[JasonNYC]

hi any news bout sp3000

no

 

[efftee]

hi any news bout sp3000

Hopeful for a Q4 launch.

 

[Nimerino]

I’m interested in what you would feel would be required for the upgrade to an SP3000 to be worth it? If we accept that any measurable DAC performance is inaudible, it’s a question of improving only the amp, and there are other options for that (including from A&K). If you believe the measurable DAC performance is audible, every current DAC measures significantly worse than the 4499, aside from perhaps the 4499EX which is a cut-down part with no on-board signal processing and half the channels.

As the landscape stands, if you’re a fan of the AKM chips and their sound there’s nothing that justifies an upgrade, and any upgrade in terms of CPU/OS would be laden with a likely performance deficit to the SP2000 sonically. It’s an unprecedented situation, but I’ll enjoy the fact that I’ve got what I think is the best-sounding DAP I’ve owned without having to worry about its rapid obsolescence.

 

[efftee]

I’m interested in what you would feel would be required for the upgrade to an SP3000 to be worth it?

Not asking much, I'd like to see (1) 4.4mm balanced out, which is fully expectable, (2) true Line-out and (3) if no Android, then a better, easier way to install/update streaming apps on the SP3K.

If we accept that any measurable DAC performance is inaudible, it’s a question of improving only the amp, and there are other options for that (including from A&K). If you believe the measurable DAC performance is audible, every current DAC measures significantly worse than the 4499, aside from perhaps the 4499EX which is a cut-down part with no on-board signal processing and half the channels.

As the landscape stands, if you’re a fan of the AKM chips and their sound there’s nothing that justifies an upgrade, and any upgrade in terms of CPU/OS would be laden with a likely performance deficit to the SP2000 sonically. It’s an unprecedented situation

Hmm, it is true that DAC performance could not be quantified, and any audible differences are at best subjective. Unlike amps, whose voltage and current, at the base level, directly affect sound, but the quality of the parts (wires, resistors and especially capacitors) and engineering, etc, would make a bigger impact, DACS could be much easier or infinitely more challenging to fashion. I am not an expert but know a little and can talk more, but I don't think that is the point of the discussion here. Long story short, it is all about whether we like a certain house sound or not, and in this case, I am assuming that we, since we are in here, do like the AK (Astell & Kern) sound.

Specifically, I like the SP2K, to some extent the SP1K; AKM (Asahi Kasei Microdevices) is a factor but it is not just the AK4499 (SP2K) or AK4497 (SP1K) because the DX300 Max uses the AK4499 too and it sounds radically different. The implementation is equally important, if not more so; the Ultimate mode on the 3Max cranks out music generated by all 8 channels from 2x AK4499 improving resolution and overall sound quality. Some would argue that AK hadn't milked everything out of the SP2K -- I'd tend to agree. The AK sound is (a tad) warm and musical, reminiscent of the Sony house sound to me, and improving resolution and edginess, imo, would raise the ceiling and produce better quality sound in that direction.

I did not like the SP2T though; it could due to the Sabre ES9068AS and I also do not like the ROHM BD34301 chip, which drives the popular N8ii as well as DX320. They are not worse, just different and not the sound that I personally like in the players they are presently found. For selfish reasons, I pray that AK wouldn't use any of those! The AK4499EX + AK4191 offer promising improvements and AKM chips, for good or bad, are traditionally not so difficult to implement so I am hoping the SP3K would employ that AKM combination.

As I have now officially passed up on the 1ZM2, N8ii and DX320, I will be keenly focused on the SP3K (and LP7). I have a good feeling that AK fans will not be disappointed with the SP3K when it rolls out later this year...

I’ll enjoy the fact that I’ve got what I think is the best-sounding DAP I’ve owned without having to worry about its rapid obsolescence.

