[Pharmaboy]

I made a XLR to 1/4" adapter for about $15.

 
Now you simply need to incorporate, get a glitzy logo, set up a website, and start relieving chumps like me of our life savings.
 
"That's Audio!"
 
Seriously--I had an ignorance epiphany earlier tonight. I'm totally confused about balanced cables vs balanced amps:
 
-- I've seen headphone cables with (what I think are) two 3-pin XLR male connectors, one each (mono?) for the L & R channel leads that connect to the headphone amps. I've also seen headphone cables with (what I think is) a single 4-pin XLR male connnector (stereo?) that connects to the HP amp (including ZMF Omni/Ori stock cables.
 
-- As for amps (I need to research this further), I've seen 2 that have a single, 4-pin XLR output on the front (Violectric 281; Yulong 18A)--each also has 2 X 3-pin XLR inputs on the back, obviously for balanced inputs from DAC, preamp, etc.
 
If one is to order "balanced headphone cables," is there a convention, a customary way in which those cables will be terminated for connection to the balanced amp?
 
I need to know because when I get an Atticus, I want balanced cables to connect to a balanced amp (possibly the Yulong); & that also can connect to SE amps using an adapter like yours (albeit fiercely more expensive, because I can't use a soldering iron and have the electrical/mechanical capabilities of a toddler).

 

[ProfFalkin]

Now you simply need to incorporate, get a glitzy logo, set up a website, and start relieving chumps like me of our life savings.

"That's Audio!"

Seriously--I had an ignorance epiphany earlier tonight. I'm totally confused about balanced cables vs balanced amps:

-- I've seen headphone cables with (what I think are) two 3-pin XLR male connectors, one each (mono?) for the L & R channel leads that connect to the headphone amps. I've also seen headphone cables with (what I think is) a single 4-pin XLR male connnector (stereo?) that connects to the HP amp (including ZMF Omni/Ori stock cables.

-- As for amps (I need to research this further), I've seen 2 that have a single, 4-pin XLR output on the front (Violectric 281; Yulong 18A)--each also has 2 X 3-pin XLR inputs on the back, obviously for balanced inputs from DAC, preamp, etc.

If one is to order "balanced headphone cables," is there a convention, a customary way in which those cables will be terminated for connection to the balanced amp?

I need to know because when I get an Atticus, I want balanced cables to connect to a balanced amp (possibly the Yulong); & that also can connect to SE amps using an adapter like yours (albeit fiercely more expensive, because I can't use a soldering iron and have the electrical/mechanical capabilities of a toddler).

OK. Super easy.

4 pin XLR is + and - for each channel. 4 wires total.

Dual 3 pin XLR is + and - for each channel, and a ground for shielding the entire cable from EMI/RFI. They use this for very long wire runs in recording studios, microphone cables, etc.

Single ended (1/4", 1/8") TRS (Tip Ring Sleeve) share a common ground wire. Tip = +Left, Ring = +Right, Sleeve = ground. The moment The left and right share a common ground, it is no longer balanced. It is also why you cannot convert 1/4" TRS to 4 pin XLR... You would short-circuit the two separate circuits dedicated to driving L and R separately by grounding them together.

Headphones like Zach's have the drivers wired separately in each cup, and each cup has their own connector for the + and - wires. Those wires can stay separate using XLR and be run in balanced mode, or at some point you can join the L and R - wires to common ground (typically done by soldering them together inside the TRS plug) for normal use. That's why I ordered my headphones with balanced connections, not because I will always be using them in balanced operation, but because I can use an adapter to go SE any time I want... But not the other way round.

 

[heliosphann]

   
Now you simply need to incorporate, get a glitzy logo, set up a website, and start relieving chumps like me of our life savings.
 
"That's Audio!"
 
Seriously--I had an ignorance epiphany earlier tonight. I'm totally confused about balanced cables vs balanced amps:
 
-- I've seen headphone cables with (what I think are) two 3-pin XLR male connectors, one each (mono?) for the L & R channel leads that connect to the headphone amps. I've also seen headphone cables with (what I think is) a single 4-pin XLR male connnector (stereo?) that connects to the HP amp (including ZMF Omni/Ori stock cables.
 
