[szore]

My kids used to tell me incessantly what they want for Christmas and I always tell them wanting is better than having However and believe me it is opposite when it comes to SP2K, no matter how many times you demo it it is never equal to owning it, it’s kind of like with the gal that you like—owning her is always better than dating her even though it will cost more. That is because in a demo situation you are never relaxed enough to enjoy the music, or listen enough to know how it sounds with different types of music, you are never able to listen to your library fully to know how good it is. In time past we used to own a piece of equipment for a few months prior to rendering an impression because it will give us that intimate knowledge of what it can do. If you’ve been demoing the SP2K twice a month, it’s time to admit that you want it and there is no use to fight.

I haven't demoed it yet, but I'm constantly reading about it. I plan on getting a custom LegX by spring and I can't help but wonder how it would pair with a sp2000, and a top 8 wire cable...

 

[Whitigir]

I wouldn't call it placebo, I think it's more an issue if anticipation. I've listened to many expensive, high end gear that I thought sounded like crap, placebo wasn't an issue. I think the perception changes too. So many times I've upgraded, and been satisfied for several months. But then your standards start to change, your ear and discernment improves, and suddenly that %5 becomes meaningful. Ironically, in a way, once I dove into audiophile portable gear, the emphasis started turning away from the music and more to the technology, and chasing that next 5 or 10% became more of a distraction. I've been trying to focus back on the music instead of obsessing over cables ear tips and my tweeters specifications.... I've been asking myself lately, where does it end?

I agree with this. It all come down to satisfactions. What is the meaning to life or to any hobby....if you keep chasing the rabbit hole ?

 

[efejoao]

Well you have a very good combo even though they are dated by about 5 (AK 320) to 10 years (JH 16) but still your combo should give you much satisfaction. My last AK players before SP2K were the AK380 Cu and 240ss. Technology has evolved quite a bit from AK380/320 period in terms of DAC, amp, circuitry design, memory, true balance output, software etc. The SP2K, when compares to your AK320, is the most musical, textural, and resolved dap from AK to date due to the AKM 4499esq dac and independent circuit design. It sounds very authoritative because of the 6 Vrms output even though your JH 16 Pro may not need that much power but you should still notice a difference. Iems technology has also changed quite a bit from the JH16Pro period. I know because I have the JH3Pro (V1 upgraded to V2). Personally I think today’s totl iems can bring you into the music better and easier. Together today’s totl dap and iems when compare to your combo is like walking from the recording room into the presence of where the artist is performing, there is at least two to three Level of veils removed. Don’t get me wrong, you have a very good combo and if you are satisfied with it, considered yourself lucky and more power to you but just know that there are more to be had if you want more than what you have. After the AK380Cu, I went to Sony WM1Z and it is a very musical dap and warm dap in its early incarnations (firmware). I skipped SP1K because I find it too clinical for my tastes, but the musical feel in the AKM 4499 bought me back. To me and if you like the sound character of very clean, highly resolve, accurate tonality, real life like timber, dynamic and authoritative sound, the SP2K is the best out there.

When one is treading in totl territory, they should give you a sense of end game feel even though we all know they don’t exist but one should feel that way for at least a couple of years and that is what you spend your money on to feel that way. I know these things are expensive but businesses like AK, Sony, Lotto, Cayin, or Ibasso etc literally spend millions to improve sound enjoyment from one generation to the next just to give us that enjoyment in a tiny device so we can have the best music wherever we are and whenever our mood dictates is priceless. What you have is better than 99% of the stuff out there, so there is no shame in using it or need to upgrade unless you want to, the power to choose is within you.

Oh my god, Jalo! Thank you very much. You don't know how much I appreciate your time and attention dedicated to my question. You brought so much to the table that I can't event think how to thank you. This is a great late Christmas gift to me.

I have owned a JH16 Pros for 7 years now and the AK 320 for 3 years and they are absolutely the best I have heard as I mentioned to you. I have been recently on a search for something that could beat them but I haven't been too successful.

I am okay spending the money if there is really a very "night and day difference" which it was from a UE Triple-fi to a JH16 Pro and on the DAP side from a Fiiio X5 to an AK 320. Spent the hell out of my money but it was with it every single penny.

Now I am looking for a better experience than what I have. I just love the excitement, clarity and detail of my combo. Sometimes it can be a bit fatiguing to relax but they bring me a feeling that no other combo has brought to date. The sounds is so clear, very separated, and well rounded /balanced.

