[gargani]

Eq ALWAYS introduce distortion in the time domain. There is nothing you can do about it.
You can pick your poison.:
- Minimal Phase eq:
These are mainly analog eq or its algorithmic equivalent. It introduce phase shift in the time/frequency domain. Moreover it will introduce comb filtering and post ringing. So basically it kills the transient;
- Linear Phase:
Essentially digital eq. It solves the phase shift problem but with pre-ringing. So you will hear a bit of the sound before it's attack. Pre ringing adds an unnatural edge to the sound because It adds a sound before it occurs, which is impossible in the real world.

https://www.audiomasterclass.com/ne...se-eq-on-transient-signals-such-as-snare-drum

Sure there are ways to minimize those nasty effects. Use shelf rather than band eq, large q rather than narrow q, cut rather than boost (by boosting you also boost the degraded sound)
Minimal phase eq will sound more natural/analog. and is often used to add some characters to the sound with small amplitude and large q.
Linear phase is often used with a narrowed q as problem fixing.
But as always there is no fixed rules and it depends on your source and the result you are looking for.
My experience tells me that your best bet when you are recording is to get closer to your final intention in order to avoid adding eq.
So yes eq are used everyday for making great music but those are artistic decisions made by great professionals (not always).

I can perfectly understand many people prefer what an eq brings to the table and they probably don't hear the drawbacks.

I'm probably more sensible to post/pre ringing, phase shift and comb filtering. Personally if I continually strap an eq on my system it means there is a flaw in my system and I should change something. At the end my ears will adapt more easily to frequencies imbalance than eq distortion.

It's a bit the same with room acoustic. You can try to fix a room with an eq but you better off fix the room.

Anyway I'm getting off topic and I probably represent a minority here. So don't bother and use your eq guys

Thanks for sharing that link.

 

[gargani]

I agree, highest at 20-40hz, then back down to "neutral" level before 60-70hz, I do not like the "boomy" type midbass around 70-100hz, I think leaving the 2C bass at "stock" is wasting the massive potential they have for sub bass. You can EQ 4-5db extra sub bass around 20-40hz with no problems.

Overall if you like linear bass then that is great, you have no need to EQ, if you like the headphones but think they are lacking bass, simply EQ some more bass.

I think telling him to avoid EQ, because of these minor problems, is not good advice, these "issues" are very minor compared to having the frequency response that you want, most people will not even notice this "smearing" and "time domain issues" etc. Because they are not very audible unless you are literally sat there trying to hear them.

I agree, If people prefer the bass on the lcd2c that's fine; but if someone wants a little more bass, the lcd2c responds nicely to bass eq. The (to me) slight drawbacks of using eq are minor compared to the potential benefits.
It's up to people to decide for themselves. I Don't think it's fair to demonize using eq.

 

[RatFarm]

When I got my first LCD2C during the introductory promotional I was underwhelmed with what I was supposed to hear (according to reviews) and sold them. After getting a more powerful amp I repurchased the LCD2C and came to realize they absolutely need power to bring out the muscular bass i heard they should have. If extended bass response is what you are missing then I would suggest you need a more powerful amp. I bought a Questyle Twelve amp and could not be happier with the improved sonics with all of my headphones particularly the LCD2C which needs that extra torque from an amp.

 

[clerkpalmer]

When I got my first LCD2C during the introductory promotional I was underwhelmed with what I was supposed to hear (according to reviews) and sold them. After getting a more powerful amp I repurchased the LCD2C and came to realize they absolutely need power to bring out the muscular bass i heard they should have. If extended bass response is what you are missing then I would suggest you need a more powerful amp. I bought a Questyle Twelve amp and could not be happier with the improved sonics with all of my headphones particularly the LCD2C which needs that extra torque from an amp.

What amp were you using originally?

 

[blackdragon87]

Yes, curious to know which amp it was as well

 

[Lohb]

When I got my first LCD2C during the introductory promotional I was underwhelmed with what I was supposed to hear (according to reviews) and sold them. After getting a more powerful amp I repurchased the LCD2C and came to realize they absolutely need power to bring out the muscular bass i heard they should have. If extended bass response is what you are missing then I would suggest you need a more powerful amp. I bought a Questyle Twelve amp and could not be happier with the improved sonics with all of my headphones particularly the LCD2C which needs that extra torque from an amp.

How does the low-end on 2C compare to Quad ERA-1 and also tonality between the 2 ?

 

[scarfacegt]

 

[scarfacegt]

Now the classic is in the sonawork true-fi app.Anyone tried it yet?

 

[betula]

When I got my first LCD2C during the introductory promotional I was underwhelmed with what I was supposed to hear (according to reviews) and sold them. After getting a more powerful amp I repurchased the LCD2C and came to realize they absolutely need power to bring out the muscular bass i heard they should have. If extended bass response is what you are missing then I would suggest you need a more powerful amp. I bought a Questyle Twelve amp and could not be happier with the improved sonics with all of my headphones particularly the LCD2C which needs that extra torque from an amp.