Finally, if you listen to stored music, no DAP would be obsolete; you'd be able to continue to play them for an eternity. I have an almost 10-year Tera Player that still plays and sounds just as amazing! It is just harder now to find old 30Mb/s SD cards that would work with it. It's hard to say if that is the case if you stream, and whether streamers like Apple Music, Spotify, Tidal, etc, would continue to support backward OSes. I believe the oldest DAPS capable of streaming are still functional so perhaps obsolescence in this case is more in the head than the player...

 

[theveterans]

Specifically, I like the SP2K, to some extent the SP1K; AKM (Asahi Kasei Microdevices) is a factor but it is not just the AK4499 (SP2K) or AK4497 (SP1K) because the DX300 Max uses the AK4499 too and it sounds radically different. The implementation is equally important, if not more so; the Ultimate mode on the 3Max cranks out music generated by all 8 channels from 2x AK4499 improving resolution and overall sound quality. Some would argue that AK hadn't milked everything out of the SP2K -- I'd tend to agree. The AK sound is (a tad) warm and musical, reminiscent of the Sony house sound to me, and improving resolution and edginess, imo, would raise the ceiling and produce better quality sound in that direction.

Milking the smallest plankton out of those chips in a DAP form would be a monumental achievement IMO. The very best AK4497 implementation I've ever demoed was from the Klimax DS/3 from Linn. SP2000 to me currently still stands to be on the top of resolution/highly refined sound quality in the DAP arena.

 

[efftee]

Milking the smallest plankton out of those chips in a DAP form would be a monumental achievement IMO. The very best AK4497 implementation I've ever demoed was from the Klimax DS/3 from Linn. SP2000 to me currently still stands to be on the top of resolution/highly refined sound quality in the DAP arena.

Well, one could buy the DAC chips off the shelves and install them per the accompanied guidelines and enjoy the DAC as they are designed. The AKM chips are known to be more in that direction, although iBasso was able to configure their dual AK4499 to operate at its full 4 channels per chip. Alternatively, designers/engineers write proprietary codes to work along the DAC chips, FPGAs, clocks, etc, to produce improved results as intended. It gets complicated but DAP makers like LP, Lotoo too if not wrong, do it; I am unfamiliar with the Klimax DSM/3 but I'd expect a top brand like Linn to not just use a DAC chip and play off it!

This is all subjective of course, my take is the AK refinement level is quite top-notch, I would certainly not put the SP2K behind Sony, whose DMP-Z1 would be their standard of refinement. As for resolution, I think there is much room for improvement; many DAPs in the market today are already producing at better levels of resolution compared to the SP2K. The SP3K would no doubt catch up, but I am hoping it will leapfrog the usual suspects and be a revolutionary rather than evolutionary player!

 

[denis1976]

Well, one could buy the DAC chips off the shelves and install them per the accompanied guidelines and enjoy the DAC as they are designed. The AKM chips are known to be more in that direction, although iBasso was able to configure their dual AK4499 to operate at its full 4 channels per chip. Alternatively, designers/engineers write proprietary codes to work along the DAC chips, FPGAs, clocks, etc, to produce improved results as intended. It gets complicated but DAP makers like LP, Lotoo too if not wrong, do it; I am unfamiliar with the Klimax DSM/3 but I'd expect a top brand like Linn to not just use a DAC chip and play off it!

This is all subjective of course, my take is the AK refinement level is quite top-notch, I would certainly not put the SP2K behind Sony, whose DMP-Z1 would be their standard of refinement. As for resolution, I think there is much room for improvement; many DAPs in the market today are already producing at better levels of resolution compared to the SP2K. The SP3K would no doubt catch up, but I am hoping it will leapfrog the usual suspects and be a revolutionary rather than evolutionary player!

If you could tell me what dap at the same price range has the same natural and sweet sound of the sp2000 and has better resolution I would thank you...

 

[denis1976]

Not asking much, I'd like to see (1) 4.4mm balanced out, which is fully expectable, (2) true Line-out and (3) if no Android, then a better, easier way to install/update streaming apps on the SP3K.


