[astrostar59]

Understand, no worries. We need info from buyers on the forum about both equipment reviews and buying experiences. Don't worry about it.

 

[astrostar59]

The LCD4 is a very nice sounding headphone, but it really shines with a Lazuli Ref. cable. It helps a lot in the sometimes peaky upper mids and also nicely tightens up and adds detail and speed to the bass. I tried a bunch of cables for it but the Lazuli was the winner.
(Runner up was the Norne Draug.)

Which Norne Draug was it?

 

[astrostar59]

I went with couple other people my age (21) and all of us could hear the harshness of the Phi. It was just too much.

Nevertheless, it can't be argued that Phi does have a more forward(harsh even) Treble compared to the LCD 4.
Also, it has sibilance which is clear as day, if you can't hear Phi's sibilance then you def do not have perfect hearing in that region.

I agree with your assessment that LCD 4 and Phi have radically different presentations and it's like comparing apples to oranges

I think this is source related. The Abyss is more transparent, enough to 'highlight' a weakness in the source and exaggerate such a phenomenon. The LCD4 has a very forgiving manner in the way it delivers the music, it seems almost impossible to go into harshness, even though it has real transparency and detail. My personal path on the DAC front showed me in no uncertain terms that bits and not bits, and DACs are not DACs. Another subject, but TBH I find it strange how many expect top level sound from their LCD4 or Abyss, which are not unlike 50K+ speakers as regards potential, to deliver top sound from a basic DAC designed on a budget.

I have heard plenty of 'giant killer' DACs that were no such thing, and a few overpriced DACs were likewise not giants. But generally you get what you pay for.... i''ll shut up now. But look beyond the HP or amp is my advice.

 

[rgs9200m]

Astrostar, I actually have 2 Norne cables for Audeze connections, a Draug v2 and a Pure Silver (I use these Nornes on my ZMFs now, which use the same connector as Audeze).
The Silver is actually a bit better on the LCD4 than the Draug v2, but it's hard to get so I didn't mention it.
The Silver has tighter bass and just adds some definition to the whole sonic picture.

I prefer the Danacable because it takes some digital edge off the upper mids I can get with DAVE, so that's where my sonic goals are coming from, just for context.

 

[seamon]

I think this is source related. The Abyss is more transparent, enough to 'highlight' a weakness in the source and exaggerate such a phenomenon. The LCD4 has a very forgiving manner in the way it delivers the music, it seems almost impossible to go into harshness, even though it has real transparency and detail. My personal path on the DAC front showed me in no uncertain terms that bits and not bits, and DACs are not DACs. Another subject, but TBH I find it strange how many expect top level sound from their LCD4 or Abyss, which are not unlike 50K+ speakers as regards potential, to deliver top sound from a basic DAC designed on a budget.

I have heard plenty of 'giant killer' DACs that were no such thing, and a few overpriced DACs were likewise not giants. But generally you get what you pay for.... i''ll shut up now. But look beyond the HP or amp is my advice.

It was connected to a EMM Labs DA2 DAC and amped through Woo Audio WA33 amplifier.

 

[rgs9200m]

Coincidentally, my LCD4 (with the Lazuli Ref) is connected to a EMM Labs XDS1 and is basically awesome. I was just listening last night and was thinking of posting about how magnificent it sounds. (Amp is Headroom Max w/2006 Headroom "control module" upgrade.)

 

[astrostar59]

Woo WA6 SE with the LCD4s??

Has anyone got this amp with their LCD4s, or heard it with them. I am curious about it, if it is up to the job (juice) and how it sounds? I have the Metrum Aurix SS amp which is a really simple design, basically on unity setting (low gain) and using my high output DAC (10v) I am on 2 o'clock for loud listening. I am more curious about how a decent tube HP amp would fair with the LCD4s. As we know they are warmish already, really smooth in the mid treble, so I don't want mushy tubbiness, more dynamics and detail with natural timbre.

 

[JLoud]

I have the LCD4 and woo wa6se and wa5le. Running EML 5u4g rectifiers in both with Sylvania nos 6sn7 and 6de7 drivers and EML 300b in the wa5. I absolutely love them both with the LCD4. The wa6se has plenty of juice for the 4. I like to listen loud and I rarely get to 12 o’clock on the 6. The 5 is a definite step up. And on high gain 11 o’clock is ear bleed levels.
Very detailed with tight controlled bass. Speed is good, transients are very controlled. Love the soundstage. The 6 is good. The 5 is simply sublime. For me at least. And the also sound great with my Utopia.

