[The_Blood_Raven]

Thanks Zach
I think overall I probably will prefer the Sound of Eikon. I am no means of audiophile or hi-fier, but I like my hd800's (not hd800s) treble presence and the soundstage and imaging
I listen to a lot of female jpop, and sometimes classical.  Occasionally with some dance music and trans, but again female centric.

So, reading all the forums and info, it looks like between Eikon and Atticus, Atticus have more forward mids than Eikon, but Eikon has more treble presence.  And I am no bass head either, so maybe Eikon will suit me well.

As you mentioned, it seems, the differences are very subtle unless doing a hard a/b comparison.  Maybe I shouldn't really worry about which wood to go with except the color and looks

I highly doubt the Eikon, or any ZMF headphone, will have HD800 like treble presence. Zach tunes around linear, but very smooth sounding treble. I'd say his treble preferences are a bit more forward than the HD650, but not by a lot. Definitely more smooth than the HD800's aggressive treble.

The Eikon should be an excellent compliment to the HD800, in my opinion. Smoother, much more intimate in soundstage, a bit more warm, but still fast and clean. Seems like a perfect duo to me.

Now, that comes the question, if aged Padauk will actually turned dark brown? or will it stay reddish... or actually cheery wood becomes tan overtime.

That's an interesting question that I had not even thought of.

 

[Viqor]

 
Now, that comes the question, if aged Padauk will actually turned dark brown? or will it stay reddish... or actually cheery wood becomes tan overtime.

I don't know about the Padauk, but Zach uploaded a picture of an aged Cherry Omni somewhere on this thread so you can get an idea of how Cherry will change over time.
 
Edit: I found it!  it's on page 19, post #271.

 

[cglin222]

  I don't know about the Padauk, but Zach uploaded a picture of an aged Cherry Omni somewhere on this thread so you can get an idea of how Cherry will change over time.
 
Edit: I found it!  it's on page 19, post #271.

That doesn't looked so bad...  I searched aged padauk wood or aged cherry wood on google, it looks about right...
And ya, aged padauk looks .. eh.. dark brown!?
 
http://www.woodworkerssource.com/blog/woodworking-101/tips-tricks/how-to-finish-african-padauk-wood-to-preserve-the-color/

 

[cglin222]

If aged Padauk will be even darker then I guess I would actually prefer aged cherry, for the golden, amber yellow 

 

[zach915m]

  I don't know about the Padauk, but Zach uploaded a picture of an aged Cherry Omni somewhere on this thread so you can get an idea of how Cherry will change over time.
 
Edit: I found it!  it's on page 19, post #271.

 
I don't have it here because I made it for my father, otherwise I'd photo it, but he has a set of 2.5 year old Vibro's (MK I) I made him in Padauk and they basically darkened to a more blood red color from the brighter orange/red when they are just completed.   Maybe in a few more years they will darken or become more brownish, not sure.

 

[The_Blood_Raven]

I don't have it here because I made it for my father, otherwise I'd photo it, but he has a set of 2.5 year old Vibro's (MK I) I made him in Padauk and they basically darkened to a more blood red color from the brighter orange/red when they are just completed.   Maybe in a few more years they will darken or become more brownish, not sure.

Metal

 

[GCTD]

Yeah, I do find this to be true, the more I listen the more I can pick out minute differences, but it's not as immediate as with the t50 drivers. More subtle changes that are apparent, but only if really comparing back and forth. It's real hard core a/b stuff which is why at the end of the day I think the aesthetic look does over-ride the sonic difference.

Only thing I would add to that reddit post is that between the two woods, the mids on Padauk are just a hair less lush, more leading edge, again subtle, not a huge difference, just a minor difference in attack.

If that is true, would it make sense to also have a cup made of synthetic material such as a thick plastic to save material cost, wood is probably expensive as **** especially if your choosing fancy types. The Alpha Prime for example is a thick 3d printed layer of plastic. You can probably go a molding route instead so we can get a cheaper version of the Eikon or Atticus.

 

[zach915m]

If that is true, would it make sense to also have a cup made of synthetic material such as a thick plastic to save material cost, wood is probably expensive as **** especially if your choosing fancy types. The Alpha Prime for example is a thick 3d printed layer of plastic. You can probably go a molding route instead so we can get a cheaper version of the Eikon or Atticus.

Sorry about that, I don't want lead anyone to think that these sound the same as a plastic headphone. As they just don't.

There are recognizable differences between Woods, that are clear when A/Bing them back and forth, but most won't get to have that direct opportunity, and the frequency response of each wood is the same, so I recommend that the end owner choose the wood they like the looks of most, as the wood choice sonically will create differences that will not factor into their enjoyment of the headphone.