I second this. The 2C sounds ok from Mojo, but my Qutest/Questyle CMA600i combo brings the best out of it. Regarding the bass it is just heavier, more authoritative, better layered and detailed with better extension.
I think this is what you can expect from any powerful amp when the 2c is getting enough power/current.

 

[Focux]

hey all, first ime trying planars and demo-ed the LCD3 earlier. found them to be very quick and and high resolving with lots of detail as compared to dynamic driver cans. however, the tone of the HD800S/650 was closer to what i wanted. planars came across as less organic than dynamic drivers.

i alr own the 650 so i think it's kinda pointless to have yet another dynamic driver; is the LCD2 or 2C warmer than the LCD3? after i tried the LCD 3 i put on the Elear and the loss of detail was simply massive (abt 10-15% lesser).

thanks for your suggestions =)

 

[BrotherKathos]

I’m firmly in the eq camp, but high quality responsible analog eq. Less is better, and always eq down if possible. Sure I like to go pure sometimes, but I always end up going back to eq. All this audio snake oil jargon about the negative effects of eq is kinda ridiculous to me. Maybe these people with dog ears can hear time domain issues blah blah, but the vast majority of people simply cannot. Its like how some people on certain forums jump up and down about dac and amp measurements that are completely inaudible, but still claim dacs must sound bad because of some jitter artifacts at negative 140db. Crazy....

If something sounds good to your ears, who cares how you got there. The 2C is a great baseline planar for people who want a relaxing sound with deep linear bass. Its the only headphone I’ve ever heard that can hit low frequency like my svs subs. Sure there is not as much energy behind them unless you have a near 6 watt per channel amp like my thx or other high powered ones, but even your iphone will drive them just fine in pure form. But if you want to eq, especially boosting the low frequency you will need some power. Same reason why a 1000 watt 12 hits harder than 100 watts.

I agree that closed back dynamics can have more impact in mid bass, especially noticed on the drum kick, but they fall way short of Audeze planars when it comes to bass resolution and extension. Only my lcd2c can give me the effortless deep bass for AES Dana tracks. My beyerdynamics dt 770 can’t even begin to compete, neither my sennheiser hd6xx no matter how much eq I throw at them. With a powerfull enough amp, it feels like you could shake your teeth out your skull with 2c bass boost eq, and they still remain very tight. Dynamics get bloated alot faster in my experience.

 

[omniweltall]

I’m firmly in the eq camp, but high quality responsible analog eq. Less is better, and always eq down if possible. Sure I like to go pure sometimes, but I always end up going back to eq. All this audio snake oil jargon about the negative effects of eq is kinda ridiculous to me. Maybe these people with dog ears can hear time domain issues blah blah, but the vast majority of people simply cannot. Its like how some people on certain forums jump up and down about dac and amp measurements that are completely inaudible, but still claim dacs must sound bad because of some jitter artifacts at negative 140db. Crazy....

If something sounds good to your ears, who cares how you got there. The 2C is a great baseline planar for people who want a relaxing sound with deep linear bass. Its the only headphone I’ve ever heard that can hit low frequency like my svs subs. Sure there is not as much energy behind them unless you have a near 6 watt per channel amp like my thx or other high powered ones, but even your iphone will drive them just fine in pure form. But if you want to eq, especially boosting the low frequency you will need some power. Same reason why a 1000 watt 12 hits harder than 100 watts.

I agree that closed back dynamics can have more impact in mid bass, especially noticed on the drum kick, but they fall way short of Audeze planars when it comes to bass resolution and extension. Only my lcd2c can give me the effortless deep bass for AES Dana tracks. My beyerdynamics dt 770 can’t even begin to compete, neither my sennheiser hd6xx no matter how much eq I throw at them. With a powerfull enough amp, it feels like you could shake your teeth out your skull with 2c bass boost eq, and they still remain very tight. Dynamics get bloated alot faster in my experience.

I wanted to reply something like this yesterday, but I didn't have the energy left

I understand if there is a possible downside to analog EQ. I'm not disagreeing with it. But hearing it is something else. So far, I haven't been able to hear anything. You listen with your ears. So, if you can't pick up anything, it wont matter. Placebo is another thing altogether.

But I also get when people don't want to use EQ. But worrying about some post-ringing is not necessary.

 

[BrotherKathos]

I wanted to reply something like this yesterday, but I didn't have the energy left

I understand if there is a possible downside to analog EQ. I'm not disagreeing with it. But hearing it is something else. So far, I haven't been able to hear anything. You listen with your ears. So, if you can't pick up anything, it wont matter. Placebo is another thing altogether.

But I also get when people don't want to use EQ. But worrying about some post-ringing is not necessary.

Yeah, if they can actually hear that ringing or those time domain issues etc, then i guess they are better of sticking with no eq. This hobby is about enjoyment of music, not geeking out on audio specs. Its almost similar to some people who will only listen to ‘well recorded’ music regardless if the music itself is engaging... I’ll take a crap recording of a great song over a masterpiece of noise.