So, with that in mind, I don't know where I should start the change, from the DAP side or the IEM side. I am currently very skeptical and I have been reading a lot about 64 Audio and some other brands with new technologies. I have heard the JH Layla's at JH office in Orlando and, yes they sounded about 20% better than my JH16 Pros with a similar tonality which I love and I am thinking about getting them. However, while reading I have found so many other brands and people claiming different magical things that I question my knowledge and experience of what is best. I know that sound is a very personal matter and taste but still, I don't have the money to try a lot.

I have been recently listening to some Campfires (Andromeda and Solaris) and comparing to the JH16 and I was not sold on them. Andromeda brought a lot of clarity on the mid low end, heard things I didn't hear with the JH16 but it lacked bass and lacked musicality. The Solaris had bass but is not very balanced / resolved and while trying these I questioned what people had told about them because the JH16 were still the best sounding. I wonder if any of the 64 Audio ones (12 l 18 etc) are better than the Layla. I am thinking of driving to Portland to try them even though it is a 6 hour drive from Vancouver BC.

On the AK 320, I love them beside the UI and the lack of upgrades from AK. I don't have any other equipment (AMP/DAC) and am indeed looking for a all in one solution that would beat it by far (again, night and day) I may give the SP1000 and 2000 a try at the shop tomorrow if I can but I am not sure if they are going to deliver a way better experience with a dated IEM (JH16).

Another thing I have heard is about IEM cables. One guy from a shop told me that changing the stock cables with a Silver Dragon one to use the balanced output from my AK320 would make a great difference in separation. How much of an improvement would it be for $200? Would I be better off just using this money to upgrade the equipment as a whole? I don't know what to do, but again, I will very much appreciate your opinion as you have heard more than I did and know the gear I currently own and how it sounds.

Thank you very VERY much again for your time and attention. You brought a smile to my face this morning like a kid with a gift on Christmas.



Regarding the AK

Well you have a very good combo even though they are dated by about 5 (AK 320) to 10 years (JH 16) but still your combo should give you much satisfaction. My last AK players before SP2K were the AK380 Cu and 240ss. Technology has evolved quite a bit from AK380/320 period in terms of DAC, amp, circuitry design, memory, true balance output, software etc. The SP2K, when compares to your AK320, is the most musical, textural, and resolved dap from AK to date due to the AKM 4499esq dac and independent circuit design. It sounds very authoritative because of the 6 Vrms output even though your JH 16 Pro may not need that much power but you should still notice a difference. Iems technology has also changed quite a bit from the JH16Pro period. I know because I have the JH3Pro (V1 upgraded to V2). Personally I think today’s totl iems can bring you into the music better and easier. Together today’s totl dap and iems when compare to your combo is like walking from the recording room into the presence of where the artist is performing, there is at least two to three Level of veils removed. Don’t get me wrong, you have a very good combo and if you are satisfied with it, considered yourself lucky and more power to you but just know that there are more to be had if you want more than what you have. After the AK380Cu, I went to Sony WM1Z and it is a very musical dap and warm dap in its early incarnations (firmware). I skipped SP1K because I find it too clinical for my tastes, but the musical feel in the AKM 4499 bought me back. To me and if you like the sound character of very clean, highly resolve, accurate tonality, real life like timber, dynamic and authoritative sound, the SP2K is the best out there.

When one is treading in totl territory, they should give you a sense of end game feel even though we all know they don’t exist but one should feel that way for at least a couple of years and that is what you spend your money on to feel that way. I know these things are expensive but businesses like AK, Sony, Lotto, Cayin, or Ibasso etc literally spend millions to improve sound enjoyment from one generation to the next just to give us that enjoyment in a tiny device so we can have the best music wherever we are and whenever our mood dictates is priceless. What you have is better than 99% of the stuff out there, so there is no shame in using it or need to upgrade unless you want to, the power to choose is within you.

 

[Jalo]

I wouldn't call it placebo, I think it's more an issue if anticipation. I've listened to many expensive, high end gear that I thought sounded like crap, placebo wasn't an issue. I think the perception changes too. So many times I've upgraded, and been satisfied for several months. But then your standards start to change, your ear and discernment improves, and suddenly that %5 becomes meaningful. Ironically, in a way, once I dove into audiophile portable gear, the emphasis started turning away from the music and more to the technology, and chasing that next 5 or 10% became more of a distraction. I've been trying to focus back on the music instead of obsessing over cables ear tips and my tweeters specifications.... I've been asking myself lately, where does it end?

