atrium - always great
HEKSE - always great

MSRP:
Susvara - on $24k chain: $30k. on $3k chain: $9k. on DAP equivalent desktop: $7.5k
Bravura - full system $6k
LCD-5 - on $3k chain with viking weave ansuz: $8.5k. on $3k chain: $7.5k. On DAP equivalent desktop: $6k
Utopia - on $3k chain: $7k. On DAP equivalent desktop: $5.5k
Atrium - on $3k chain: $5.5k. On DAP equivalent desktop: $4k
HEKSE - on $3k chain: $5k. On DAP equivalent desktop: $3.5k

-I think EQ'd HEKSE is very underrated a bang for buck option (remember not comparing stock HEKSE). I also think Bravura is an amazing all-rounder which is unbeatable for the price!
-I have tried my best to be music genre agnostic in this comparison!

In my part 2 of this review, I will compare all of these headphones in the following genres of music:
vocal heavy pop
"trashy" pop
hiphop
metal
progressive rock
opera
orchestra
classical
choral and a capella
any other genres?

 

[Tanalasta]

That’s an interesting and comprehensive posting. Without getting into cable apologetics I’ve found that the LcD5 does improve (as does many headphone at the top tier level) with the coloration of a cable upgrade.

Which does give the LCD5 an advantage here. Notwithstanding it is a technically very capable headphone.

How are the rest of the headphones on the 24k chain? I wonder if Bluetooth or streaming Apple Music to the 24k chain rather than the dap workaround would sound better? Even if you lose the lossless component. I honestly don’t know

 

[squashi]

That’s an interesting and comprehensive posting. Without getting into cable apologetics I’ve found that the LcD5 does improve (as does many headphone at the top tier level) with the coloration of a cable upgrade.

Which does give the LCD5 an advantage here. Notwithstanding it is a technically very capable headphone.

How are the rest of the headphones on the 24k chain? I wonder if Bluetooth or streaming Apple Music to the 24k chain rather than the dap workaround would sound better? Even if you lose the lossless component. I honestly don’t know

So sadly haven't yet tried the other headphones on that 24k chain, and frankly I don't see the point, only Susvara needed that Speaker amp.

That being said, I am sure they would all improve on the chord dave, so I plan on trying the LCD-5 with all levels of chord dacs from qutest to dave. I'll have an LCD-5 specific review going over that, and edit this review to include some of those changes

I'm not too sure what you mean by the DAP workaround tho?

I also don't think it's worth trying HEKSE, Utopia or Atrium on the nicer hardware, it seems to have already hit a bit of a wall, personally I don't think it's worth the time investment to compare that

 

[Tanalasta]

I also don't think it's worth trying HEKSE, Utopia or Atrium on the nicer hardware, it seems to have already hit a bit of a wall, personally I don't think it's worth the time investment to compare that

I suspect chord dave into the ifi pro can signature would still sound better than the dx320. Whilst it’s a capable device, it’s not in the same league.

You can also order adapters eg. Mini-XLR to LEMO so you can use your Viking cable with the utopia. Personally I think the Utopia has a lot of promise if you give it a chance.

I own Utopia 2022/OG and LCD5.

 

[squashi]

I suspect chord dave into the ifi pro can signature would still sound better than the dx320. Whilst it’s a capable device, it’s not in the same league.

You can also order adapters eg. Mini-XLR to LEMO so you can use your Viking cable with the utopia. Personally I think the Utopia has a lot of promise if you give it a chance.

I own Utopia 2022/OG and LCD5.

Absolutely! I planned on doing exactly that! Also was going to try chord dave directly and compare as well! Very lucky to have a generous hifi speaker shop nearby that swears by all the chord products.

Possibly! I'll try to give the utopias (OG) a shot then, but might not end up doing a full comparison if I run out of time. It's time consuming enough to accurately compare 1 headphone haha

 

[EMINENT]

Part 1 of my shootout:

I have owned all of these headphones concurrently:
Susvara: stock cable
Atrium: ZMF OFC cable
Utopia: Black dragon cable
Bravura: Full electrostatic system with Sonoma m1 energizer/DAC, connected to DAP with coax
HEKSE: stock cable with EQ (Poweramp EQ) If you are younger, far too bright without EQ; I can't listen to it without EQ. My EQ adds a tiny bit of bass and tames the highs.
LCD-5:
Before I get to comparisons a work about LCD-5 and EQ. I want to preface I don't like to EQ, on a direct A/B I can hear the loss in technicality when using Poweramp EQ. (I can't use roon since it doesn't support apple music; apple music is the only lossless steaming source that has all the songs I listen to) with that said:
- An LCD-5 has a slight lack of bass, and a midrange that could be improved tonally to my ears. In the end, this is preference, but I can see this specific preference being shared by many of us, especially if you prefer a more "harman" style tuning, (There is no "right" tuning!)
- I personally have found my viking ansuz cable (which I got with my atriums) improves tone just as well, enhances bass, and slightly improves imaging and stage.
- For this comparison I use a ZMF OFC cable with EQ (Poweramp EQ), when the result is different I also compare the kilobuck cable viking weave ansuz (no EQ). I prefer no EQ + kilobuck cable! Without cable, I prefer my EQ, which adds a bit of bass, and adds to the 2 dips in upper mids/highs.
- I am not comparing a stock LCD-5 if you don't want to customize your chain or try EQ, don't get LCD-5

