[IPodPJ]

You'd think so, right? Not so. Getting the LCD4 was the first chance I had to listen to my system in 2 years. No time. I hope things change though.

 

[Rico613]

Once I get a sudden windfall I shall buy this and a V281 lol

Good luck with the windfall !   In the meantime, I'm guessing, a used V200 would be a good low cost amp for the LCD-4. 

 

[Torq]

By the way I took those pictures I just need to find a day to throw them on imgur.

You can just post them directly here.
 
If you click the little picture icon in the post editor it'll give you a choice of linking to images on another site, or just uploading them directly to this one - saves a lot of messing around.

 

[sensui123]

Add me to the list being satisfied with the  GS-X mk 2......drives it with ease on medium gain and as usual transparent as heck to just deliver your source (in my case the Pavane fed by BDP-2).  Had a lot of fun last night with jazz and hip hop/r&b.

 

[wdh777]

  Add me to the list being satisfied with the  GS-X mk 2......drives it with ease on medium gain and as usual transparent as heck to just deliver your source (in my case the Pavane fed by BDP-2).  Had a lot of fun last night with jazz and hip hop/r&b.

I agree with that.  Loving my gsx mk2 with the lcd 4s.  using a hugo tt as the dac.  the only issue is I'm getting much less sleep...

 

[Torq]

Had a couple of head-fier friends over last night so they could check out the LCD-4 as well as the new WA5LE.  Rather than speaking for them, I'll point them at the thread and they can chime in if they wish to, but a couple of interesting things came up.
 
The most consistent comment was that there was little dimensionality to the soundstage with the LCD-4.  It had some width, more than other Audeze headphones, but was mostly a relatively narrow and two-dimensional presentation.  That was with them being driven by a WA5LE and a Ragnarok and both fed with Yggdrasil.
 
One of the guys, "B", has heard the 100 ohm versions of the LCD-4 (mine are the new 200 ohm driver) and commented that the soundstage on the original driver was a lot more expansive.  He still maintains a preference for the LCD-4, but he tends to call things as he hears them and this was his most prominent observation.  He has a nice description of how the Abyss renders the soundstage and I won't steal his thunder in using it here ... but I'd tend to agree with it.
 
The other, "J" (though "H" as he'll post here, if he does) said his first listen, last night, to the LCD-4 made him question his existing order for the Abyss.  By the end of the evening he was back to preferring the Abyss.  And, interestingly enough, he found the more holographic presentation they give with the Woo amp a bit overpowering and preferred them via the Ragnarok.
 
Now ... I have a bit more than 250 hours on my LCD-4 at this point and I would still describe them as having a very intimate, two dimensional, soundstage, both with the Woo and the Rok, but I'm interested to see what others are finding there and how much they are seeing that change as they accumulate hours on them.  This is not something I see as a negative, by the way ... I have plenty of music that perfectly suits this more intimate portrayal of space, and my mood often goes in that direction too ... I'm just curious.

 

[Hifi59]

That's good. My Beta22 (or most any balanced Beta22s) is a world class amp and the only downside is no variable gain but it is capable of 40 watts at 8 ohms. RUNNING BALANCED ALWAYS: At 300 ohms on low gain for my HD800 it gets plenty loud on my DACT 4-channel attenuator (not cheap, a $600 attenuator, plus I have a remote control motor drive on it, but anyway) at a setting of 10/24. For my LCD3 it gets very loud at 12/24. But for very loud volume on the LCD4 (newest diaphragm of course) I need 20/24-22/24. So unbalanced is weak. And forget about HiFiMan phones. Can't even drive them more than quiet they are so damn inefficient which is just one of the reasons I'm not very fond of them. But I'd still like a pair of the HE1000 just to have, maybe, not sure yet. So........

Just an FYI...the Hifiman HE-1000 is a bit easier to drive than the LCD-4.