I appreciate the thoughts of high end does not always meant good, case in point, a few weeks ago I auditioned the King Arthur iems by Empire Ears. It is a near $6K iems and if I don’t know about the price, I wouldn’t pay a thousand dollars for them. With regard to chasing technology, it is true that if ones goal is to enjoy music, one can just go to any today’s upper line/models from AK, Sony, or any brand name and pick any mid range device and they will do the job and be done with. In fact one can argue there is really no reason to be here in the forum. The level of musicality of today mid fi sound is better than the totl stuffs of just ten years ago. I can still remember only ten years ago I had a four stack system tie together by several rubber bands driving my JH13Pro. And today I only need a SP2K driving my Erlkonig or my JVC Fw10K and their sound is better than some of the desk top systems of just a few years ago.

I do find chasing technology in the portable arena extremely fun and exciting. Think about the computer power of today’s iPad is many times of the computer power that was in the Apollo that landed human on the moon. Think about the SP2K with the size of slightly larger than a pack of cigarettes, you have two of the latest dedicated AKM DAC that companies use them in dedicated desk top DAC processor, a Octa CPU that is faster than most desktop computers of just a few years ago, with top memory of 1.5 TB allowing me to carry over 30000 songs with me. An amplifier capable of driving the HD800, and with a signal to noise ratio of 124 allowing me to listen to the most sensitive iems in complete silence. We are capable to jam 36 BA drivers into a pair of iems. We can put DD, BA, Planner, E-Stat, and evening ribbon technology into a pair of iems. Dion, Carey, Michael Jackson, Beethoven or who ever feed your mood can be summoned at a moment of notice to perform personally for you and almost to real life level. Companies like Sony or AK spends millions and countless hours in research to develop technology so I can hear real life music. Yes I am fascinated by technology that is why I want to know every little tiny details down to whether SP2K sounds better with or without the case on. Knowing or chasing technology does not divert me from enjoying my music, in fact that knowledge enhance my appreciation and allows me to enjoy my music that much more. I consider that portable technology like SP2K an atomizer that can literally place me in a Carnegie Hall or a cathedral even though I am 38000 feet above the ground. I love technology and I think paying a thousand or two to ride the wave of the best mind human has to offer every two three years is a blessing.

 

[Jalo]

@efejoao, a wise man once said greed is the ultimate vice. You are happy with what you’ve got and now you want more, huh? That is alright and that is why we are all in here encouraging each other to buy, buy and buy. If you don’t buy where would we get our stuffs from the for sale forum, right? But you are so innocent and I will feel guilty to tell you to buy this or that. On a serious note, if you are happy with what you have, don’t rush, take your time to know yourself or your audio preference, try different equipment before committing to buy. You can get hurt real fast in this hobby. Things move real fast in this hobby. I was in Vancouver last year and I saw some portable audio stores and you should visit them frequently and try out different daps, iems etc. You’ve got to know what you like before buy otherwise, you will end up with a lot of gears real fast. But thanks for putting me on a pedestal.

 

[DeepSouth]

<snip>
So, with that in mind, I don't know where I should start the change, from the DAP side or the IEM side. I am currently very skeptical and I have been reading a lot about 64 Audio and some other brands with new technologies. I have heard the JH Layla's at JH office in Orlando and, yes they sounded about 20% better than my JH16 Pros with a similar tonality which I love and I am thinking about getting them. However, while reading I have found so many other brands and people claiming different magical things that I question my knowledge and experience of what is best. I know that sound is a very personal matter and taste but still, I don't have the money to try a lot.

I have been recently listening to some Campfires (Andromeda and Solaris) and comparing to the JH16 and I was not sold on them. Andromeda brought a lot of clarity on the mid low end, heard things I didn't hear with the JH16 but it lacked bass and lacked musicality. The Solaris had bass but is not very balanced / resolved and while trying these I questioned what people had told about them because the JH16 were still the best sounding. I wonder if any of the 64 Audio ones (12 l 18 etc) are better than the Layla. I am thinking of driving to Portland to try them even though it is a 6 hour drive from Vancouver BC.

<snip>

Another thing I have heard is about IEM cables. One guy from a shop told me that changing the stock cables with a Silver Dragon one to use the balanced output from my AK320 would make a great difference in separation. How much of an improvement would it be for $200? Would I be better off just using this money to upgrade the equipment as a whole? I don't know what to do, but again, I will very much appreciate your opinion as you have heard more than I did and know the gear I currently own and how it sounds.

I've owned most of these IEMs and CIEMS.
Is a18t better than Layla? I'd say yes but with reservations. They are both TOTL, for me this is what separates them: Layla is a little darker/a18t is a little brighter. I went back and forth but after my dog chewed my Laylas AGAIN, I just use the a18t now and I'm playing with full size headphones.