-- As for amps (I need to research this further), I've seen 2 that have a single, 4-pin XLR output on the front (Violectric 281; Yulong 18A)--each also has 2 X 3-pin XLR inputs on the back, obviously for balanced inputs from DAC, preamp, etc.
 
If one is to order "balanced headphone cables," is there a convention, a customary way in which those cables will be terminated for connection to the balanced amp?
 
I need to know because when I get an Atticus, I want balanced cables to connect to a balanced amp (possibly the Yulong); & that also can connect to SE amps using an adapter like yours (albeit fiercely more expensive, because I can't use a soldering iron and have the electrical/mechanical capabilities of a toddler).

 
Also not all amps are fully balanced. For example my Liquid Crimson has an XLR output, but not balanced inputs. 
 
And yes, balanced cables give you the most flexibility being able to use a SE adapter. Can't do that the other way around.

 

[mwhals]

REVIEW - Draug 2: https://headmania.org/2014/06/18/aftermarket-cables-for-sennheiser-hd800/

(tell me this reviewer's comments about the Draug 2 don't just scream "ATTICUS!!!")

Norne Audio has a new cable you might like called the Draug 2c.

http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/Norne-Audio-Draug-2-C-2C-Balanced-headphone-replacement-cable-Eidolic-Audeze-Hifiman-Mr-Speakers-Ether-C-Alpha-Prime-Focal-Elear-Utopia-headphone-cable-occ-litz-copper

 

[Stillhart]

   
Also not all amps are fully balanced. For example my Liquid Crimson has an XLR output, but not balanced inputs. 
 
And yes, balanced cables give you the most flexibility being able to use a SE adapter. Can't do that the other way around.

 
The XLR output on SE amps like the Crimson should be thought of like the $15 XLR->TRS adapter, just built in for convenience.

 

[heliosphann]

Norne Audio has a new cable you might like called the Draug 2c.

http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/Norne-Audio-Draug-2-C-2C-Balanced-headphone-replacement-cable-Eidolic-Audeze-Hifiman-Mr-Speakers-Ether-C-Alpha-Prime-Focal-Elear-Utopia-headphone-cable-occ-litz-copper

That's a very nice cable. I have the 2C for my HD800.

 

[mysticstryk]

Pretty sure Schiit made it very clear there is nothing in the Jot that's user serviceable, including phono/dac upgrades.  =(   Which, if you think about shipping costs and the upgrade price of $150... 

Oh, sure. I agree, just didn't want people cracking open their Jots.

Just like some of their upgrades for some of the DACs, you can upgrade the modules yourself. It's stated right on their webpage.

 

[ProfFalkin]

Just like some of their upgrades for some of the DACs, you can upgrade the modules yourself. It's stated right on their webpage.

I looked at their site, and did find this:

Please note that by selecting this option, you are saying, "Yes, I am, or know, a competent electronics technician who does not need hand-holding for this installation, and I will not allow an inexperienced person to perform the upgrade, since I understand there are no user-serviceable parts inside."

So... I'd still recommend people not. Unless they are competent electronics techs. Hehehe

 

[Pharmaboy]

Norne Audio has a new cable you might like called the Draug 2c.

http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/Norne-Audio-Draug-2-C-2C-Balanced-headphone-replacement-cable-Eidolic-Audeze-Hifiman-Mr-Speakers-Ether-C-Alpha-Prime-Focal-Elear-Utopia-headphone-cable-occ-litz-copper

 
Wow. I was all over that site last night but didn't see this. Thanks!
 
Just stumbled over a rather large H-F thread devoted to Norne cables. Now I'll just read that entire string, obsessing over cables for a new headphone (Atticus) I probably won't even buy for 6-7 months (thank god I don't have a life...).

 

[Pharmaboy]

   
The XLR output on SE amps like the Crimson should be thought of like the $15 XLR->TRS adapter, just built in for convenience.

 
(something I don't often say re electronics) Your post makes perfect sense to me.
 