Hmm, it is true that DAC performance could not be quantified, and any audible differences are at best subjective. Unlike amps, whose voltage and current, at the base level, directly affect sound, but the quality of the parts (wires, resistors and especially capacitors) and engineering, etc, would make a bigger impact, DACS could be much easier or infinitely more challenging to fashion. I am not an expert but know a little and can talk more, but I don't think that is the point of the discussion here. Long story short, it is all about whether we like a certain house sound or not, and in this case, I am assuming that we, since we are in here, do like the AK (Astell & Kern) sound.

Specifically, I like the SP2K, to some extent the SP1K; AKM (Asahi Kasei Microdevices) is a factor but it is not just the AK4499 (SP2K) or AK4497 (SP1K) because the DX300 Max uses the AK4499 too and it sounds radically different. The implementation is equally important, if not more so; the Ultimate mode on the 3Max cranks out music generated by all 8 channels from 2x AK4499 improving resolution and overall sound quality. Some would argue that AK hadn't milked everything out of the SP2K -- I'd tend to agree. The AK sound is (a tad) warm and musical, reminiscent of the Sony house sound to me, and improving resolution and edginess, imo, would raise the ceiling and produce better quality sound in that direction.

I did not like the SP2T though; it could due to the Sabre ES9068AS and I also do not like the ROHM BD34301 chip, which drives the popular N8ii as well as DX320. They are not worse, just different and not the sound that I personally like in the players they are presently found. For selfish reasons, I pray that AK wouldn't use any of those! The AK4499EX + AK4191 offer promising improvements and AKM chips, for good or bad, are traditionally not so difficult to implement so I am hoping the SP3K would employ that AKM combination.

As I have now officially passed up on the 1ZM2, N8ii and DX320, I will be keenly focused on the SP3K (and LP7). I have a good feeling that AK fans will not be disappointed with the SP3K when it rolls out later this year...


Finally, if you listen to stored music, no DAP would be obsolete; you'd be able to continue to play them for an eternity. I have an almost 10-year Tera Player that still plays and sounds just as amazing! It is just harder now to find old 30Mb/s SD cards that would work with it. It's hard to say if that is the case if you stream, and whether streamers like Apple Music, Spotify, Tidal, etc, would continue to support backward OSes. I believe the oldest DAPS capable of streaming are still functional so perhaps obsolescence in this case is more in the head than the player...

About the akm4499 milked, who has or had the dx300max and experienced the normal and ultimate mode knows the difference, in terms of tonality the dx300max only gets close to sp2000(at least the copper version) in ultimate mode, so I think that they are very well milked, one thing that AK has not milked is marketing with a album full of pictures, diagrams and explanation about what they done what brand of capacitors and about arquitecture of Amp etc, that is bad marketing compared with other brands, and is bad also for the mod masters that don't know how to mod...and them they say that AK is bad that other are great and in the end in what truly matters that is how it sounds, what they say is crap, because the sound is simply awsome and they can say what they want...

 

[efftee]

If you could tell me what dap at the same price range has the same natural and sweet sound of the sp2000 and has better resolution I would thank you...

In the same price range, on its own -- none, imo. Ergo, I am 'keenly focused' on the SP3K.

About the akm4499 milked, who has or had the dx300max and experienced the normal and ultimate mode knows the difference, in terms of tonality the dx300max only gets close to sp2000(at least the copper version) in ultimate mode, so I think that they are very well milked, one thing that AK has not milked is marketing with a album full of pictures, diagrams and explanation about what they done what brand of capacitors and about arquitecture of Amp etc, that is bad marketing compared with other brands, and is bad also for the mod masters that don't know how to mod...and them they say that AK is bad that other are great and in the end in what truly matters that is how it sounds, what they say is crap, because the sound is simply awsome and they can say what they want...