Going back and forth between Layla and a18t was close, and my preference was always recording dependant. If the recording was a little dark to begin with, Layla sounded lifeless and dull, while a18t shined like a live rendition. If the recording was a little bright to begin with, I found Layla tamed it, and a18t had to be turned down in volume to compensate. I'm micro-analyzing here, and most of the time they both sounded great.

I like the vent m20 design of 64audio, I found that in a completely sealed CIEM I found if I wiggle my ear I'd hear a pop sound without good venting, and I'd get pressure build up inside the driver while landing in the airplane (it sound like the chopping of a helicopter until I take them out and reinsert, or buffeting ).

If you're looking for CIEMS, I found 64Audio to have a closer first hit to a good fit, but they had poor communication. My second fit was decent, but a little sharp in the canal. They never got back to me for a second refit. I also ordered some accessories, and they lost my order and put it on hold over a shipping problem. They never communicated that problem with me, they just kept the order one hold. I didn't push the second refit because I was in between homes and moving across the country and didn't have time to manage 64Audio's problems.

Dealing with JH Audio; their first CIEM was a terrible fit, and it took multiple refits to get a perfect fit, but after several months of back and forth it was perfect, and comfortable. I they had a copy of my perfect fit I'd rebuy them again, unfortunately I'm not in the mood for going back and forth for several months. For me, the biggest barrier to repurchasing another Layla isn't the insanely high cost of TOTL CIEMS, it's the time delay and frustration between refits.

I don't think 64 Audio is in Portland. According to Google: 2811 E Evergreen Blvd, Vancouver, WA 98661

I bought silver dragons for my Layla, it's the only cable I bought and returned over sound quality. You know that sound of unbroken in cables? Silver dragons, for me had a rough squeaky sound and it didn't improve in a week. I'd hate recommending Peter from Double Helix because they have terrible customer service communication skills and probably a huge backlog of orders, but his cables are far superior to Moon's dragons in sound and clarity without coloration, and build quality. I'm a fan of DH. I don't think it's worth buying a balanced cable to squeeze the most out of an AK player, sure there is a small benefit to sound and the balanced amp has more power which translates to more headroom, but I think the difference between two cables will have a bigger signature than the balanced vs unbalanced difference.

 

[efejoao]

@efejoao, a wise man once said greed is the ultimate vice. You are happy with what you’ve got and now you want more, huh? That is alright and that is why we are all in here encouraging each other to buy, buy and buy. If you don’t buy where would we get our stuffs from the for sale forum, right? But you are so innocent and I will feel guilty to tell you to buy this or that. On a serious note, if you are happy with what you have, don’t rush, take your time to know yourself or your audio preference, try different equipment before committing to buy. You can get hurt real fast in this hobby. Things move real fast in this hobby. I was in Vancouver last year and I saw some portable audio stores and you should visit them frequently and try out different daps, iems etc. You’ve got to know what you like before buy otherwise, you will end up with a lot of gears real fast. But thanks for putting me on a pedestal.

Hi Halo,

Again much apprentive of your time. I agree with you and I don't have the means to buy buy and buy, and I guess even if I had, I consider myself very rational person (and my partner would make sure I keep true to myself).

However, most of us will never be able to experience the vast wide range of possible true high-end options available and that is why I ask for your honest opinion. It doesn't mean I will go tomorrow and buy a $4K worth of DAP or IEM because I don't buy just based on opinions.

I remember my set of home speakers (Naim Muso), I went to the store countless times to experience it before I had the means and was sold on it. But for example, would a Vision Ears erlkoenig worth a trip to Germany to listen and experience it? What sort of experience they bring to you? What emotions and feelings? Do you know what I mean? I am not looking for the ultimate experience, but a set that makes me feel alive as the JH16 Pros did. I agree with you that I must experience more things in order to know what I like, and that is applicable to most things in life but I wanted to hear your opinions. They seem very honest.

Unfortunately here in Vancouver I don't have friends in the hobby that would allow me to experience much IEM wise.

For the AK SP2000 DAP, I will certainly stop at one of the shops to listen to it. Let's see how I feel about it and if it would be worth selling/trading my AK320.

 

[arftech]

Hi Halo,

Again much apprentive of your time. I agree with you and I don't have the means to buy buy and buy, and I guess even if I had, I consider myself very rational person (and my partner would make sure I keep true to myself).

However, most of us will never be able to experience the vast wide range of possible true high-end options available and that is why I ask for your honest opinion. It doesn't mean I will go tomorrow and buy a $4K worth of DAP or IEM because I don't buy just based on opinions.

