[KaiSc]

So using Peace APO causes pre-ringing, but is it something is actually audible? What does ringing sound like? It is difficult to compare quickly due to the big volume swings.

Equalizer APO uses IIR Filters.
https://sourceforge.net/p/equalizer...ter-with-custom-coefficients-since-version-09
These are Minimum Phase and don’t cause pre-ringing.

 

[planar shill]

Equalizer APO uses IIR Filters.
https://sourceforge.net/p/equalizerapo/wiki/Configuration reference/#filter-with-custom-coefficients-since-version-09
These are Minimum Phase and don’t cause pre-ringing.

So it won't blunt transients?

 

[marcan]

So it won't blunt transients?

You have post-ringing which is more natural and less noticeable. Post-ringing is an audio artifact that occurs after a transient sound, characterized by a prolonged, oscillating echo effect.
Whether it is noticeable depends on the specific equalizer used, the settings of that EQ, and the sensitivity of the listener.

 

[KaiSc]

So it won't blunt transients?

Post-ringing is what makes a musical instrument:
A drumskin, a string vibrating after being hit or plugged, an air-volume or a soundboard of an instrument resonating after being exited etc. etc.
Without resonances - no instrumental colors, no music.

So a little extra post-ringing usually stays unnoticed, at least doesn’t sound unnatural.
This is true if EQ isn’t overdone and / or misstuned.

EQ well done even can reduce ringing of a transducer and improve it’s transient response by some amount.
Examples can be found here:
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/
Look at both waterfall plots, before and after EQ of several ‘phones, eg.:
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/akg/k701/
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/1more-triple-driver-over-ear/

A prerequisite for this is, that the EQ and the transducer work by the same principle, which typically is Minimum Phase in nature.
With acoustical transducers this is only partly the case, as sound reflections of all kind are not Minimum Phase.


It’s easy to find out:
Check what sounds better TO YOU - that‘s the only thing that counts.

 

[Exekuhtor]

I just got a reply from Audeze, they said there is no need for the spacer with the new pads! I just bought a new pair directly from Audeze because Thomann doesn't have any in stock. So for anyone with old pads, just get new ones and don't worry about the spacer anymore, you won't need it.

 

[marcan]

Post-ringing is what makes a musical instrument:
A drumskin, a string vibrating after being hit or plugged, an air-volume or a soundboard of an instrument resonating after being exited etc. etc.
No resonances - no instrumental colors.

So a little extra post-ringing usually stays unnoticed, at least doesn’t sound unnatural.
This is true if EQ isn’t overdone and / or misstuned.

EQ well done even can reduce ringing of a transducer and improve it’s transient response by some amount.
A prerequisite for this is, that the EQ and the transducer work by the same principle, which typically is Minimum Phase in nature.
With acoustical transducers this is only partly the case, as sound reflections of all kind are not Minimum Phase.


It’s easy to find out:
Check what sounds better TO YOU - that‘s the only thing that counts.

Using equalization (EQ) to reduce certain unwanted resonances can improve sound clarity, but it's important to note that this might also impact the original transient response. Indeed, by reducing a resonance, the EQ might also attenuate the original transient, which does not necessarily constitute an improvement in transient response.

Furthermore, adding post-ringing to a physical resonance, unless these two elements are perfectly aligned in reverse phase (which is highly improbable), will inevitably cause some diffusion of the transient.

So it won't blunt transients?

It will blunt the transients but the primary goal of an EQ is to alter the system's frequency response. This alteration is certainly more perceptible than the subtle changes in the temporal domain introduced by the EQ.
So do what makes your ears happy, but just keep in mind that eq has it's price particularly on the transient because it will also introduce changes in the temporal domain.

 

[Dixter]

If you take a in ear mic recording of a fr sweep of your headphone and allow DSP to flatten out the FR curve of the headphone/ear interactions then you can allow the DSP to add in EQ that would reproduce a 24 channel super high end listening room.... thats a good way of creating predictable ringing via DSP/EQ .... and yes you do get full separation of the 24 channels in a headphone.... welcome to the magic of the A16 Realiser....

 

[planar shill]

I don't really understand how all this works, but on every forum I have ever asked I get mixed responses. When I try and listen for it, it is very difficult to tell because I have to volume match to the transient in question with and without EQ every time. The time delay and the subtle nature of what I am listening for make it too hard to judge. I can't even buy another LCD-4 and identical amp to test because there's too much FR variance between the units. I guess I will just never know the answer.

 

[LowBeat91]

I don't really understand how all this works, but on every forum I have ever asked I get mixed responses. When I try and listen for it, it is very difficult to tell because I have to volume match to the transient in question with and without EQ every time. The time delay and the subtle nature of what I am listening for make it too hard to judge. I can't even buy another LCD-4 and identical amp to test because there's too much FR variance between the units. I guess I will just never know the answer.

For a fee I would be willing to lend you my LCD 4 so you can test it. There are also the current drivers (were renewed a month ago).

 

[ansel1]

I picked up the Decware ZMF Reference OTL, and am happy to report that the LCD-4 actually works really well with it. You just need to turn up the input voltage pots to max. It was a pleasant surprise. I was expecting I'd only be able to run dynamics with it.

 

[Exekuhtor]

200 ohm (mine measure at ~178) are such a weird number, even more when you think about the fact that it's a planar. Are there even other high impedance planars?
It seems that i have to wait a bit for the original pads, so i also bought the Dekoni Elite Sheepskin ones which should arrive in a few days. I just can't let my new toy sit in a box for 2-3 weeks or so until i get the original ones...

 

[TheAbyss2022]

200 ohm (mine measure at ~178) are such a weird number, even more when you think about the fact that it's a planar. Are there even other high impedance planars?
It seems that i have to wait a bit for the original pads, so i also bought the Dekoni Elite Sheepskin ones which should arrive in a few days. I just can't let my new toy sit in a box for 2-3 weeks or so until i get the original ones...

That is strange...not sure if impedance changes over time or that was straight from factory.

Modhouse Tungsten double sided driver is 155ohms and Audeze LCD 3 is 110ohms. Most planars are below 100ohms and I believe the LCD 4 is the highest impedance for any planar ever made but I could be wrong on that.

 

[Exekuhtor]

Yeah, i think it's very unlikely that the impedance changes over time, it's gotta be unit variation, which was also said to be a thing when talking about the LCD-4, some reviews contradict each other so much... Even on the Headphoneshow ranking list Goldensound and Resolve mention the unit variation of the LCD-4.
The variation in the upper midrange / treble is talked about a lot. I'm very happy with the sound of mine when it comes to that.

I also don't think you can "benefit" from that high impedance like from a dynamic driver, right? Like, a 200-600 ohm headphone will get most likely bass boosted on a tube amp, but a planar does not care.

 

[ansel1]

I don't know...a tube amp *might* not interact with a high impedence planar the same way as a high impedence dynamic...I'm not sure. But at least it lets you try it out. Like, it's pretty cool that I can run the LCD-4 on an OTL amp with no huge downsides.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

I don't know...a tube amp *might* not interact with a high impedence planar the same way as a high impedence dynamic...I'm not sure. But at least it lets you try it out. Like, it's pretty cool that I can run the LCD-4 on an OTL amp with no huge downsides.

Low impedence planars are generally not recommended to run on OTL amps, LCD 4 works fine because of its high impedence.