"Glossary"
My ~$3k chain: apple music on dx320 (using internal ROHM DAC to lineout on modded amp12exn-s module) -> iFi 4.4 to xlr cable -> iFi Pro iCan Signature (solid state). Approximating DAC price to other desktop DACs I know it compares to.
My DAP: apple music on dx320 with modded amp12exn-s (with opamp upgrades). Quite powerful class A amplifier, Similar to a ~$1.5 desktop chain.
Susvara ~$24k chain: extended listened to: Tidal -> unknown streamer -> Chord Dave -> AVM A 6.2 ($10k speaker amp) (unknown connecting cables, but easily kilobuck+)
I am not doing a ranking here, since I think words are more nuanced. for reference: amazing > great > good > ok > bad. Keep in mind these terms are relative to the headphones I am comparing. Also good/great means between good and great. If I don't specify chain, then that rating applies to all chains from DAP to my $3k chain.
money no object winner highlight
$3k chain winner highlight
DAP winner highlight

resolution/separation (excluding bass):
Susvara - amazing+ with a ~$24k chain (dave+speaker amp), great with ~$3k chain, good/great on my DAP (incredibly, but rest of susvara suffers)
Bravura - amazing
LCD-5 (probably a contender for top place will update after trying Chord Dave) - amazing+? with ~$?? chain, great/amazing with my ~$3k chain, good straight from DAP
Utopia - good/great with my ~$3k chain, good on my DAP
Atrium - always ok/good
HEKSE - always good/great

instrument naturalness, most are ranges since it depends on the instrument:
Susvara - great/amazing on $24k chain (mid range shines), good/amazing on my $3k chain (lack bass impact), and ok on DAP due to sounding weird and lacking bass
Bravura - good/great: bass forward instruments won't have impact, realistic but never fully immersive
LCD-5 - good/amazing usually, but great/amazing with my viking weave ansuz cable. Especially drums and other bassy instruments
Utopia - ok/amazing metallic: amazing for some instruments, just ok for most instruments
Atrium - good/amazing, due to long decay it varies a lot for each instrument
HEKSE - good/great has impact and realistic but never fully immersive

vocal texture + tone:
Susvara - great/amazing
Bravura - good realistic but never fully immersive
LCD-5 - good, but great with viking weave ansuz cable. Tone suffers without EQ or proper chain
Utopia - ok/good sometimes metallic
Atrium - great/amazing + lush vocals (may be positive or negative for each song/preference)
HEKSE - good realistic but never fully immersive

vocal placement:
Susvara - usually in the background with instruments, but sometimes brought closer
Bravura - brought up front and close
LCD-5 - in the background with instruments
Utopia - in the background with instruments (but feels upfront due to small stage)
Atrium - brought up front and close
HEKSE - in the background with instruments

stage size:
Susvara - great/amazing
Bravura - good/amazing variable on track (heavy bassy tracks are closer)
LCD-5 - good, but good/great with viking weave ansuz
Utopia - ok/good
Atrium - good/great
HEKSE - amazing

energy level:
Susvara - chill/effortless: like mac and cheese, smooth and rich, can't stop eating
Bravura - in the middle: like pizza, strong but lowkey
LCD-5 - very energetic: like wagyu, amazing but how long can you endure the fattiness
Utopia - energetic: like foie gras, rich, overly fatty
Atrium - mostly chill: like grits, mostly smooth but with punch at times
HEKSE - in the middle: like bacon, nothing crazy but noticeable

imaging:
Susvara - on $24k chain: great/amazing. on $3k chain: great. DAP: ok
Bravura - good/great
LCD-5 - on $3k chain: great/amazing, but incredibly amazing with viking weave ansuz cable. On DAP: good/great
Utopia - on $3k chain: great. DAP: good
Atrium - always ok
HEKSE - always good/great

bass texture/resolution:
Susvara - on $24k chain: great/amazing. on $3k chain: good. on DAP: bad
Bravura - great/amazing
LCD-5 - on $3k chain: amazing On DAP: great
Utopia - on $3k chain: great. DAP: good/great
Atrium - always ok/great: decay is great, resolution is not
HEKSE - always great

bass impact:
Susvara - on $24k chain: great. on $3k chain: ok/good. on DAP: bad
Bravura - ok (great for an estat!) but, depending on volume, very high bass impacts seem to "shock" the headset, which very slightly "muddies" those milliseconds
LCD-5 - on $3k chain: amazing. on DAP: great. Can suffer without EQ or right chain
Utopia - on $3k chain: great/amazing. DAP: great
Atrium - always great
HEKSE - always great