I remember my set of home speakers (Naim Muso), I went to the store countless times to experience it before I had the means and was sold on it. But for example, would a Vision Ears erlkoenig worth a trip to Germany to listen and experience it? What sort of experience they bring to you? What emotions and feelings? Do you know what I mean? I am not looking for the ultimate experience, but a set that makes me feel alive as the JH16 Pros did. I agree with you that I must experience more things in order to know what I like, and that is applicable to most things in life but I wanted to hear your opinions. They seem very honest.

Unfortunately here in Vancouver I don't have friends in the hobby that would allow me to experience much IEM wise.

For the AK SP2000 DAP, I will certainly stop at one of the shops to listen to it. Let's see how I feel about it and if it would be worth selling/trading my AK320.

If you have the means the SP2K will be an upgrade.

 

[Stekos]

Well you have a very good combo <SNIP> To me and if you like the sound character of very clean, highly resolve, accurate tonality, real life like timber, dynamic and authoritative sound, the SP2K is the best out there.

When one is treading in totl territory, they should give you a sense of end game feel even though we all know they don’t exist but one should feel that way for at least a couple of years and that is what you spend your money on to feel that way. I know these things are expensive but businesses like AK, Sony, Lotto, Cayin, or Ibasso etc literally spend millions to improve sound enjoyment from one generation to the next just to give us that enjoyment in a tiny device so we can have the best music wherever we are and whenever our mood dictates is priceless. What you have is better than 99% of the stuff out there, so there is no shame in using it or need to upgrade unless you want to, the power to choose is within you.

Jalo's post is one of the best I've read on Head-Fi on a long time. Well said, sir.

Myself, I had an AK240. I loved it. The only thing I didn't love was the output level. I had to use an amp with my HD650's. Thought about the SP1000 (and Kann Cube) for a while, but held out for the SP2000. The AK240 is a great player, but the SP2000 is just on a completely different level. With great headphones and great source material, it's just incredible, some music is simply emotional, which I've never felt with a DAP, only with a really expensive home setup. Drives any and all headphones I've tried, even the 600ohm Sennheiser's.

I'm sure the SP3000 will be better in some ways, but I believe we're getting to the End Game in what you can do with DAP, music-quality wise. Today's portable amps and DAC's are so good, the measurements are beyond insane.

My portable setup is now the SP2000 with my HD650's (open) or Sennheiser T5's (closed). Home setup is SP2000 as driver/DAC/DAP either through my Sabaj DAC, or my Stax SR-L700MK2.

Unfortunately, I made the mistake of demo-ing the Meze Empyrean's recently. Trying to decide if it's worth it to upgrade/trade in my current headphones for a set. But I can't imagine replacing the SP2000 any time soon, the replacement DAP would have to be better AND cheaper.

 

[efejoao]

I've owned most of these IEMs and CIEMS.
Is a18t better than Layla? I'd say yes but with reservations. They are both TOTL, for me this is what separates them: Layla is a little darker/a18t is a little brighter. I went back and forth but after my dog chewed my Laylas AGAIN, I just use the a18t now and I'm playing with full size headphones.

Going back and forth between Layla and a18t was close, and my preference was always recording dependant. If the recording was a little dark to begin with, Layla sounded lifeless and dull, while a18t shined like a live rendition. If the recording was a little bright to begin with, I found Layla tamed it, and a18t had to be turned down in volume to compensate. I'm micro-analyzing here, and most of the time they both sounded great.

I like the vent m20 design of 64audio, I found that in a completely sealed CIEM I found if I wiggle my ear I'd hear a pop sound without good venting, and I'd get pressure build up inside the driver while landing in the airplane (it sound like the chopping of a helicopter until I take them out and reinsert, or buffeting ).

If you're looking for CIEMS, I found 64Audio to have a closer first hit to a good fit, but they had poor communication. My second fit was decent, but a little sharp in the canal. They never got back to me for a second refit. I also ordered some accessories, and they lost my order and put it on hold over a shipping problem. They never communicated that problem with me, they just kept the order one hold. I didn't push the second refit because I was in between homes and moving across the country and didn't have time to manage 64Audio's problems.

Dealing with JH Audio; their first CIEM was a terrible fit, and it took multiple refits to get a perfect fit, but after several months of back and forth it was perfect, and comfortable. I they had a copy of my perfect fit I'd rebuy them again, unfortunately I'm not in the mood for going back and forth for several months. For me, the biggest barrier to repurchasing another Layla isn't the insanely high cost of TOTL CIEMS, it's the time delay and frustration between refits.

