[GrussGott]

I think it means he won't be posting them here. He is considered a MOT, so certain HF rules now apply. I didn't get a chance to see the whole video, because Aornic talks too much, but I think he will still be doing YouTube vids.

The video is to ask viewers if he should review anything at all anymore given he has a stake in the industry.

My 2 cents is not only should he continue, but he should also review ZMF rather than "ghost" them, which he can ethically do as long as he discloses his interest.

 

[Aornic]

Currently I'm leaning on continuing reviewing on my private blog and YouTube but disclosing the ZMF affiliation whenever I tackle another full-sized headphone. I can't review ZMF anymore, however, as it just doesn't seem right to me. There's also another brand or two that I will avoid talking about in the future due to connections to ZMF.

That being said, I have started another YouTube channel purely for marketing purposes that I might make use of for ZMF stuff.

As a MOT, you won't find my impressions on Head-fi anymore, as per the rules.

 

[commtrd]

What is a GOTL?

 

[whirlwind]

What is a GOTL?

People refer to 2359glenn studio OTL amp as GOTL

 

[ProfFalkin]

Currently I'm leaning on continuing reviewing on my private blog and YouTube but disclosing the ZMF affiliation whenever I tackle another full-sized headphone. I can't review ZMF anymore, however, as it just doesn't seem right to me. There's also another brand or two that I will avoid talking about in the future due to connections to ZMF.

That being said, I have started another YouTube channel purely for marketing purposes that I might make use of for ZMF stuff.

As a MOT, you won't find my impressions on Head-fi anymore, as per the rules.

I think that's fine. Disclosure is all we really need.

 

[Monsterzero]

What is a GOTL?

Something you should buy if you want a kickass tube amp

 

[GrussGott]

I can't review ZMF anymore, however, as it just doesn't seem right to me.

Up to you @Aornic but it's more dishonest to publicly ignore a product you believe in so much you sell it!

I have a hard time understanding how that ethically makes sense to you ... and it's why financial firms include "reviews" of products they sell or have holdings in with a disclosure.

This is hardly a new or unique problem and is already solved globally with disclosure - I think your desire to deviate from an accepted norm raises more questions that it solves.

you're getting bad advice.

If you're pretending ZMF doesn't exist, what else are you pretending on? That's why disclosure exists and "ghosting" is unethical: Basically you're trying to justify a lie of omission.

 

[Stillhart]

Up to you @Aornic but it's more dishonest to publicly ignore a product you believe in so much you sell it!

I have a hard time understanding how that ethically makes sense to you ... and it's why financial firms include "reviews" of products they sell or have holdings in with a disclosure.

This is hardly a new or unique problem and is already solved globally with disclosure - I think your desire to deviate from an accepted norm raises more questions that it solves.

you're getting bad advice.

If you're pretending ZMF doesn't exist, what else are you pretending on? That's why disclosure exists and "ghosting" is unethical: Basically you're trying to justify a lie of omission.

Are you suggesting that he needs to review all or nothing, but reviewing only some things is unethical? If so, I might agree with the sentiment in general.

But I certainly don't agree with the way you've phrased it as an attack on his ethics. It's very clearly that his intention is to remain as ethical as possible so calling him a liar seems pretty out of bounds. Not cool, dude.

 

[GrussGott]

Are you suggesting that he needs to review all or nothing, but reviewing only some things is unethical?

If one attempts to avoid ethical conflict by HIDING the conflict via omission, that in and of itself is unethical. (he may not be purposely "hiding" but how do we know? )

Again, this isn't some new unique problem: it was solved in many industries, notably investing, decades ago and the solution is disclosure and there's a reason: it's most forthcoming; one always provides complete and accurate information.

Further, my comment can't be an attack on him because he's not doing any of it yet, he's asking, so chill the feck out. It's all cool dude. At the end of the day, a lie of omission is a lie, so I'm advising he not do that by "ghosting" ZMF. That's fundamentally a lie.