MSRP:
Susvara - on $24k chain: $30k. on $3k chain: $9k. on DAP equivalent desktop: $7.5k
Bravura - full system $6k
LCD-5 - on $3k chain with viking weave ansuz: $8.5k. on $3k chain: $7.5k. On DAP equivalent desktop: $6k
Utopia - on $3k chain: $7k. On DAP equivalent desktop: $5.5k
Atrium - on $3k chain: $5.5k. On DAP equivalent desktop: $4k
HEKSE - on $3k chain: $5k. On DAP equivalent desktop: $3.5k

-I think EQ'd HEKSE is very underrated a bang for buck option (remember not comparing stock HEKSE). I also think Bravura is an amazing all-rounder which is unbeatable for the price!
-I have tried my best to be music genre agnostic in this comparison!

In my part 2 of this review, I will compare all of these headphones in the following genres of music:
vocal heavy pop
"trashy" pop
hiphop
metal
progressive rock
opera
orchestra
classical
choral and a capella
any other genres?

Good assessment and luck on your quest. Looks like you're on the way to exploring more facets to LCD-5.

 

[Tanalasta]

Good luck! I moved away from chord due to the lack of single 4 pin XLR or 4.4mm output.

They are technically superb. The TT2 will drive most headphones very well. Dave … perhaps less so and would benefit from an amp even with the lcd 5.

If only they modernised more often.

 

[audio integrity]

Thanks for the great comparisons, Squashi. I have an LCD 5 (EQ’d to the Roon preset) and an HEKSE (no EQ) at home, both driven out of a GSX Mini fed by a Chord Qutest and iFi Zen Stream. I thought that I’d just throw some additional comparison points out there.

• Soundstage: in my opinion, this is the most prominent difference. The larger cups of the HEKSE (my ears swim in these) render a much wider sound field, so you do get the sense that you are in the 10th+ row of a music hall. The drawback is the stage appears more two-dimensional. By contrast, the LCD 5 has an ‘on stage’ presentation, in which the instruments are arranged in a horseshoe around you. Both are great presentations and just a matter of personal preference.
• Imaging: in complete agreement with Squashi’s descriptions here. Instrument separation and locational cues are meaningfully better on the LCD 5 (Robber by Weather Station drove this home for me where there’s a fair bit going on that can either be separated or enveloping depending on the headphones).
• Vocals: to my ears, the HEKSE has sweeter vocals – smoother and less prominent. Joni Mitchell’s Case of You is an example of a track that can create sibilance depending on treble sensitivity; HEKSE is an easier listen and it’d probably be my choice for vocal-only.
• Timbre: when listening to a track like School Days (Stanley Clarke), it appeared that the leading edge of notes, particularly on crunchier instruments (electric guitar) come across more clearly on the LCD 5. I hesitate to call the HEKSE ‘soft’ in an absolute sense, but it is a smoother listen, which does come at the cost of some ‘twang’. You get more of that ‘plucked’ quality on the LCD 5, but HEKSE is not a slouch in this department.
• Bass: I am not a bass-head, so, for me, this category tends to be about texture. LCD 5 has faster bass and the driver speed captures double bass string vibrations (on Jorge Roeder’s solo album or Blue Train, for examples), thus making it sound more realistic to me. I think level can be EQ’d up on HEKSE, but I didn’t think it was as resolving in the lower frequencies. If you can audition both, I’d pick a double bass-only track and I think most people will hear the textural difference.

Anyway, we all have such different ears that I offer none of this as argument, but just as another guy’s opinion that might help anyone making a purchase. The good news is that there’s no ‘going wrong’ here!

 

[squashi]

Thanks for the great comparisons, Squashi. I have an LCD 5 (EQ’d to the Roon preset) and an HEKSE (no EQ) at home, both driven out of a GSX Mini fed by a Chord Qutest and iFi Zen Stream. I thought that I’d just throw some additional comparison points out there.