I don't think 64 Audio is in Portland. According to Google: 2811 E Evergreen Blvd, Vancouver, WA 98661

I bought silver dragons for my Layla, it's the only cable I bought and returned over sound quality. You know that sound of unbroken in cables? Silver dragons, for me had a rough squeaky sound and it didn't improve in a week. I'd hate recommending Peter from Double Helix because they have terrible customer service communication skills and probably a huge backlog of orders, but his cables are far superior to Moon's dragons in sound and clarity without coloration, and build quality. I'm a fan of DH. I don't think it's worth buying a balanced cable to squeeze the most out of an AK player, sure there is a small benefit to sound and the balanced amp has more power which translates to more headroom, but I think the difference between two cables will have a bigger signature than the balanced vs unbalanced difference.

Deepsouth, thank you for your kind input and and honest opinion. While trying some more bright IEMs like Campfires Andromeda and Solaris, I disnt quite enjoy them that much. I thought it was missing a balance between everything. Andromeda made me hear things I never heard before but didn't bring any Joy to my listening. I just like a very well balanced complete experience of detail, well rounded and balanced emotion and joy. When I heard the Layla's I basically felt I heard a better more detailed and powerful JH16 which made me want it very badly. Then when I was reading praises for other unknown brands to my knowledge) I started questioning what else is out there that could blew my mind again as the first time I listened to a JH16 Pro or the first time I heard it with an AK DAP.

Regarding 64 Audio, yes they are in Vancouver but my apologies as we here consider Portland area as Portland is the biggest city in the Area and if I said Vancouver I would confuse people with Vancouver WA with Vancouver BC which is where I live.

Regarding the cable, we are talking $300. If it was you and you didn't have money to spare, would you save it as an installment for a Layla or just go with the cables for your current setup? I am asking that because I have never tried different cables and I am very worried of spending this money on something that may not bring the "new experience" I am looking for in terms of improvement.

Thank you very much for your time and attention dedicated to my message.

 

[efejoao]

Jalo's post is one of the best I've read on Head-Fi on a long time. Well said, sir.

Myself, I had an AK240. I loved it. The only thing I didn't love was the output level. I had to use an amp with my HD650's. Thought about the SP1000 (and Kann Cube) for a while, but held out for the SP2000. The AK240 is a great player, but the SP2000 is just on a completely different level. With great headphones and great source material, it's just incredible, some music is simply emotional, which I've never felt with a DAP, only with a really expensive home setup. Drives any and all headphones I've tried, even the 600ohm Sennheiser's.

I'm sure the SP3000 will be better in some ways, but I believe we're getting to the End Game in what you can do with DAP, music-quality wise. Today's portable amps and DAC's are so good, the measurements are beyond insane.

My portable setup is now the SP2000 with my HD650's (open) or Sennheiser T5's (closed). Home setup is SP2000 as driver/DAC/DAP either through my Sabaj DAC, or my Stax SR-L700MK2.

Unfortunately, I made the mistake of demo-ing the Meze Empyrean's recently. Trying to decide if it's worth it to upgrade/trade in my current headphones for a set. But I can't imagine replacing the SP2000 any time soon, the replacement DAP would have to be better AND cheaper.

Stekos,

Thank you very much for your input and opinion. It really matters to me. I will certainly try it tomorrow in the shop to see what it's like. I am a bit afraid of trying because my partner will send me to the dogs house if I want to buy it. Hahah

I once heard the HD800s in the shop and my god so disappointed. I have read so many things about this headphone and I wouldn't pay 100 bucks for it if I didn't know the price. It was basically a bunch of mids and lows and no life to it, no emotion, no joy, nothing, just sounds. And at the time people were praising it as the best thing ever. I know I will never get the same impressions from anyone else as we are humans and unique to what we are and can / how we hear, but I love hearing/reading the impressions.

Interesting enough, I feel that when I am reading these impressions I kind of am getting to know the person in a different way. When we share impressions is kind of sharing feelings, feelings that none that don't appreciate the audiophile hobby would understand.

And example was bringing my partner to JH Audio to listen to the Layla's versus the one of their low ends IEMs. My god the difference is so big and so noticeable and when he was listening he couldn't see it. I was very disappointed because I wanted so bad for him to understand me and the value /emotion / joy that brings, and for him he said he could hear the details but is just fine with his Bose Quiet Comfort 35.

Again, we are all different and he is okay with spending 100 bucks in a nice piece of paper because of the quality of the paper or quality of the pen, which I actually feel it feels the same as a regular paper and regular BIC pen.