Thus I'm suggesting he change nothing with his reviews and simply disclose his interest as that's the global business standard.

 

[Sonic Defender]

No, a lie of omission isn't necessarily the same thing as a lie. Describe the actual harm, not theoretical harm to a consumer if he doesn't review the ZMF line. I fail to see how not talking about something is harmful when there is plenty of information available to the consumer elsewhere. Nobody is compelled to review anything, even if they sell it. It is up to the consumer to undertake due diligence and somebody not saying something should have zero impact on the decision of a potential consumer as there are plenty of data points. If he was reviewing the ZMF products, even with a disclaimer, that still provides an opportunity to perhaps unfairly influence a buying decision. Silence in the face of persecution such as genocide, yes that is morally repugnant, silence about an audio product in world full of information on that product, less so. I may have misunderstood something so my apology if I have done so and missed a moral connection somewhere.

 

[Stillhart]

If one attempts to avoid ethical conflict by HIDING the conflict via omission, that in and of itself is unethical. (he may not be purposely "hiding" but how do we know? )

Again, this isn't some new unique problem: it was solved in many industries, notably investing, decades ago and the solution is disclosure and there's a reason: it's most forthcoming; one always provides complete and accurate information.

Further, my comment can't be an attack on him because he's not doing any of it yet, he's asking, so chill the feck out. It's all cool dude. At the end of the day, a lie of omission is a lie, so I'm advising he not do that by "ghosting" ZMF. That's fundamentally a lie.

Thus I'm suggesting he change nothing with his reviews and simply disclose his interest as that's the global business standard.

I guess I fail to understand how you think that he's hiding anything. He's literally telling everyone that he works with ZMF and asking our thoughts on how to handle it. The fact that we're even discussing it at all means he's not hiding anything and therefore can't be accused of lying.

As to it being a solved problem in another industry, I'm glad you think it's fine but I certainly don't think it is. If someone has financial motivation to convince you to buy something, how can you possibly take any positive review from them seriously? And if nobody is going to take those reviews seriously, why bother wasting time on them? It seems to me to be a very straighforward proposition: don't review ZMF Headphones if you sell them for profit.

I think the only actual question here is whether he should be reviewing ANY headphones. One could very easily use the same logic above to argue against it. To wit: if he's financially motivated to get you not to buy other brands, how can we take any of his negative feedback seriously? And if we're not taking it seriously, why waste the time and effort? At best, it's a waste of time. At worst, he'll be attacked for it.

And trust me, people attack reviewers all the time if they even THINK they're financially motivated to be biased. If they KNOW they are... well I wouldn't want to put myself in that situation.

 

[koover]

To change the mood and lighten this up a bit...….

Well, Mr. UPS man rang my bell about an hour ago and walla, my Padauk Atticus has arrived. In only an hour of head-time, I believe I'm ruined. I have way too many headphones that will now be sitting on their stands collecting dust. I have been looking for a particular sound signature for quite some time, going through headphone after headphone and these have finally hit that mark. Zach, you truly are a master craftsman. I'm quite sure there are better headphones out there that are more detailed, dynamic, resolving, etc., but for me?....these are it.

These hit my sweet spot with it's laid back yet dynamic, smooth and detailed sound, with slamming bass that will only get better with the different tubes I'll be rolling in my MJ2 with Gumby. There is absolutely no sibilance. The cymbals sound absolutely spot on, especially the splash where most times they sound too digital and just?....off. This is one of my biggest complaints with the overall sound of any headphone. So far these are approaching realism in the cymbals. The mids are what's very striking to me right off the bat. They are positioned perfectly right in the middle. Granted, I've only been listening just over an hour (well going on 2 hours now as I stop typing just to listen) and have only listened to progressive metal, instrumental metal along with some Djent sprinkled in for good measure. Very nice and detailed with so much body and meat to them. I pretty much knew what I was going to get with the bass from when I had these on loan when they first came out. But that's with completely different gear and under different circumstances.