• Soundstage: in my opinion, this is the most prominent difference. The larger cups of the HEKSE (my ears swim in these) render a much wider sound field, so you do get the sense that you are in the 10th+ row of a music hall. The drawback is the stage appears more two-dimensional. By contrast, the LCD 5 has an ‘on stage’ presentation, in which the instruments are arranged in a horseshoe around you. Both are great presentations and just a matter of personal preference.
• Imaging: in complete agreement with Squashi’s descriptions here. Instrument separation and locational cues are meaningfully better on the LCD 5 (Robber by Weather Station drove this home for me where there’s a fair bit going on that can either be separated or enveloping depending on the headphones).
• Vocals: to my ears, the HEKSE has sweeter vocals – smoother and less prominent. Joni Mitchell’s Case of You is an example of a track that can create sibilance depending on treble sensitivity; HEKSE is an easier listen and it’d probably be my choice for vocal-only.
• Timbre: when listening to a track like School Days (Stanley Clarke), it appeared that the leading edge of notes, particularly on crunchier instruments (electric guitar) come across more clearly on the LCD 5. I hesitate to call the HEKSE ‘soft’ in an absolute sense, but it is a smoother listen, which does come at the cost of some ‘twang’. You get more of that ‘plucked’ quality on the LCD 5, but HEKSE is not a slouch in this department.
• Bass: I am not a bass-head, so, for me, this category tends to be about texture. LCD 5 has faster bass and the driver speed captures double bass string vibrations (on Jorge Roeder’s solo album or Blue Train, for examples), thus making it sound more realistic to me. I think level can be EQ’d up on HEKSE, but I didn’t think it was as resolving in the lower frequencies. If you can audition both, I’d pick a double bass-only track and I think most people will hear the textural difference.

Anyway, we all have such different ears that I offer none of this as argument, but just as another guy’s opinion that might help anyone making a purchase. The good news is that there’s no ‘going wrong’ here!

I honestly don't see a single thing I differ on at all... did you steal my ears at some point?

Good insight into the soundstage shape, I realise I never called out soundstage shapes properly, I'll go update my review with that info at some point. Honestly the HEKSE and Susvara have a similar soundstage "shape" to my ears, HEKSE being a little bigger stage and a tiny bit more 2D. My Bravura's are EVEN more 2D only expands left and right to my ears. And LCD-5 is the exception being much more 3D. Utopias I don't remember but I'll listen to them tmr.

I have much to update on anyways, like other chains for LCD-5 etc . I also have an idea to reorganize the current comparisons into an even easier-to-read manner

In my part 2 review, I'll go over much of the nuances of each music genre, and how each headphone works for the genre. Still pondering the best way to organize that information, honestly might be a month until I'm happy enough with the part 2 review.

 

[bagwell359]

Heard them at a meet the other day. The quality of the bass textures and timbre were immediately obvious. It's pretty far away from the OG LCD-4, so if that's your reference you might find the 5 wanting. I'd say a cross between a DCA E2 and HE-6 SE - which is a very good place to be.

It's very nice overall, but in a different set-up I did like the Caldera more in the mids. But neither was head and shoulders over the HEX Stealth, or the MX-4 that was also there, better yes, but didn't take my breath away. I had about 8 min on each so this is an impression, not a review. None of those 4 got to my personal top list: DCA Voce, Susvara, Rall CA-1a, 200 ohm LCD-4.

 

[squashi]

Heard them at a meet the other day. The quality of the bass textures and timbre were immediately obvious. It's pretty far away from the OG LCD-4, so if that's your reference you might find the 5 wanting. I'd say a cross between a DCA E2 and HE-6 SE - which is a very good place to be.

It's very nice overall, but in a different set-up I did like the Caldera more in the mids. But neither was head and shoulders over the HEX Stealth, or the MX-4 that was also there, better yes, but didn't take my breath away. I had about 8 min on each so this is an impression, not a review. None of those 4 got to my personal top list: DCA Voce, Susvara, Rall CA-1a, 200 ohm LCD-4.

I think it's my LCD-5 you tried

Just keep in mind the LCD-5 normally doesn't have great timber, it's really takes some specific EQ, or in my case, the cable I used (somehow) improved it.

I really regret not trying out the caldera more, I find myself not using my atriums since it doesn't have the resolution of my other headphones, so really considering a caldera, but perhaps it's too similar to LCD-5.

Either way I am reworking my comparisons with more accuracy and better descriptions, as well as adding a couple new sections to compare all the headphones I currently own. Should all be up soon!

 

[roadcykler]

Wondering if others have this issue and how do you resolve it, if so? I've communicated with Audeze and they said it wouldn't cause issues but IMO, moisture isn't a good thing with electronics. I bought some of those small desiccant packets and plan to use those but wanted to see what others may be doing to prevent this or clear it up if it happens.

 

[soundofsingle]

any other genres?

Drum and Bass
Bass club
Dub Techno
Dubstep