[Zeleni Zec]

I remember someone from Audeze at Canjam mentioned that the MRI version of the CRBN has much greater dynamic range than the consumer model because they run on a much higher volt (1000v?) amp/system. If that’s true then what is it to stop the standard from moving beyond the Stax Pro Bias 580v standard?

Basically my (noob) question is whether this current standard is holding back the development of better consumer grade implementations with new amp technology?

Purpose of MRI version is mainly communication with patient and noise suppression, not high quality music reproduction. Amplifier for it is custom made and definitely not satisfying any Hi-Fi standard regarding reproduction of low frequencies. I don't think that anyone buying headphones at TOTL level will trade bass for a little bit more dynamic range. I'm not talking about 20 Hz, it's more like anything bellow 150 - 200 Hz. For intelligibility bass is not needed and only make it worse. Noise suppression reduces available output level by the same amount with which noise is suppressed. If you want to reduce noise by 20 dB you have to sacrifice 20 dB from maximum output level.

If you want to cover full range from 20Hz to 20kHz, 580V bias gives you enough problems with sticking of diaphragm to one of the stators and increasing the bias voltage can only make it worse. Higher voltage is not trivial problem for amplifiers as well, parts are more expensive and not easily available. Audeze has no plans to go that way.

 

[amsync]

Purpose of MRI version is mainly communication with patient and noise suppression, not high quality music reproduction. Amplifier for it is custom made and definitely not satisfying any Hi-Fi standard regarding reproduction of low frequencies. I don't think that anyone buying headphones at TOTL level will trade bass for a little bit more dynamic range. I'm not talking about 20 Hz, it's more like anything bellow 150 - 200 Hz. For intelligibility bass is not needed and only make it worse. Noise suppression reduces available output level by the same amount with which noise is suppressed. If you want to reduce noise by 20 dB you have to sacrifice 20 dB from maximum output level.

If you want to cover full range from 20Hz to 20kHz, 580V bias gives you enough problems with sticking of diaphragm to one of the stators and increasing the bias voltage can only make it worse. Higher voltage is not trivial problem for amplifiers as well, parts are more expensive and not easily available. Audeze has no plans to go that way.

Thank you for providing this insight. It makes total sense now that you’ve explained the impact of those design parameters, and giving me even more of an appreciation that Audeze is an engineering company at its core.

 

[Spawn300Z]

I am visiting a friend Sunday and will be able to listen to the CRBN for a few hours. I am taking my 009S for comparison.

What where your thoughts after comparing the two?

 

[Audio Addict]

What where your thoughts after comparing the two?

It probably wasn't fair for the CRBN as the amp has been tweaked for the 009 series with additional capacitors that really bring the 009 into it's full capacity.

When you put the CRBN on the amp, it comes across as too much since the CRBN has been tuned to bring out more of what the additional capacitors add to the Stax.

Hindsight is 20/20 so I can't really give any real insight to the CRBN.

 

[ErichA]

Hi!
Just got my CRBN. Is the black housing supposed to look a little like Marbel, mine just looks, as it has scratches inside.

 

[branislav]

I wonder how the warmer sounding CRBN will pair with BHSE....

 

[Chefguru]

Anyone with new impressions?

 

[KDS315]

It probably wasn't fair for the CRBN as the amp has been tweaked for the 009 series with additional capacitors that really bring the 009 into it's full capacity.

When you put the CRBN on the amp, it comes across as too much since the CRBN has been tuned to bring out more of what the additional capacitors add to the Stax.

Hindsight is 20/20 so I can't really give any real insight to the CRBN.

Power capacitors or within the audio path (which I seriously doubt...)?? If it is on the power side, it will (should at least) have no impact to the CRBN sound (if it has then there is something wrong ith the amp...); if it is on the audio side, its tweaking the amp to behave no longer linear - no good.

 

[Audio Addict]

Power capacitors or within the audio path (which I seriously doubt...)?? If it is on the power side, it will (should at least) have no impact to the CRBN sound (if it has then there is something wrong ith the amp...); if it is on the audio side, its tweaking the amp to behave no longer linear - no good.

The capacitors are part of the tube output circuit. The little I understand you need capacitors here to trap the DC current coming from the tubes and outputting AC to the electrostatic headphones. When setting the values, the Stax SR-009 were used. If the CRBN would have been used I suspect the values would be different.