 

[Hifi59]

Had a couple of head-fier friends over last night so they could check out the LCD-4 as well as the new WA5LE.  Rather than speaking for them, I'll point them at the thread and they can chime in if they wish to, but a couple of interesting things came up.

The most consistent comment was that there was little dimensionality to the soundstage with the LCD-4.  It had some width, more than other Audeze headphones, but was mostly a relatively narrow and two-dimensional presentation.  That was with them being driven by a WA5LE and a Ragnarok and both fed with Yggdrasil.

One of the guys, "B", has heard the 100 ohm versions of the LCD-4 (mine are the new 200 ohm driver) and commented that the soundstage on the original driver was a lot more expansive.  He still maintains a preference for the LCD-4, but he tends to call things as he hears them and this was his most prominent observation.  He has a nice description of how the Abyss renders the soundstage and I won't steal his thunder in using it here ... but I'd tend to agree with it.

The other, "J" (though "H" as he'll post here, if he does) said his first listen, last night, to the LCD-4 made him question his existing order for the Abyss.  By the end of the evening he was back to preferring the Abyss.  And, interestingly enough, he found the more holographic presentation they give with the Woo amp a bit overpowering and preferred them via the Ragnarok.

Now ... I have a bit more than 250 hours on my LCD-4 at this point and I would still describe them as having a very intimate, two dimensional, soundstage, both with the Woo and the Rok, but I'm interested to see what others are finding there and how much they are seeing that change as they accumulate hours on them.  This is not something I see as a negative, by the way ... I have plenty of music that perfectly suits this more intimate portrayal of space, and my mood often goes in that direction too ... I'm just curious.

To me, all Lcds are basically warm and "yummy" sounding to various degrees.These are good traits to me. So it' seems logical to me that driving them with a warm and yummy amp is not the road to take. Sure, they might still sound good, but for the headphone to be all it can be, I believe they simply call for an energetic, yet clean sounding amp. It's not any more sophisticated than that IMO. This generally calls for a ss amp and a good one at that. The Bursons are my solution to this as many reviewers agree. I am confident that there are many other ss amps and maybe some hybrids that will also have great synergy with the Lcds. By the same token, I would shy away from using this type amp with fast headphones such as the HD-800 and the Fostex TH-900 amongst others. My personal experiences have pretty much confirmed this even though I wished some of the amps had better synergy with my Lcds.

 

[Torq]

To me, all Lcds are basically warm and "yummy" sounding to various degrees.These are good traits to me. So it' seems logical to me that driving them with a warm and yummy amp is not the road to take. Sure, they might still sound good, but for the headphone to be all it can be, I believe they simply call for an energetic, yet clean sounding amp. It's not any more sophisticated than that IMO. This generally calls for a ss amp and a good one at that. The Bursons are my solution to this as many reviewers agree. I am confident that there are many other ss amps and maybe some hybrids that will also have great synergy with the Lcds. By the same token, I would shy away from using this type amp with fast headphones such as the HD-800 and the Fostex TH-900 amongst others. My personal experiences have pretty much confirmed this even though I wished some of the amps had better synergy with my Lcds.

I wouldn't disagree with you, but I'm not driving them with a "warm and yummy" amp ...
 
I'm sure the WA5LE with an appropriate set of tubes might go down that path, but it certainly it's very neutral with the stock tubes, is not lacking in speed and it projects a large and quite holographic soundstage.  I'm also using a Ragnarok which is not known for being particularly laid-back.
 
The LCD-4 signature is definitely of the normal Audeze variety (I've owned pre-fazor LCD-2.2 for years), so it's not unexpected.
 
I'm not looking to change how the LCD-4 sounds (if I want a different signature I'll use my Abyss or HD800S), just exploring the different reports of 3D/wide vs. 2D/narrow soundstage between different users and driver revisions.

 

[Hifi59]

I wouldn't disagree with you, but I'm not driving them with a "warm and yummy" amp ...