Sorry, but I do not agree. I have the SP2K Cu and 3MaxTi, and in Ultimate Mode, the resolution, soundstage and other technicals exceeds the SP2K-Cu. The tonality and timbre is different; the SP2K is warmer and more musical, the 3MTi is more neutral and reference-like. If you are not getting that, perhaps the transducers or some other component on the audio chain is not held constant between the two DAPs.

Lets keep on topic here, and that is sound quality. I, for one, am not fooled by what the brochure says so do not need a lesson from you about what the marketing brochure says; I suspect most of us here no noobs to such deceptions too. I also did not make any reference to after market mods -- just what the players are and can do as designed and manufactured by their respective brands. No one else, least not me, said anything about what sounded great or crap. In the end, you determine that based on the aggregate impression from material/genre-transport/clock-DAC-Amp/Preamp that you are experiencing.

I have many AK DAPs starting from the AK100, 120 to 240, skipped the 380, then on to the SP1K and SP2K; I think I'd qualify as a fan. But calling a spade a spade, the SP2K has indeed fallen behind the competition in recent times. You can think otherwise and choose to disagree, but I'd humbly urge you to go have a listen to what the current market leading DAPs sound like before deciding what is or not awesome.

 

[denis1976]

In the same price range, on its own -- none, imo. Ergo, I am 'keenly focused' on the SP3K.


Sorry, but I do not agree. I have the SP2K Cu and 3MaxTi, and in Ultimate Mode, the resolution, soundstage and other technicals exceeds the SP2K-Cu. The tonality and timbre is different; the SP2K is warmer and more musical, the 3MTi is more neutral and reference-like. If you are not getting that, perhaps the transducers or some other component on the audio chain is not held constant between the two DAPs.

Lets keep on topic here, and that is sound quality. I, for one, am not fooled by what the brochure says so do not need a lesson from you about what the marketing brochure says; I suspect most of us here no noobs to such deceptions too. I also did not make any reference to after market mods -- just what the players are and can do as designed and manufactured by their respective brands. No one else, least not me, said anything about what sounded great or crap. In the end, you determine that based on the aggregate impression from material/genre-transport/clock-DAC-Amp/Preamp that you are experiencing.

I have many AK DAPs starting from the AK100, 120 to 240, skipped the 380, then on to the SP1K and SP2K; I think I'd qualify as a fan. But calling a spade a spade, the SP2K has indeed fallen behind the competition in recent times. You can think otherwise and choose to disagree, but I'd humbly urge you to go have a listen to what the current market leading DAPs sound like before deciding what is or not awesome.

Can not say anything about dx300maxti I had the 300ss, I don't give opinions about things I never heard, but I do perfer a musical signature instead of a analytical one, by far...

 

[efftee]

If you could tell me what dap at the same price range has the same natural and sweet sound of the sp2000 and has better resolution I would thank you...

On second thought, if you could find a Hifiman R2R2000 or better, a HM1000, preferably the Quad PCM1704K edition, used pricing could be close to the SP2K, that would be the best musical and technically accomplished DAP imo. Those are R2R implementations and I drive my HM1K Quad with an external amp and have not heard any (trans)portable rig sound better. Some may argue the LP6 and variants are better; I have a 6Ti coming and will confirm or refute that claim later.

 

[efftee]

Can not say anything about dx300maxti I had the 300ss, I don't give opinions about things I never heard, but I do perfer a musical signature instead of a analytical one, by far...

Can I offer you another way of thinking? Get a technically good DAP/DAC and use transducers (Ear/Headphones) to add musicality or flavor to your music. Why do I say that? You'd want a DAC/DAP to be as good as it gets in reproducing the recorded music, even if it means being analytical — reference-like tends to be neutral. If the sound is colored at the source, there is no way to reverse it. But if the signal is pure, it is not so difficult to use IEMS, and cables, to tweak the flavor to suit the material, genre, occasion, etc. Just a thought...

