[MistahBungle]

How can anyone afford the bi annual spending to keep upgrading like this? I wish more people are like Sony, Sennheiser, etc making flagship as actual FLAGSHIP.
Not as bag of Chips.

Yeah but you're a Sony fanboy so you would say that

 

[Sp12er3]

Yeah, but at least I ain't getting my purchase depreciate in value after every 2 years. I can get a used Sp1000 Stainless steel for like what, 33% of its release msrp now?

 

[MistahBungle]

Yeah, but at least I ain't getting my purchase depreciate in value after every 2 years. I can get a used Sp1000 Stainless steel for like what, 33% of its release msrp now?

Agree with the premise in your previous post - I can't imagine myself spending what I spent at the end of last year on gear every two years or whatever when some manufacturer decides to make something shiny & new that's only incrementally 'better' (which is subjective anyway) when what I already have does exactly what I want. In another couple of yrs (say, 4-5 yrs after purchasing the gear I got last year), sure, I'll see what's on offer. Phone manufacturers in particular have been doing the 'incrementally better' thing for the past 10 yrs or so without offering anything particularly game changing, looks like audio gear manufacturers are taking a leaf out of their book.

 

[ops V]

I have several players and all of them are different in sound and each in its own way good for certain tasks. The main drawback of the Sony NW-WM1A/Z is the weak amplification. They have almost ten times less power than the A&ultima SP2000. Not all IEMs they will open, and about the full-size headphones with them it is better to forget. Their main advantage is that they will not become obsolete for a long time due to the lack of android. Currently my favorite three players: A&ultima SP2000SS, Cayin N6II R01 and Sony NW-WM1A. And for outings I mostly use the lightweight and compact A&norma SR15. And when it comes to sound, the A&ultima SP2000 is out of competition for me so far.

 

[Sp12er3]

I can understand owning different iem or DAP for different use case & genres, but who are they aiming for all these flagship updates? Surely their current fans who can afford to would already have their past flagships by now, are manufacturers keep expecting people who already bought their past product to keep buying new ones at an increasing price point no less?
That's like, Apple fans mentality.

 

[IgeNeLL]

Have gone for SP3000 Silver ) waiting to compare it with SP2000 Gold :3

 

[ops V]

I can understand owning different iem or DAP for different use case & genres, but who are they aiming for all these flagship updates? Surely their current fans who can afford to would already have their past flagships by now, are manufacturers keep expecting people who already bought their past product to keep buying new ones at an increasing price point no less?
That's like, Apple fans mentality.

I am still a BlackBerry fan.

 

[pdL389]

Have gone for SP3000 Silver ) waiting to compare it with SP2000 Gold :3

Same here: went with the Silver. I too own SP2K VG. I spent at least 3 hrs with the new SP3000 at CanJam SoCal listening and comparing. The new one is better in all aspects: even wider soundstage, cleaner sound, blacker background etc, however the difference in-between is not day’n night.

 

[NickMit]

I wish more people are like Sony, Sennheiser, etc making flagship as actual FLAGSHIP.
Not as bag of Chips.

Em...not sure I understand what you mean by this) So everyone's DAPS are just bags of chips and Sony produces bags full of rainbow and magic?)

I can get a used Sp1000 Stainless steel for like what, 33% of its release msrp now?

Well, SP1k has been released 5 years ago... I doubt you will sell your 5-year-old Sony player, or any player for that matter, for more than a similar percentage of the initial cost. Unless it's something very rare, limited edition, 100 units only, thing. But then again, the price of such a player for AK to make a profit of it would be not 3,5k usd, but 35k... So, are you sure you want to walk that path?))) personally, I'd prefer cheaper DAPS, even if it means more people will have the same thing as me, and price will go down a bit faster. It will be cheaper in the end, and you can get updated better players more frequently. It's still far from 1 year refreshment of phones.

but who are they aiming for all these flagship updates?

Well, SP2k was released somewhere around 3 years ago, and if you check the SP2k thread, you will probably be surprised that almost on every page for the last...year or so, people have been asking - when oh when will we get a new flagship player, as this is so old already. Please, Jason, we beg you, give us some news already. Aaaagh, the factory got burned down!!!

All these people will go and buy SP3k now. And not because they are mindless fanboys, but because the new version provides many important things, which the previous two lack - better interface (good), 4.4mm (yeah boyyy), 5000 mAh (yes, yes, oh my god finally!). Not to mention improvement in sound etc. etc.

So it's not like iPhone 14, when you compare your new CPU not to the last year's but to 2019 model

 

[Sp12er3]

I do think why 4.4mm bal ain't on sp2000 is just from AK being stubborn their 2.5mm never took off, personally, sound improvement on 2-3 years product research cycle is all more subjective than objective,
On features I feel they should have released the old flagship packed with all the popular ports. Big battery and good chip from the beginning, but no, their business is only making players so they clearly held back "upgrades" even on their big Flagships, as they can't survive without doing that iterative improvements is my problem with it.

