[JasonNYC]

Thank you for the fast response! As I have said the whitelist is more trouble than it's worth and sometimes even whitelisted apps have issues, like Amazon Music in particular which crashes with genre searches and only sometimes plays in high resolution. I put the blame on Amazon in this case...

I agree with you 100%

 

[Inju]

I agree with you 100%

I wouldn't mind the white list if the apps were changed in some way to make them more efficient. I was keeping my fingers crossed that V-Link would play with the display off. Also why does V-Link crash when I log into my YouTube account?

For Amazon music I did find some Hi Res music would not play at the highest bit rate and was confused by this. I use Cold Play Yellow and Prince Purple Rain as test tracks. I was trying to figure out the inconsistency and found when it was playing the highest resolution audio tracks was when the tracks were downloaded in the highest quality, when not downloaded it would play in lower qualities.

Also Jason, did you see that tracks in 360 audio do not work on Amazon Music. Also tell your team not to just focus on audio streaming apps, but apps like Wavelet given that the SR35 doesn't let you actually choose an EXACT frequency, crippling the PEQ. Wavelet would solve this problem for people into PEQ for different headsets.

 

[558698]

I wouldn't mind the white list if the apps were changed in some way to make them more efficient. I was keeping my fingers crossed that V-Link would play with the display off. Also why does V-Link crash when I log into my YouTube account?

For Amazon music I did find some Hi Res music would not play at the highest bit rate and was confused by this. I use Cold Play Yellow and Prince Purple Rain as test tracks. I was trying to figure out the inconsistency and found when it was playing the highest resolution audio tracks was when the tracks were downloaded in the highest quality, when not downloaded it would play in lower qualities.

Also Jason, did you see that tracks in 360 audio do not work on Amazon Music. Also tell your team not to just focus on audio streaming apps, but apps like Wavelet given that the SR35 doesn't let you actually choose an EXACT frequency, crippling the PEQ. Wavelet would solve this problem for people into PEQ for different headsets.

I reckon that Amazon’s spatial audio formats aren’t supported because it requires special licensing, perhaps even components, to work. Much in the vein of MQA.

I for one strongly hope Dolby Atmos in particular forever remains unsupported on these DAPs, because devices that support it tend to do so at the cost of regular stereo audio quality. (At least that’s what I’ve heard.)

 

[Inju]

One more thing, tell them to drop MQA and drop the price

I reckon that Amazon’s spatial audio formats aren’t supported because it requires special licensing, perhaps even components, to work. Much in the vein of MQA.

I for one strongly hope Dolby Atmos in particular forever remains unsupported on these DAPs, because devices that support it tend to do so at the cost of regular stereo audio quality. (At least that’s what I’ve heard.)

Oh, I didn't know that audio devices that support Dolby Atmos have stereo audio quality issues. Can you cite a reference for me so I can read up on this.

In terms of Dolby Atmos, I find it hit and miss on some tracks. Some Dolby Atmos tracks sound better to me once volume matched in terms of placement vs. the sound just being in the middle of my head, for example where I see a drastic difference is Lose You to Love Me by Selena Gomez which places the vocals in a more forward center position then the original track and not as drastic Billie Elish Happier Than Ever, where the background sounds expand. Amazon Music gives you the ability to switch between the two on the fly in the app, just click on where it says Dolby Atmos below the album cover and swipe left and it takes you to the Stereo track. I'm hoping and believe that better tracks have mixing engineers that actually mix these in Dolby Atmos. I tend to believe this is the case because At NAMM and Musikmesse this year a lot of the focus was on Dolby Atmos mixing and the ability of audio interfaces/daws having enough output to handle the vast amount of speakers to mix properly in Dolby Atmos. Most mixing and mastering engineers likely do so on speakers which has natural crossfeed and delay between the left and right channels, which is the biggest drawback on headphones. I don't know if mixing with a Dolby Atmos speaker setup will improve sounds for headphones, given that there will be much more crossfeed/delay between not just two speakers but a multitude of speakers. I'm assuming that Dolby somehow has figured this out for headphone outputs, such as Amazon Music users.

In terms of audio quality, I always found speakers vastly superior to headphones for listening to music, but speakers are vastly inferior in terms of convenience. This is the main reason why I'm actually thinking about Roon as well. Roon has cross feed processing which can be mapped to a specific device (My SR35), but I don't know if there is slight delay processing as well. Though it doesn't sound as good as speakers, it does get closer. Ideally, as I stated in my previous post, mixing and mastering engineers should be mixing two separate tracks, one specific for headphones introducing crossfeed and delay to each channel at the same rate as speakers, and another track for speakers. Here's an interesting article on how we localize of hearing hasn't been figured out. Link

 

[morndewey]

Anyone have SR35 and Shanling M6 ultra on hand for a strictly audio comparison?

 

[F700]

SR35/PA10´s stack. And yes, this sounds truly amazing.

 

[Inju]

SR35/PA10´s stack. And yes, this sounds truly amazing.

The VRM on high gain is nearly the same. What headphone do you have that requires the amp?

 

[F700]

The VRM on high gain is nearly the same. What headphone do you have that requires the amp?