I'm sure the WA5LE with an appropriate set of tubes might go down that path, but it certainly it's very neutral with the stock tubes, is not lacking in speed and it projects a large and quite holographic soundstage.  I'm also using a Ragnarok which is not known for being particularly laid-back.

The LCD-4 signature is definitely of the normal Audeze variety (I've owned pre-fazor LCD-2.2 for years), so it's not unexpected.

I'm not looking to change how the LCD-4 sounds (if I want a different signature I'll use my Abyss or HD800S), just exploring the different reports of 3D/wide vs. 2D/narrow soundstage between different users and driver revisions.

I hear ya. I was just stating a general opinion to a question that wasn't asked.

 

[jlbrach]

I am using my LCD-4 with a Moon Neo 430 and the Yiggy DAC....I previously was using the RAG with the Yiggy...I find the Moon Neo 430 to have a larger soundstage and be a sweeter listen.....FWIIW the HEK is a bit easier to drive than is the LCD-4 which is the toughest cans to drive i have yet owned....I have owned just about everything other than the HE-6 or Abyss....the LCD-4 has a wider soundstage than previous LCD's but it is not as wide and expansive as the HEK or the HD800S...different sound completely.....if you like the audeze sound you will love the 4's..if not go for the HEK IMHO 

 

[Torq]

  I am using my LCD-4 with a Moon Neo 430 and the Yiggy DAC....I previously was using the RAG with the Yiggy...I find the Moon Neo 430 to have a larger soundstage and be a sweeter listen.....FWIIW the HEK is a bit easier to drive than is the LCD-4 which is the toughest cans to drive i have yet owned....I have owned just about everything other than the HE-6 or Abyss....the LCD-4 has a wider soundstage than previous LCD's but it is not as wide and expansive as the HEK or the HD800S...different sound completely.....if you like the audeze sound you will love the 4's..if not go for the HEK IMHO 

Driving the LCD-4 is interesting (I own, among others, the Abyss, LCD-4 and HD800S).  From my Ragnarok the LCD-4 have me at least two hours further round the dial than the Abyss.  On my WA5LE they're closer, but the LCD-4 is still wound up higher per the volume knob.  However, put the Abyss on my WA6 and it is into clipping VERY quickly where as the LCD-4 doesn't cause that amp to clip at all.
 
No question that the LCD-4 have a wider soundstage than my LCD-2.2c, or any other Audeze headphone I've heard, but it remains completely two dimensional ... so far.
 
Based on what I've gleaned from many of your other posts, I shall have to make the effort to listen to the Neo 430!

 

[draytonklammer]

I don't feel like the LCD-4 is two dimensional at all. Playing certain songs I have to check behind me sometimes.

 

[musicman59]

Driving the LCD-4 is interesting (I own, among others, the Abyss, LCD-4 and HD800S).  From my Ragnarok the LCD-4 have me at least two hours further round the dial than the Abyss.  On my WA5LE they're closer, but the LCD-4 is still wound up higher per the volume knob.  However, put the Abyss on my WA6 and it is into clipping VERY quickly where as the LCD-4 doesn't cause that amp to clip at all.

No question that the LCD-4 have a wider soundstage than my LCD-2.2c, or any other Audeze headphone I've heard, but it remains completely two dimensional ... so far.

Based on what I've gleaned from many of your other posts, I shall have to make the effort to listen to the Neo 430!

The LCD-4 is 97db efficiency and the Abyss is only 85db. That is a huge difference. The Abyss will require significant more current to drive them that's why the amp goes to clipping with them.

 

[Torq]

The LCD-4 is 97db efficiency and the Abyss is only 85db. That is a huge difference. The Abyss will require significant more current to drive them that's why the amp goes to clipping with them.

Oh, I get that.

Just interesting to see the Ragnarok and WA5 (and the MHA100 now that I think about it) more easily handling the Abyss than the LCD-4.