These things are Hella expensive, Heck you can buy 3 iPhone pro maxes while you wait for these "upgrades" while losing about the value of one/2 pro max selling your old one too.
That's why I don't like them being sold like replenishable chips for people to keep buying one every 2-3 years.
How about instead this is what happened? How about if sp2000 doesn't exist and you just jump from 1k to 3k? What exactly was sp2K good for?

 

[NickMit]

personally, sound improvement on 2-3 years product research cycle is all more subjective than objective,

You say personally, and then objective in one sentence

But indeed, time does not equal change in quality anyhow. Different components, technologies and tuning do.

On features I feel they should have released the old flagship packed with all the popular ports. Big battery and good chip from the beginning, but no, their business is only making players so they clearly held back "upgrades" even on their big Flagships, as they can't survive without doing that iterative improvements is my problem with it.

No product is perfect. Was there a room for improvement? Yes, no one will disagree with you. But where there isn't? For instance, why does Sony think that combining amplification and DAC chip was a good idea instead of separating them? They were like - who cares, let's just not bother with R&D and all this isolation thing etc. No one will notice anyway...
You will not see almost anyone with flagship IEMs or headphones, who are using Sony players, because while offering nice playtime and UI, their sound...let's just say that they are not competitive with AK or Cayin or LPGT. And sound is everything. Not to mention that iBasso provides better sound and amplification while being much cheaper!

So it looks like Sony's business is only making players "a bit better" than iPods, but selling at insane prices, using their brand name. According to your own logic.

These things are Hella expensive

Well, that's true. But what can you do? I mean, we can collaborate within head-fi society and make our own company, which will produce ideal players for everyone, for free and that no one will go away without satisfaction

How about instead this is what happened? How about if sp2000 doesn't exist and you just jump from 1k to 3k? What exactly was sp2K good for?

You can argue that yes, SP2k wasn't a big difference with SP1k. That's true. Some people switched, some decided that it's not worth it at the time. I guess, it was more like SP1k restyle (like in cars) than the real next generation of a flagship player.
But again, this is why everyone is so excited about SP3k, as there are way more improvements! What else do you need?..

 

[Sp12er3]

You're completely missing the point, "these things are Hella expensive, thus why are they getting churned out like chips?" Are my question.
Deliberate, thorough testing and meaningful upgrade for Flagship IMO is a bigger necessity rather forcing bi annual iterative Flagship releases. That's what you should've paid for. More of their time to make the product you choose to buy better.

Its Sony's design decision to make digital amp and stick with it. Having low driving power is the result of it thus are their target market, that's simply it. They are not making DAP for hungry cans and people who buy em know from the start.

Not sure whether you're blind or what about walkman's popularity, but even just here on Head fi, have you checked how big walkman threads are? Over 3k pages on the original and 300 to 400 for M2 already, not counting the modding only threads.
Ah well let's stop this before mod come and police us.
Yeah SP3k improvements are good, but it being that good just proves there was no point for the SP2k.

 

[NickMit]

these things are Hella expensive, thus why are they getting churned out like chips?

porsche cars cost many times more. Why do they release new models every year? stupid stupid brand! please, someone, gift me a porsche

Deliberate, thorough testing and meaningful upgrade for Flagship IMO is a bigger necessity rather forcing bi annual iterative Flagship releases. That's what you should've paid for. More of their time to make the product you choose to buy better.

From what it seems you have not even heard SP3k yet. Why are you making so bold conclusions of this being a forced release and not a meaningful upgrade then?

Its Sony's design decision to make digital amp and stick with it.

Fair enough by me. But this is exactly the same case as with 2.5mm for AK and so on. I just used your own logic against you.

Not sure whether you're blind or what about walkman's popularity, but even just here on Head fi, have you checked how big walkman threads are?

Well, not everyone is willing to pay 3k for DAP and another 3k for IEM, and then maybe couple thousands for a fancy cable. Nothing wrong with that, that was not my point. My point was - all your takes on AK can be easily transferred to Sony or any DAPs fo that matter. Every DAP has strong and weak points.

Yeah SP3k improvements are good, but it being that good just proves there was no point for the SP2k.

I got confused. So, you are saying that improvements are good this time. But your initial message was - stop forcing releases every 2 years with no improvements, why people are spending so much money on AK?

Eh?.....

 

[Sp12er3]

You do know I'm posting this in Sp2000 thread right?

 

[denis1976]

People can say what they want ,but saying that the sp1000 to sp2000 is a small jump is a big untruth, power wise and quality wise soundstage etc sp2000 is noticible better, i know because i had both i am not a speculator, if i goe into speculation i would say that the diference between sp2000 and sp3000 is smaller than the sp1000 to sp2000