 

[efejoao]

I've owned most of these IEMs and CIEMS.
Is a18t better than Layla? I'd say yes but with reservations. They are both TOTL, for me this is what separates them: Layla is a little darker/a18t is a little brighter. I went back and forth but after my dog chewed my Laylas AGAIN, I just use the a18t now and I'm playing with full size headphones.

Going back and forth between Layla and a18t was close, and my preference was always recording dependant. If the recording was a little dark to begin with, Layla sounded lifeless and dull, while a18t shined like a live rendition. If the recording was a little bright to begin with, I found Layla tamed it, and a18t had to be turned down in volume to compensate. I'm micro-analyzing here, and most of the time they both sounded great.

I like the vent m20 design of 64audio, I found that in a completely sealed CIEM I found if I wiggle my ear I'd hear a pop sound without good venting, and I'd get pressure build up inside the driver while landing in the airplane (it sound like the chopping of a helicopter until I take them out and reinsert, or buffeting ).

If you're looking for CIEMS, I found 64Audio to have a closer first hit to a good fit, but they had poor communication. My second fit was decent, but a little sharp in the canal. They never got back to me for a second refit. I also ordered some accessories, and they lost my order and put it on hold over a shipping problem. They never communicated that problem with me, they just kept the order one hold. I didn't push the second refit because I was in between homes and moving across the country and didn't have time to manage 64Audio's problems.

Dealing with JH Audio; their first CIEM was a terrible fit, and it took multiple refits to get a perfect fit, but after several months of back and forth it was perfect, and comfortable. I they had a copy of my perfect fit I'd rebuy them again, unfortunately I'm not in the mood for going back and forth for several months. For me, the biggest barrier to repurchasing another Layla isn't the insanely high cost of TOTL CIEMS, it's the time delay and frustration between refits.

I don't think 64 Audio is in Portland. According to Google: 2811 E Evergreen Blvd, Vancouver, WA 98661

I bought silver dragons for my Layla, it's the only cable I bought and returned over sound quality. You know that sound of unbroken in cables? Silver dragons, for me had a rough squeaky sound and it didn't improve in a week. I'd hate recommending Peter from Double Helix because they have terrible customer service communication skills and probably a huge backlog of orders, but his cables are far superior to Moon's dragons in sound and clarity without coloration, and build quality. I'm a fan of DH. I don't think it's worth buying a balanced cable to squeeze the most out of an AK player, sure there is a small benefit to sound and the balanced amp has more power which translates to more headroom, but I think the difference between two cables will have a bigger signature than the balanced vs unbalanced difference.

Oh and I forgot to.mention your point regarding ear impressions. My experience with JH Audio has always been exceptional. The first impression I had worked very well for the first 6 years and last year I had a refit done to my JH16s at their shop which was amazingly good as well.

So I am really sorry to hear your bad experiences. I know they can ruin the overall experience like eating in an amazing restaurant and having bad service.

 

[DeepSouth]

Deepsouth, thank you for your kind input and and honest opinion. While trying some more bright IEMs like Campfires Andromeda and Solaris, I disnt quite enjoy them that much. I thought it was missing a balance between everything. Andromeda made me hear things I never heard before but didn't bring any Joy to my listening. I just like a very well balanced complete experience of detail, well rounded and balanced emotion and joy. When I heard the Layla's I basically felt I heard a better more detailed and powerful JH16 which made me want it very badly. Then when I was reading praises for other unknown brands to my knowledge) I started questioning what else is out there that could blew my mind again as the first time I listened to a JH16 Pro or the first time I heard it with an AK DAP.

Regarding 64 Audio, yes they are in Vancouver but my apologies as we here consider Portland area as Portland is the biggest city in the Area and if I said Vancouver I would confuse people with Vancouver WA with Vancouver BC which is where I live.

Regarding the cable, we are talking $300. If it was you and you didn't have money to spare, would you save it as an installment for a Layla or just go with the cables for your current setup? I am asking that because I have never tried different cables and I am very worried of spending this money on something that may not bring the "new experience" I am looking for in terms of improvement.

Thank you very much for your time and attention dedicated to my message.

Layla and 64 Audio's a18t are more alike than they are different, I'm focusing on a micro difference which is recording dependant, but if you love the house sound of JHA I wouldn't fight it. I can't find my Andromeda right now due to a recent move across the country, but once I got into TOTL CIEMS, they have been reserved for cellphone and ipad use only. They aren't in the same league, and I liked them plenty.