 

[astrostar59]

I have the LCD4 and woo wa6se and wa5le. Running EML 5u4g rectifiers in both with Sylvania nos 6sn7 and 6de7 drivers and EML 300b in the wa5. I absolutely love them both with the LCD4. The wa6se has plenty of juice for the 4. I like to listen loud and I rarely get to 12 o’clock on the 6. The 5 is a definite step up. And on high gain 11 o’clock is ear bleed levels.
Very detailed with tight controlled bass. Speed is good, transients are very controlled. Love the soundstage. The 6 is good. The 5 is simply sublime. For me at least. And the also sound great with my Utopia.

Thanks for those detailed impressions, Did you ever pitch the 6 against the usual SS suspects (GSX MK2, Bryston, Audio GD etc). I am trying to see if it will be a jump over my little Metrum Aurix. I have the gain, is is more how other amps sound.

 

[JLoud]

I have not. The solid state amps I have tried them with are as follows. Schiit Asgard, Jotenheim, Burson Audio Soloist. The Asgard didn't have enough juice. The Jot had the power but I didn't like the sound stage. The Burson had nice sound stage but bottle necked the details. The LCD4 was just capable of more. Once again IMO.

 

[JLoud]

I was using a Metrum Muesette multibit dac with the above amps. I now use a Schiit Yggy analog 2 with my Woo amps. It is better than the Metrum. But I still use the Metrum, very organic sounding dac. I feel it works well with ss amps. I just enjoy the extra detail and speed of the Yggy with tube amps.

 

[mlxx]

Woo WA6 SE with the LCD4s??

Has anyone got this amp with their LCD4s, or heard it with them. I am curious about it, if it is up to the job (juice) and how it sounds? I have the Metrum Aurix SS amp which is a really simple design, basically on unity setting (low gain) and using my high output DAC (10v) I am on 2 o'clock for loud listening. I am more curious about how a decent tube HP amp would fair with the LCD4s. As we know they are warmish already, really smooth in the mid treble, so I don't want mushy tubbiness, more dynamics and detail with natural timbre.

Looking at the specs of your dac, it has a tube analog stage and if you say it can output 10V, do you even need another amp?
10V will be enough if it can do that into 200 Ohms, have you tried running it direct from just the dac?

 

[astrostar59]

Looking at the specs of your dac, it has a tube analog stage and if you say it can output 10V, do you even need another amp?
10V will be enough if it can do that into 200 Ohms, have you tried running it direct from just the dac?

Yes I see your point. But you need an incredibly low output impedance in the line out to then feed a HP or even a speaker. Most line out from a DAC are about 150ohms or much higher on many tube stages. My DAC is 55 ohms, and bearing in mind you have to apply the 10x law, the output impedance on the output has to be 2 ohms or less.

My Aurix set on low gain is actually NO gain, just using 2 Lunhai output transformers to get the output impedance down and drive with enough current. It has 6v at 100 ohms I believe, so with a 10v input not 2 v input it may be 12v or more. I do have enough gain on the amp for the LCD4s for sure.

I am coming to think then, that the Aurix is a buffered passive on the unity gain setting, almost no component in the signal path. With my Kassandra it sounds fabulous on the LCD4s.

Thus I probably in my case, don't need another amp, it possibly won't do anything good, add more components in the chain and either colour or mask details, which is NOT what I am after.

BTW the Aries Cerat Kassandra is a fantastic DAC, it told me in no uncertain terms how much better the sound get get with a better DAC, and I had some very good DACs before I got it. I would recommend it to anyone who can stretch to it, it is an end game DAC for sure. It isn't cheap at 18K euros but has beat the dCS Vivaldi and many other top DACs I have heard inc the CH Precision C1.

 

[mlxx]

Yes the output impedance is an issue but the 200 Ohms of the LCD4 helps with that, will be about 4x.
Not sure that rule is as relevant with planars though, just a matter of having enough power I think.
You would need an adapter made up to be able to actually try it (like the adapter the Hugo TT2 will need) but it would be something I would do just to know.
Something to consider anyway.

I tried a Viva Egoista 845 and it was spectacular with the LCD4, it made my LCD3 I had at the time sound like the LCD4 too, WA5 was also fantastic.
The Audeze King was one of the best I tried especially in sound stage. Be it tube or SS you need the right match, the LCD4 is very picky in my experience.

 

[astrostar59]

Have run out of amps that I can trial with the LCD4.
This is the final list in order of best in my opinion.
Based on at least a 20-30mins in store demo for each.
Some at different stores with different dac/lcd4.
I think anything the moon and above is top class.
I will give up now, will get one cma800r golden.

viva egoista 845
cma800r golden
cma800r
king, cma800i
wa5
gsx mk2
moon 430ha
v281
blu2/dave
bryston bha-1
rag
cma600i
hugo2
conductor
conductor cv2
mojo

Great list there! So you put the GSX MK2 above the Bryston? Can I ask what was better in the GSX on the LCD4s.