[goldendarko]

I prefer to think of it as calling a spade a spade. The headphone market is quickly doing the same thing the speaker market has done, prices are getting out of hand. They literally just doubled the price on their TOTL can. So next it will be $8k and eventually $16k. Where does the price gouging stop. These are headphones not medical instruments. No way it costs this much to produce them, people are just willing to pay that much unfortunately and unless we put our foot down as consumers the prices will continue to escalate.

 

[potkettleblack]

wow! a post that likens luxury cars to high-end cans, while praising the free market and calling folks who question the rapidly escalating price of totl cans whiners. i've never seen anything like that here before.

Everyone should be making this their signature.

 

[IPodPJ]

I'm 40-plus pages into this thread and don't know if I can keep going. I've never seen such unseemly whining as I've found here, regarding the price of the LCD-4.

Look, I drive a newish $42,000 Mercedes C-300 4-Matic. It's a nice car. I'm happy with it.

Now, do you think that when I heard that the price of the new Mercedes Maybach S600 is $190,000, I got angry? Do you think I headed over to the Mercedes forum to complain about how "ridiculous" and "greedy" Mercedes is being? Do you think I felt "betrayed"?

I run a business too, just like the good folks at Audeze. You'd better believe that for my top product — nay, for all my products — I charge what the market will bear. Consumers are 100% free to buy it — or to vote with their wallets, buying my more economical offerings instead. Or they can go to the cheaper competition. Good on them. Long live choice. Long live free markets. Entry level value or top-of-the-line quality/exclusivity, it's all good.

If you don't want to plunk down the money for an SR-009, an Abyss, an LCD-4, or for the new $55,000 Sennheiser Orpheus, that's fine. That's your right as a consumer.

Just as you can make a wise choice by staying at the Hilton instead of the Four Seasons (I know I do). It makes no sense to get mad at the Four Seasons for not having rooms that cost $150 a night.

In the real world, these options can and do co-exist quite happily. It's no different in the world of personal audio. Whiners, deal already.

:thumbsup_tone1::thumbsup_tone1::thumbsup_tone1:

Exactly my sentiments. Yes, we have a choice. I chose to build a 6 figure system over the course of 8 years because it was a goal I set, and I'm not someone who has multiple sources or multiple amps. Some people here have 100 pairs of headphones which I personally think is stupid but it's their choice. I have 4 headphones. All previous ones were sold in the past. I kept my HD800 from 2009 (which now has flaking pads), I got an LCD-3 in 2012, I traded a first gen iPod Touch worth $90 for a great quality pair of HD650 (killer trade) in 2013, and just got my LCD-4 last month in 2016 (which as far as I'm concerned is my endgame headphone). (I was considering the HE1K but I have never cared for the inefficiency of HiFiMan's phones, and I think the LCD-4 are far superior for my tastes.)

You want to know what's not fair and something I have no choice about? Paying $1,040 per month for a 1 bedroom, 630 sq. ft. apartment just because I live in Southern California. And that's not even considered expensive, as my building is average at best and not in a bad area but not in a great one! Sure, I could spend $700 if I want to live in Watts or Compton..... For a really nice 1 bedroom apartment my size, you'll shell out $2500 a month. THAT'S what I consider unfair as I have no choice in the matter, except my only choice is to live in a rent controlled apartment (built prior to 1975) so that my rent only goes up 3-5% per year. In non-rent controlled buildings, they could charge me $1500 one month and then tell me next month it's going up to $1900, and I would be forced to pay it or move out in 30 days. Just to live and pay my bare essentials, it costs me $130 per day. Frankly, that's nuts.

While I can't claim to have a $42,000 Mercedes, I am happy with my newest car, finally. The only decent thing that happened to me here in SoCal, which I feel is a good deal after having a total lemon of a car leased for three years that had 17 major problems wrong with it that they refused to fix, including only getting an average of 4.2mpg, yes you read that correctly (a $20.5K Hyundai Elantra, built in Korea), I was able to get a $30K Hyundai Sonata Limited (built in the USA, and the engine made in the USA) — (for only $13 more per month instead of the $90 it should have cost because I had $5500 in auto coupons and discounts. But I was never reimbursed by Hyundai for the bad brakes in the previous car they wouldn't fix which resulted in 2 accidents (only one reported, and one the same day it came out of the dealership saying there was nothing wrong), nor reimbursed for the $2300 in gas I spent driving only 9,000 miles in 3 years. (They were supposed to pay us all a $350 settlement 18 months ago but people are still fighting the case demanding more money, as they should! A car advertised to get 29mpg average city that only got 4.2mpg is a major lemon!)

But anyway, my point was just that I agree with the poster. Some things we have complete control over what we choose to spend our money on, whether the audio companies are inflating the prices due to perceived value or not, and some things we have practically no control over. (And with regards to the LCD4 over the 3, there are some significantly more expensive improvements. If you factor in the R&D costs on the new diaphragm, the added costs of the new headband, the added costs of the double Fluxor magnets and dual Fazors, the chrome grills, and the more expensive dual-layer pelican case you can see there are obvious increases in cost over the LCD3, and that doesn't even include the fact they claim they can barely produce even 20 units a month as each headphone takes 2 weeks to make.)