I would not buy a 2 pin cable for $200 on a CIEM that I plan on retiring with an itch to upgrade. I haven't heard these, but JHA improved their stock cables with higher purity copper and silver plating for $35 https://jhaudio.com/p/spare-iem-cable. If I upgrade to Layla, the 2-pin cable quickly becomes obsolete. I also ordered both black and silver dragon from Moon Audio, I quickly returned the silver dragons because I thought they sounded terrible, I kept the black dragons until I moved on to Double Helix. I tried selling my black dragons here but no one wanted them.

If I really wanted to upgrade, and I loved JHA's house sound, but I'm on a budget, I'd try to listen to Roxanne before spending Layla money. I listened to both side-by-side a lot before buying Layla. Many employees at RMAF/Canjam that worked for JHA were split between Layla and Roxanne, I'd say more of them liked Roxanne citing more or better bass. With UIEMs and a poor fit I struggled to get bass out of either, but once I ditched silicone rubber for foam the bass was great on both. If you go to RMAF, you might be able to join pit crew (or whatever they call it) for a discount, or wait until the next sale if you're on the email list.

 

[DeepSouth]

JHA handled me fairly well, I'm not boycotting them. If I lived in Orlando, I'd buy replacement Laylas in a heartbeat.

Going back to Sp2000, it should be quite a jump too. When I bought the sp1000 the store didn't have one to demo, but an employee there was kind enough to loan me one model that could be an AK 320 or 380. It sounded worse than my iphone, and I suspect his was defective or needed to be rebroken in. RMAF changed my mind with a sp1000 demo. I loved it except that it was buggy and it's been in the shop for the second time; each time takes a month. This reminds me that the 2.5 balanced jack isn't exactly a good idea; it's fragile.

 

[szore]

Oh my god, Jalo! Thank you very much. You don't know how much I appreciate your time and attention dedicated to my question. You brought so much to the table that I can't event think how to thank you. This is a great late Christmas gift to me.

I have owned a JH16 Pros for 7 years now and the AK 320 for 3 years and they are absolutely the best I have heard as I mentioned to you. I have been recently on a search for something that could beat them but I haven't been too successful.

I am okay spending the money if there is really a very "night and day difference" which it was from a UE Triple-fi to a JH16 Pro and on the DAP side from a Fiiio X5 to an AK 320. Spent the hell out of my money but it was with it every single penny.

Now I am looking for a better experience than what I have. I just love the excitement, clarity and detail of my combo. Sometimes it can be a bit fatiguing to relax but they bring me a feeling that no other combo has brought to date. The sounds is so clear, very separated, and well rounded /balanced.

So, with that in mind, I don't know where I should start the change, from the DAP side or the IEM side. I am currently very skeptical and I have been reading a lot about 64 Audio and some other brands with new technologies. I have heard the JH Layla's at JH office in Orlando and, yes they sounded about 20% better than my JH16 Pros with a similar tonality which I love and I am thinking about getting them. However, while reading I have found so many other brands and people claiming different magical things that I question my knowledge and experience of what is best. I know that sound is a very personal matter and taste but still, I don't have the money to try a lot.

I have been recently listening to some Campfires (Andromeda and Solaris) and comparing to the JH16 and I was not sold on them. Andromeda brought a lot of clarity on the mid low end, heard things I didn't hear with the JH16 but it lacked bass and lacked musicality. The Solaris had bass but is not very balanced / resolved and while trying these I questioned what people had told about them because the JH16 were still the best sounding. I wonder if any of the 64 Audio ones (12 l 18 etc) are better than the Layla. I am thinking of driving to Portland to try them even though it is a 6 hour drive from Vancouver BC.

On the AK 320, I love them beside the UI and the lack of upgrades from AK. I don't have any other equipment (AMP/DAC) and am indeed looking for a all in one solution that would beat it by far (again, night and day) I may give the SP1000 and 2000 a try at the shop tomorrow if I can but I am not sure if they are going to deliver a way better experience with a dated IEM (JH16).

Another thing I have heard is about IEM cables. One guy from a shop told me that changing the stock cables with a Silver Dragon one to use the balanced output from my AK320 would make a great difference in separation. How much of an improvement would it be for $200? Would I be better off just using this money to upgrade the equipment as a whole? I don't know what to do, but again, I will very much appreciate your opinion as you have heard more than I did and know the gear I currently own and how it sounds.

Thank you very VERY much again for your time and attention. You brought a smile to my face this morning like a kid with a gift on Christmas.



Regarding the AK

I just picked up a used Triton 8 hybrid cable for $100, and the improvement was profound with my SE100 and Valkyries. 8 wire is the only way to go. The Triton 8 new goes for $200, it's a steal for a 4 wire let alone a 8 wire. Do some research and buy used if possible!