 

[betula]

I’m firmly in the eq camp, but high quality responsible analog eq. Less is better, and always eq down if possible. Sure I like to go pure sometimes, but I always end up going back to eq. All this audio snake oil jargon about the negative effects of eq is kinda ridiculous to me. Maybe these people with dog ears can hear time domain issues blah blah, but the vast majority of people simply cannot. Its like how some people on certain forums jump up and down about dac and amp measurements that are completely inaudible, but still claim dacs must sound bad because of some jitter artifacts at negative 140db. Crazy....

If something sounds good to your ears, who cares how you got there. The 2C is a great baseline planar for people who want a relaxing sound with deep linear bass. Its the only headphone I’ve ever heard that can hit low frequency like my svs subs. Sure there is not as much energy behind them unless you have a near 6 watt per channel amp like my thx or other high powered ones, but even your iphone will drive them just fine in pure form. But if you want to eq, especially boosting the low frequency you will need some power. Same reason why a 1000 watt 12 hits harder than 100 watts.

I agree that closed back dynamics can have more impact in mid bass, especially noticed on the drum kick, but they fall way short of Audeze planars when it comes to bass resolution and extension. Only my lcd2c can give me the effortless deep bass for AES Dana tracks. My beyerdynamics dt 770 can’t even begin to compete, neither my sennheiser hd6xx no matter how much eq I throw at them. With a powerfull enough amp, it feels like you could shake your teeth out your skull with 2c bass boost eq, and they still remain very tight. Dynamics get bloated alot faster in my experience.

Not always, but I think in many cases dropping EQ is like dropping bad habits. As you upgrade to higher and higher-end gears they need less and less EQ-ing. If you stick to your familiar EQ then you might never appreciate the higher resolution and more sublime balance of higher-end equipment let it be headphones or amps.

I have recently read about Rob Watts journey how he has improved his DACs. When he was talking about noise floor modulation, he said even hardly measurable differences were audible. Looking at numbers and knowing physics they shouldn't have had an audible effect, yet they had. This made him to further improve his DACs to lower noise floor modulation which was going against common sense but were still audible for him. And in my opinion he makes class leading DACs. My point is, immeasurable differences are sometimes still audible.

Of course, at the end of the day only your ears and happiness matters. I agree with your points regarding the 2C. Exceptional planar for a relaxing sound with deep bass. I love Aes Dana too.

Dynamic hp's bass is different. Mid bass is always more than planars but they run out of juice in sub-bass. After switching to planars, anytime I go back to dynamics I sense a loss in bass quality but a gain in mid-bass quantity. Sure, more mid-bass sometimes is more fun. But I find my fun recently in higher quality versus higher quantity. To me the 2C's bass kills any dynamic headphones bass including the Clear.

 

[BrotherKathos]

Not always, but I think in many cases dropping EQ is like dropping bad habits. As you upgrade to higher and higher-end gears they need less and less EQ-ing. If you stick to your familiar EQ then you might never appreciate the higher resolution and more sublime balance of higher-end equipment let it be headphones or amps.

I have recently read about Rob Watts journey how he has improved his DACs. When he was talking about noise floor modulation, he said even hardly measurable differences were audible. Looking at numbers and knowing physics they shouldn't have had an audible effect, yet they had. This made him to further improve his DACs to lower noise floor modulation which was going against common sense but were still audible for him. And in my opinion he makes class leading DACs. My point is, immeasurable differences are sometimes still audible.

Of course, at the end of the day only your ears and happiness matters. I agree with your points regarding the 2C. Exceptional planar for a relaxing sound with deep bass. I love Aes Dana too.

Dynamic hp's bass is different. Mid bass is always more than planars but they run out of juice in sub-bass. After switching to planars, anytime I go back to dynamics I sense a loss in bass quality but a gain in mid-bass quantity. Sure, more mid-bass sometimes is more fun. But I find my fun recently in higher quality versus higher quantity. To me the 2C's bass kills any dynamic headphones bass including the Clear.

I agree about the unmeasurable things having an audible effect. Mainly because I don’t think we know everything about audio to say one way or the other. All i can do is go by my ears. I cant tell any change at all in using eq other than the added bass i get. nothing else changes at all to my ears.

And I’m not convinced i could get a more satisfying sound out of a more expensive set of gear if i was able to eq my lower end stuff to reproduce the same frequency plot. The differences if audible would be due to the different implementation instead of quality. quality in audio is way too subjective. I always think of that 3 million dollar gold and diamond encrusted bose radio when it comes to really expensive audio.

I’ve spent way too much money on the uber end home audio equipment that blows even the most niche headphone rigs out of the water as far as price goes only to basically feel meh... And these are very highly acclaimed setup with pro treatment rooms. i’ve demo’d hime theaters in the millions that were not much better in experience than one you could put together at magnolia with some decent forethought.

I don’t really want to go down the same road again with headphones. l’ll stich to function and certain sound signature that’s achievable with reasonable investment.