 

[KDS315]

The capacitors are part of the tube output circuit. The little I understand you need capacitors here to trap the DC current coming from the tubes and outputting AC to the electrostatic headphones. When setting the values, the Stax SR-009 were used. If the CRBN would have been used I suspect the values would be different.

This is not how modern STAX-AMPs work, there are no capacitors in the output circuits (Kevin Gilmore, STAX etc don't use that). ANd it is not dependent onthe type of elctrostoatic headphones. And if that is (or would be), it is not linear in reproduction!! Have a look, I attaced teh BHSE (Blue Hawaii) schamtics, lefr and right stator have no capacitors...

 

[Audio Addict]

This is not how modern STAX-AMPs work, there are no capacitors in the output circuits (Kevin Gilmore, STAX etc don't use that). ANd it is not dependent onthe type of elctrostoatic headphones. And if that is (or would be), it is not linear in reproduction!! Have a look, I attaced teh BHSE (Blue Hawaii) schamtics, lefr and right stator have no capacitors...

All I really care is how it sounds and for me personally, it is the best overall presentation I have heard. Before this system, The BHSE and others with the Stax 009/009s were not sonically worth the investment so I bought normal headphones like the Utopia and the Thekk to get the best sound for my taste.

Maybe with the recent release of the CRBN and the SR-X9000, more amp manufacturers will surface and design new circuits.

Right now on the CRBN, I read several comments about using software to change the sound. Heck, Schiit just came out with the Locki Max

 

[BTD1]

I received my CRBNs today and have done some initial listening. One thing that isn't often mentioned is that if your ear touches the inside of the cup there is a very unpleasant sound and sensation as if the driver material inside the cup is sticking to the cup. It goes away, but if you lean against you chair and press on the outside of the cup this will happen. My initial summary is that there isn't anything so far that the Susvara doesn't do better. This is my first e-stat and I don't see, at this point, what all the fuss is about.

 

[branislav]

I received my CRBNs today and have done some initial listening. One thing that isn't often mentioned is that if your ear touches the inside of the cup there is a very unpleasant sound and sensation as if the driver material inside the cup is sticking to the cup. It goes away, but if you lean against you chair and press on the outside of the cup this will happen. My initial summary is that there isn't anything so far that the Susvara doesn't do better. This is my first e-stat and I don't see, at this point, what all the fuss is about.

Great, we may see one for sale soon

 

[number1sixerfan]

I received my CRBNs today and have done some initial listening. One thing that isn't often mentioned is that if your ear touches the inside of the cup there is a very unpleasant sound and sensation as if the driver material inside the cup is sticking to the cup. It goes away, but if you lean against you chair and press on the outside of the cup this will happen. My initial summary is that there isn't anything so far that the Susvara doesn't do better. This is my first e-stat and I don't see, at this point, what all the fuss is about.

I mentioned this way earlier in the thread, but I think a lot of ppl have had a wrong expectation that the CRBN would supersede the current electrostatic TOTL headphones. It's Audeze first stat offering. From what I'm hearing it's pretty good, but certainly I wouldn't grade all of e-stats based on it. I fully expect that the x9000 is going to be a technically superior headphone that probably surpasses say the 009.

I need way more time, and my opinion possibly may change in the future. But from what I'm hearing, the CRBN doesn't seem better than the 009 or 007 technically. However, it's definitely up there in performance and a lot of people are going to prefer the CRBN because of it's smooth tonality, while still having great resolution and bass (for a stat).

But lastly, excluding the ultra expensive offerings like the SLG or HE-1, TOTL stats are not largely or magically superior in some way to TOTL Planars. There are a few distinct differences and pros/cons, but it just mainly comes down to preference.

 

[BTD1]

I appreciate your comment that stats are not magically superior to a TOTL planar. Now, I get it. There was no way to audition the CRBN so based on the sometimes over the top comments out there I took the plunge. When I add up the cost of the energizer/amp and the CRBN itself, the Susvara seems fairly priced what for what it delivers. I had to find out for myself what e-stats were all about. Now, I get it. I'm sure as I get used to them my opinion will soften, but compared to the Susvara or the Solitaire P, I don't see these being that special. I was more impressed with the Elites out of the box than the CRBN. You listen and you learn I guess.