So far, the synergy with my gear makes these babies sing like a bird. No burning in needed as I got these off of @grizzlybeast, via Zach for some work he did on them before I received them. Great work on these Zach. I'm loving it, rediscovering some of the music I've been listening to for years. And I just got started an hour+ ago! I know this could be new toy syndrome, but I truly doubt it.

 

[koover]

I guess I fail to understand how you think that he's hiding anything. He's literally telling everyone that he works with ZMF and asking our thoughts on how to handle it. The fact that we're even discussing it at all means he's not hiding anything and therefore can't be accused of lying.

As to it being a solved problem in another industry, I'm glad you think it's fine but I certainly don't think it is. If someone has financial motivation to convince you to buy something, how can you possibly take any positive review from them seriously? And if nobody is going to take those reviews seriously, why bother wasting time on them? It seems to me to be a very straighforward proposition: don't review ZMF Headphones if you sell them for profit.

I think the only actual question here is whether he should be reviewing ANY headphones. One could very easily use the same logic above to argue against it. To wit: if he's financially motivated to get you not to buy other brands, how can we take any of his negative feedback seriously? And if we're not taking it seriously, why waste the time and effort? At best, it's a waste of time. At worst, he'll be attacked for it.

And trust me, people attack reviewers all the time if they even THINK they're financially motivated to be biased. If they KNOW they are... well I wouldn't want to put myself in that situation.

It's just a really tough situation for @Aornic. Reaching out to the community IMO is noble and righteous. He didn't need to do that and is simply trying to get fellow Headfi members takes on what he should do...even though I believe he's already made that decision. I'd hate to be in his shoes just for the fact he obviously loves what he does, many people listen to what he says and purchases a particular product based off his recommendation, etc. But once you have a financial gain when your livelihood is based off a particular product while reviewing competing products, that becomes a conflict of interest.

This was supposed to be posted before the one above. LOL

 

[GrussGott]

I guess I fail to understand how you think that he's hiding anything. He's literally telling everyone that he works with ZMF and asking our thoughts on how to handle it. The fact that we're even discussing it at all means he's not hiding anything and therefore can't be accused of lying.

Right now WE all see and hear him asking, but if he "ghosts" ZMF, especially after having previously reviewed them, in a year+ with nary a mention of ZMF, if he then reviews a few headphones, doesn't compare them to ZMF, and someone easily figures out he's a ZMF distributor, they may rightly wonder why he never mentions a product he sells. Further they conclude bad intentions, that he's HIDING that fact. Then they wonder: if he's hiding his relationship here, what else is he hiding?

Further, even by disclosing he's NOT comparing or reviewing ZMF he risks an obvious question: "why not? Because they suck? Because he doesn't believe in something he sells? What's ethical about hiding it? He must have some other agenda ...." confusion, uncertainty, doubt.

So by "ghosting" he creates a situation where we never know what his interests are because he specifically has a policy of omitting them: "Gee, did I miss the video or post where he told me about it?"

Again, this is why people use disclosure: it ensures there's never ambiguity of interests. Change of behavior always risks implying otherwise.

Further, the only reason we're discussing this is because he's asking if he should use an ethical standard OTHER THAN the normal business ethical standard: disclosure.

Simple: change nothing, review what you want, compare to whatever you want, BUT DISCLOSE.

 

[Aornic]

Stillhart's above post is right. I have a business to run and enough on my plate in my private life that I really don't want the added perception problem that comes with reviewing rival products. So I've made a decision that I'm announcing on YouTube soon.

I'm going to retire from reviewing full-sized, currently-sold headphones that manufacturers still have a stake in. Sorry for the careful wording, but I feel like I can still discuss vintage or long-discontinued gear someday if I find something interesting.

Also, sorry to anyone else who is just here to read up on Eikon and Atticus - I feel like I've unintentionally hijacked this thread and I hope this will make stuff return to normal.