 

[Fifinder]

I wouldn't have had an insurmountable problem paying $3,995 for these, but who pays full retail? I sure don't. My headphone dealer looks out for me, bless him. I got the HE-1000 for $2,400, and the LCD-4 for $3,350. Maybe that makes it more palatable for the people who keep screaming about price?

 

[up late]

it just might but that's obviously no concern of yours

 

[IPodPJ]

I wouldn't have had an insurmountable problem paying $3,995 for these, but who pays full retail? I sure don't. My headphone dealer looks out for me, bless him. I got the HE-1000 for $2,400, and the LCD-4 for $3,350. Maybe that makes it more palatable for the people who keep screaming about price?

Just a word of advice, that's not something one should go around advertising as you will have people irrationally jumping all over you claiming you are a shill.

But I can promise you, you are one among hundreds or maybe thousands that receive discounts on this site for either headphones or components. And since you opened up the can of worms I personally know people that have paid a lot less than you, not that I would ever name them as that's their business.

 

[negura]

 

 
This posting was going well, until HEK was mentioned. I guess I still agree on the original statement.
 
I would suggest to also include: sample variance and user rig to the list of factors. Could the former be a factor with LCD-4 too?

 

[IPodPJ]

Could the former be a factor with LCD-4 too?

Without a doubt.

 

[Fifinder]

Just a word of advice, that's not something one should go around advertising as you will have people irrationally jumping all over you claiming you are a shill.

But I can promise you, you are one among hundreds or maybe thousands that receive discounts on this site for either headphones or components. And since you opened up the can of worms I personally know people that have paid a lot less than you, not that I would ever name them as that's their business.

 
A shill for what or whom? I haven't mentioned the dealer. Not following.

 

[IPodPJ]

A shill for what or whom? I haven't mentioned the dealer. Not following.

I'm just saying, people here get real jumpy. I wrote a positive review because I absolutely love my LCD-4 and immediately I was accused by the first person who read it of working for the company.

That's just how people are here. I was just giving you friendly advice.

 

[Fifinder]

Still not following, but thanks.

 

[up late]

I'm just saying, people here get real jumpy. I wrote a positive review because I absolutely love my LCD-4 and immediately I was accused by the first person who read it of working for the company.

That's just how people are here. I was just giving you friendly advice.

nothing wrong with proclaiming your love for the lcd-4 but you've made some questionable assertions as well, which are unlikely to go unchallenged at this or any other headphone forum

 

[yukihasi]

Usually, when I read mixed review about certain pair of headphones I assume they have good transparency.

 

[Hifi59]

I'm 40-plus pages into this thread and don't know if I can keep going. I've never seen such unseemly whining as I've found here, regarding the price of the LCD-4.

Look, I drive a newish $42,000 Mercedes C-300 4-Matic. It's a nice car. I'm happy with it.

Now, do you think that when I heard that the price of the new Mercedes Maybach S600 is $190,000, I got angry? Do you think I headed over to the Mercedes forum to complain about how "ridiculous" and "greedy" Mercedes is being? Do you think I felt "betrayed"?

I run a business too, just like the good folks at Audeze. You'd better believe that for my top product — nay, for all my products — I charge what the market will bear. Consumers are 100% free to buy it — or to vote with their wallets, buying my more economical offerings instead. Or they can go to the cheaper competition. Good on them. Long live choice. Long live free markets. Entry level value or top-of-the-line quality/exclusivity, it's all good.

If you don't want to plunk down the money for an SR-009, an Abyss, an LCD-4, or for the new $55,000 Sennheiser Orpheus, that's fine. That's your right as a consumer.

Just as you can make a wise choice by staying at the Hilton instead of the Four Seasons (I know I do). It makes no sense to get mad at the Four Seasons for not having rooms that cost $150 a night.

In the real world, these options can and do co-exist quite happily. It's no different in the world of personal audio. Whiners, deal already.

As far as I'm concerned, it's not that "oh my God, 4 grand,are they nuts?" I've never "dwelled" on it but have mentioned it as a personal opinion. It's the cost,performance ratio vs the others in their lineup and I think that's worth mentioning. It's just somewhat out of line from that point of view. That's it. Nothing more. It's a fine headphone despite that opinion. Even Audeze admits a good chunk of that is to recover some r&d. Fine. I knew that going in,yet I bought them anyway ( didn't pay retail either). If one believes that they're worth twice that of the 3s or 4x the price of the 2s, they won't get an argument from me.

 

[zolkis]

I believe most people don't realize how much work is to improve headphones. It's not much less than making good speakers, not even in materials cost. If a company like Stax comes up with a new headphone like the 009 in 10 years they expect to sell about 20k pieces, you can calculate the price on R&D basis only. OK it took much less time to make the LCD-4, so I agree it's more overpriced than Stax 009, but you can drive it more easily and provides comparable quality to perhaps different tastes. So the LCD4 pricing is on market basis. If now Sennheiser makes a 800s or AKG makes a K900 that checks more boxes for a 2/5 of the price, then we have a choice, and Stax and Audeze and Hifiman better pull themselves together. The competition takes care of your price concerns, we should just be able to correctly evaluate them. So let's focus on the sound quality on this forum. Also, cultivate your listening skills, so that opinions here are more trustable and consistent than yesterday. That's the best way to get prices down .