In fact, I've seen 2 flavors of this "not-balanced, but have an XLR connector) phenom in various HP amps:
 
1 - The amp doesn't do anything differently to the signal that goes to the SE vs 4-pin XLR connector. It's truly a single-ended amp all the way, albeit one that offer the XLR convenience adapter, as you describe; or
 
2 - The amp is a "quasi" balanced design, using phase splitters or some equivalent technology to provide a quasi-balanced output for the XLR jack vs the SE jack.
 
(I've read the usual voluminous/conflicting comments re sound of quasi-balanced vs true balanced)
 
The Yulong A18 I'm interested in has the 2nd flavor--as well as XLR (mono L & R) input jacks on back.

 

[Pharmaboy]

OK. Super easy.

4 pin XLR is + and - for each channel. 4 wires total.

Dual 3 pin XLR is + and - for each channel, and a ground for shielding the entire cable from EMI/RFI. They use this for very long wire runs in recording studios, microphone cables, etc.

Single ended (1/4", 1/8") TRS (Tip Ring Sleeve) share a common ground wire. Tip = +Left, Ring = +Right, Sleeve = ground. The moment The left and right share a common ground, it is no longer balanced. It is also why you cannot convert 1/4" TRS to 4 pin XLR... You would short-circuit the two separate circuits dedicated to driving L and R separately by grounding them together.

Headphones like Zach's have the drivers wired separately in each cup, and each cup has their own connector for the + and - wires. Those wires can stay separate using XLR and be run in balanced mode, or at some point you can join the L and R - wires to common ground (typically done by soldering them together inside the TRS plug) for normal use. That's why I ordered my headphones with balanced connections, not because I will always be using them in balanced operation, but because I can use an adapter to go SE any time I want... But not the other way round.

 
THANKS to you & @heliospann for explaining this stuff so well!
 
One point of clarification re your 2nd paragraph ("It is also why you cannot convert 1/4" TRS to 4 pin XLR"): does this apply to the output of the HP amp? In other words, where the conversion sequence is 4-pin XLR to TRS? I ask because I've seen adapters that appear to allow this--not a unibody metal type adapter, but one w/a short length of audio cable. For example:
 
https://www.amazon.com/Silver-Plated-Balanced-Headphone-Adapter/dp/B00X2OUO7U/ref=sr_1_39?ie=UTF8&qid=1483207475&sr=8-39&keywords=female+TRS+to+4-pin+male+XLR
 
(or is this just a fancy way to blow up a balanced HP amp?)
                    

 

[ProfFalkin]

THANKS to you & @heliospann for explaining this stuff so well!

One point of clarification re your 2nd paragraph ("It is also why you cannot convert 1/4" TRS to 4 pin XLR"): does this apply to the output of the HP amp? In other words, where the conversion sequence is 4-pin XLR to TRS? I ask because I've seen adapters that appear to allow this--not a unibody metal type adapter, but one w/a short length of audio cable. For example:

https://www.amazon.com/Silver-Plated-Balanced-Headphone-Adapter/dp/B00X2OUO7U/ref=sr_1_39?ie=UTF8&qid=1483207475&sr=8-39&keywords=female+TRS+to+4-pin+male+XLR

(or is this just a fancy way to blow up a balanced HP amp?)
                    

Like heliosphann said, some amps are SE regardless of the plugs they have. On those amps I don't think it would hurt anything. If you mentally trace the ground path, the ground for each channel is in joined to a common ground inside the amp, so splitting then separating then rejoining the ground in the headphone cable isn't going to hurt. The electricity will just take the path of least resistance to ground.

But for truly balanced amps I expect that adaptor would do bad and naughty things.

Edit: You could test it. Get that adaptor and plug it into the XLR connection of a Mjolnir 2, see what happens. Hehehe Don't forget to crank the volume first.

 

[Stillhart]

   
(something I don't often say re electronics) Your post makes perfect sense to me.
 
In fact, I've seen 2 flavors of this "not-balanced, but have an XLR connector) phenom in various HP amps:
 
1 - The amp doesn't do anything differently to the signal that goes to the SE vs 4-pin XLR connector. It's truly a single-ended amp all the way, albeit one that offer the XLR convenience adapter, as you describe; or
 
2 - The amp is a "quasi" balanced design, using phase splitters or some equivalent technology to provide a quasi-balanced output for the XLR jack vs the SE jack.
 