 

[Nimerino]

Sorry, but I do not agree. I have the SP2K Cu and 3MaxTi, and in Ultimate Mode, the resolution, soundstage and other technicals exceeds the SP2K-Cu. The tonality and timbre is different; the SP2K is warmer and more musical, the 3MTi is more neutral and reference-like. If you are not getting that, perhaps the transducers or some other component on the audio chain is not held constant between the two DAPs.

And I, in turn, disagree with this. I will not do the stereotypical head-fi thing of listing my extensive purchasing history to attempt to validate my subjective opinions. Nor will I demean other head-fiers by suggesting their opinions are due to ineptitude or inexperience while mine are not. I am capable of having my own opinion despite these things, and have not found a current DAP that exceeds the SP2000 sonically in any meaningful way, and that includes in terms of resolution. The 300 Max doesn’t even get close, no matter which transducer or setting I use. Ergo, it’s gone and the SP2000 stays. The R2R DACs are inferior in all technicalities including resolution, though the ways in which they are inferior may be quite pleasing.

 

[denis1976]

And I, in turn, disagree with this. I will not do the stereotypical head-fi thing of listing my extensive purchasing history to attempt to validate my subjective opinions. Nor will I demean other head-fiers by suggesting their opinions are due to ineptitude or inexperience while mine are not. I am capable of having my own opinion despite these things, and have not found a current DAP that exceeds the SP2000 sonically in any meaningful way, and that includes in terms of resolution. The 300 Max doesn’t even get close, no matter which transducer or setting I use. Ergo, it’s gone and the SP2000 stays. The R2R DACs are inferior in all technicalities including resolution, though the ways in which they are inferior may be quite pleasing.

100% agree, opinions of others are equally valid and legit, with this I don't mean that other daps are crap, there are many awsome sounding daps, the thing is IMO the sp2000 sits among the very best, and this being truth even after almost 3 years after the release, is something special

 

[efftee]

And I, in turn, disagree with this. I will not do the stereotypical head-fi thing of listing my extensive purchasing history to attempt to validate my subjective opinions. Nor will I demean other head-fiers by suggesting their opinions are due to ineptitude or inexperience while mine are not.

I listed my AK collections to validate my views derived from experience on the AK sound and also being a fan. So that when I went on to 'call a spade a spade' by saying the SP2K is outdated, I am speaking as fan, not troll. So do please let me know where and how I have demeaned others?

I am capable of having my own opinion despite these things, and have not found a current DAP that exceeds the SP2000 sonically in any meaningful way, and that includes in terms of resolution.

Well, I guess since we are entitled to our opinions, I think you need to listen more to other DAPs.

The 300 Max doesn’t even get close, no matter which transducer or setting I use. Ergo, it’s gone and the SP2000 stays.

Are you using your selling history to attempt to validate your subjective opinions? Hmm. I see. Unlike you though, I do accept your opinions, regardless of how they are derived. Good for you, glad you're happy with what you have.

The R2R DACs are inferior in all technicalities including resolution, though the ways in which they are inferior may be quite pleasing.

Did you just stereotyped R2R DAC by blanketing that they are inferior. Wow. That I have a problem with. May I ask what R2R players have you heard to deem the entire R2R category inferior?

100% agree, opinions of others are equally valid and legit, with this I don't mean that other daps are crap, there are many awsome sounding daps, the thing is IMO the sp2000 sits among the very best, and this being truth even after almost 3 years after the release, is something special

If I had led you or anyone to think that I have declared one or another DAP crap or awesome, even though you wouldn't find any such words in my writing, I would like state unequivocally here that is not my intention. The SP2K is as good now as it was when it launched and better than most DAPs in the market at that time. Now, there are more DAPs that are better by different parameters and standards. That does not make it worse, or crap. It just is what it is. You can disagree with that, but again, I urge you to listen with an open mind (and ears), perhaps you will hear something different, maybe more. And if in the end, you still think the SP2K is the best, your wallet and I are happy for you.