For example if someone bought one of these in Padauk instead of cherry, I would expect them to enjoy either wood, I've never seen a case where someone enjoyed the same zmf in one wood, and not the other.

Part of the reason I make these in wood is because it's the most organic sounding material to my ears. It just makes the headphone look and sound more unique imho. Maybe someday I'll make something out of plastic or some other material, but I gotta do what I love to do, which is make and listen to wood headphones!

Edit - also I should address that with headphones made of woods that are widely available like cherry and Padauk, the wood cost is somewhat significant, but for a small company creating moulds for every part would actually be more expensive when not making hundreds or thousands of headphones at a time or buying closets full of 3d printers. I haven't done a direct cost analysis, but I've had enough parts made to know that if these were plastic they wouldn't actually be cheaper, maybe even more expensive for small run production.

 

[GCTD]

Sorry about that, I don't want lead anyone to think that these sound the same as a plastic headphone. As they just don't.

There are recognizable differences between Woods, that are clear when A/Bing them back and forth, but most won't get to have that direct opportunity, and the frequency response of each wood is the same, so I recommend that the end owner choose the wood they like the looks of most, as the wood choice sonically will create differences that will not factor into their enjoyment of the headphone.

For example if someone bought one of these in Padauk instead of cherry, I would expect them to enjoy either wood, I've never seen a case where someone enjoyed the same zmf in one wood, and not the other.

Part of the reason I make these in wood is because it's the most organic sounding material to my ears. It just makes the headphone look and sound more unique imho. Maybe someday I'll make something out of plastic or some other material, but I gotta do what I love to do, which is make and listen to wood headphones!

Edit - also I should address that with headphones made of woods that are widely available like cherry and Padauk, the wood cost is somewhat significant, but for a small company creating moulds for every part would actually be more expensive when not making hundreds or thousands of headphones at a time or buying closets full of 3d printers. I haven't done a direct cost analysis, but I've had enough parts made to know that if these were plastic they wouldn't actually be cheaper, maybe even more expensive for small run production.

That is true, since the cost of the custom molding machine and the factory that makes it for you would have to be past down to the consumers. But I do know a lot PC nerds with their own 3d printer, so maybe they can do 3d print version of your cups instead.

 

[zach915m]

That is true, since the cost of the custom molding machine and the factory that makes it for you would have to be past down to the consumers. But I do know a lot PC nerds with their own 3d printer, so maybe they can do 3d print version of your cups instead.

 
We have a 3d printer for prototyping, we just don't use it for production as the type of 3d printers that make production quality parts cost a lot of $$$ and then you have to prep the plastic for finishing properly and by that time your looking at more labor cost than with wood parts which = more cost to end user.  The more I think about it, 3d printed headphones and wood headphones, the final cost to the buyer probably would end up somewhere in the same area, then it's just the end users decision, do I want a plastic 3d printed headphone or a wood headphone.

 

[GCTD]

We have a 3d printer for prototyping, we just don't use it for production as the type of 3d printers that make production quality parts cost a lot of $$$ and then you have to prep the plastic for finishing properly and by that time your looking at more labor cost than with wood parts which = more cost to end user.  The more I think about it, 3d printed headphones and wood headphones, the final cost to the buyer probably would end up somewhere in the same area, then it's just the end users decision, do I want a plastic 3d printed headphone or a wood headphone.

So how did the 3d printed cup versions of your Vibro, Omni, and Atticus/Eikon sound? More clinical? Boring? Classified?

 

[zach915m]

 

So how did the 3d printed cup versions of your Vibro, Omni, and Atticus/Eikon sound? More clinical? Boring? Classified?

 
I haven't tried it!
 
I just don't have as much of an interest in making plastic headphone products (sorry if that wasn't clear!),I love wood, I love the smell of it when I work with it and how it looks when finished, it makes me more excited every day to come into the shop and get to stare at all the cups and blocks and then work with them and finish them into heirloom type wood products that can be owned for a lifetime and passed down through a family.  That's my personal fairy tale at least lol!

 

[Taggerung]

Zach, can you say what other woods are planned for the A&E? Hoping to see Blackwood, Ebony, or Wenge.

 

[wingsounds13]

I would like to see Zebrawood or Ormosa Henryi. The Coffee Zebra LTD Omni is gorgeous, I would love to see this option for the Eikon! I prefer a lighter color wood, so between Padauk and Cherry I prefer the look of Cherry but prefer (at least the idea of) the tighter and quicker sound of Padauk. Ormosa or Zebra might give the sound signature that I prefer with a look that I would like too.

J.P.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Zach, I'm curious how much stock you put in using CSD plots to assess a headphone? I'm sure they are fraught with errors, but in your experience tuning a headphone, do you find CSDs to be a useful guide, or simply too hit and miss when compared with actual listening impressions?