(I've read the usual voluminous/conflicting comments re sound of quasi-balanced vs true balanced)
 
The Yulong A18 I'm interested in has the 2nd flavor--as well as XLR (mono L & R) input jacks on back.

 
#2 is going to be one of those things that engineers like to argue over.  Whether an amp is "truly balanced" or "just bridged" or some other crap.  IMHO, the engineers can argue over it all they want; all I care about is how it sounds at the end of the day.
 
Also, phase splitters convert a SE signal to balanced before amping so that SE inputs get the full effect of the balanced amp.  That's not "fully balanced" in that it's a SE source into a balanced amp.  But it is "fully balanced" in that the signal being amplified is always a balanced signal.
 

   
THANKS to you & @heliospann for explaining this stuff so well!
 
One point of clarification re your 2nd paragraph ("It is also why you cannot convert 1/4" TRS to 4 pin XLR"): does this apply to the output of the HP amp? In other words, where the conversion sequence is 4-pin XLR to TRS? I ask because I've seen adapters that appear to allow this--not a unibody metal type adapter, but one w/a short length of audio cable. For example:
 
https://www.amazon.com/Silver-Plated-Balanced-Headphone-Adapter/dp/B00X2OUO7U/ref=sr_1_39?ie=UTF8&qid=1483207475&sr=8-39&keywords=female+TRS+to+4-pin+male+XLR
 
(or is this just a fancy way to blow up a balanced HP amp?)
                    

 
If you plug a SE headphone into a balanced amp, you can destroy your amp.  SE headphones use a single wire for ground on both channels.  Balanced amps use separate wires for ground on each channel.  If you bridge those wires together (so that you only have a single ground for your SE headphones) you're creating a short circuit.  If you split a ground into two for your balanced headphones, it doesn't hurt anything.
 
EDIT - Just looked at that link.  That thing will kill a lot of amps from people not knowing what they're doing.  The only situation I can think of where you might want that is if you're using a SE amp and need another TRS jack instead of the balanced jack.  You have to be sure it's a real SE amp though.

 

[Pharmaboy]

   
#2 is going to be one of those things that engineers like to argue over.  Whether an amp is "truly balanced" or "just bridged" or some other crap.  IMHO, the engineers can argue over it all they want; all I care about is how it sounds at the end of the day.
 
Also, phase splitters convert a SE signal to balanced before amping so that SE inputs get the full effect of the balanced amp.  That's not "fully balanced" in that it's a SE source into a balanced amp.  But it is "fully balanced" in that the signal being amplified is always a balanced signal.
 
 
If you plug a SE headphone into a balanced amp, you can destroy your amp.  SE headphones use a single wire for ground on both channels.  Balanced amps use separate wires for ground on each channel.  If you bridge those wires together (so that you only have a single ground for your SE headphones) you're creating a short circuit.  If you split a ground into two for your balanced headphones, it doesn't hurt anything.
 
EDIT - Just looked at that link.  That thing will kill a lot of amps from people not knowing what they're doing.  The only situation I can think of where you might want that is if you're using a SE amp and need another TRS jack instead of the balanced jack.  You have to be sure it's a real SE amp though.

 
Wow. Again, thanks to you and @ProfFalkin for setting me straight (I'm getting a free education here). Will avoid these TRS/XLR converters w/quasi- or true-balanced amps.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Like @heliosphann said, some amps are SE regardless of the plugs they have. On those amps I don't think it would hurt anything. If you mentally trace the ground path, the ground for each channel is in joined to a common ground inside the amp, so splitting then separating then rejoining the ground in the headphone cable isn't going to hurt. The electricity will just take the path of least resistance to ground.

But for truly balanced amps I expect that adaptor would do bad and naughty things.

Edit: You could test it. Get that adaptor and plug it into the XLR connection of a Mjolnir 2, see what happens. Hehehe Don't forget to crank the volume first.

 
I will test it as you suggest. First I'll get the most expensive balanced amp out there (possibly by selling a car...I won't be able to drive after this anyway). Then I'll stand in puddle of water while connecting a TRS headphone jack to the balanced amp using my handy new adapter.
 
My estate will take it from there...