Yes, noticed that yesterday, too. I have some IEMs that require an extra bit of power and even if the SR35 can drive them pretty well, I have to go above 100 to be satisfied and I feel the SR35 is getting in high revs trying to feed them with the required power and control. The PA10 make them sounds bolder, richer, and more accurate in a much more effortless way. The standalone SR35 is a great little DAP, period. The PA10 as an amp, just transforms the SR35. I will use the SR35 with and without the amp, depending on where I use it.

 

[Inju]

Anyone have SR35 and Shanling M6 ultra on hand for a strictly audio comparison?

I don't have the Shanling M6, but if you're local to me I wouldn't mind meeting up so you can hear my SR35.

Yes, noticed that yesterday, too. I have some IEMs that require an extra bit of power and even if the SR35 can drive them pretty well, I have to go above 100 to be satisfied and I feel the SR35 is getting in high revs trying to feed them with the required power and control. The PA10 make them sounds bolder, richer, and more accurate in a much more effortless way. The standalone SR35 is a great little DAP, period. The PA10 as an amp, just transforms the SR35. I will use the SR35 with and without the amp, depending on where I use it.

If you love the sound that's fantastic. I was a bit concerned on this combo because I don't know if the SR35 has a true line out function with a flat frequency response because I believe the line out function on the SR35 is going through the amp section at full volume. While comparing the SR35 vs a Little Dot MK3 and a Drop THX 789, it sat between the two, sounding more like the Drop THX 789 but warmer and smoother, the DAC used is a Antelope Audio Zen Q which uses the same chips as the SR35. Where the Drop THX 789 is crisp and clean, and the Little Dot MK3 is very warm and smooth. Also the SR35 uses the same opamps and components as the Astell & Kern flagship SP3000. If the PA10 is adding some more warmth I would think it would sound more like a tube amp, which some people prefer. I think for my preference, I would pair the PA10 (if it adds warmth) with something like a Qudelix or a BTR7. I suggest using the track Lewis Capaldi, "Wish You the Best". I use this track and listen specifically to the highs on the vocals. The SR35 makes it so it's still clear but does not grate on my ears, the THX 789 just hurts to listen to on this track, and my Little Dot MK3 smooths it out to much. The stock SR35 sound for me is right on for vocal leading tracks. Oh, almost forgot, the headphones used for me are the HD6XX, Crinacle Red for IEMs. If using planars I could see adding more warmth to balance the sound would make sense as well.

 

[Inju]

You know, the more I think about the PA10, if you like the sound, it is a great investment because it will likely never become outdated. Maybe I should pick one up. I've had a Fiio Q1 Mark 2 forever and it just keeps on trucking.

 

[PhenixS1970]

Yes, noticed that yesterday, too. I have some IEMs that require an extra bit of power and even if the SR35 can drive them pretty well, I have to go above 100 to be satisfied and I feel the SR35 is getting in high revs trying to feed them with the required power and control. The PA10 make them sounds bolder, richer, and more accurate in a much more effortless way. The standalone SR35 is a great little DAP, period. The PA10 as an amp, just transforms the SR35. I will use the SR35 with and without the amp, depending on where I use it.

We have some gear in common . How would you rate PA10 against C9 soundwise?

 

[F700]

We have some gear in common . How would you rate PA10 against C9 soundwise?

The PA10 requires some more -in. I am only 10 hours in.

First impressions: the PA10 is not as versatile as the C9. Not a big deal at this price point. A propos price, how come AK came up with such an amp at that price? Typical class A sound and absolute killer built quality. This amp looks and sounds gorgeous.

vs. C9, the PA10 « sounds » maybe a bit narrower in the stage, but hey, the DAP/DAC and most importantly the transducers will make the difference. The C9 digs deeper in your tracks to brings all details in the surface while keeping the signature very musical and effortless. The noise floor is excellent on both devices, the C9 maybe is a bit more silent (to be confirmed within extended comparison).

So far, the PA10 is an affordable and better built C9 (yes, it’s possible). It’s a warmish, full sounding amp, a bit colored, but powerful and able to go very loud without distortion, with a « how much can you take »-philosophy. Pairing is key with the PA10, much less with the C9 (versatility).

The PA10 never gets warm btw. The chassis of the amp has been built with great care.

Honeymoon phase at play, I am enjoying the PA10 with my SR35 as I used to get goosebumps back in 2017 with the FiiO X5III/FiiO A5 stack. Not the same era, we have been a long way, but the old school concept of stacking gears together is dope to me.

More elements of comparison in due time.

 

[PhenixS1970]

The PA10 requires some more -in. I am only 10 hours in.

First impressions: the PA10 is not as versatile as the C9. Not a big deal at this price point. A propos price, how come AK came up with such an amp at that price? Typical class A sound and absolute killer built quality. This amp looks and sounds gorgeous.

vs. C9, the PA10 « sounds » maybe a bit narrower in the stage, but hey, the DAP/DAC and most importantly the transducers will make the difference. The C9 digs deeper in your tracks to brings all details in the surface while keeping the signature very musical and effortless. The noise floor is excellent on both devices, the C9 maybe is a bit more silent (to be confirmed within extended comparison).

So far, the PA10 is an affordable and better built C9 (yes, it’s possible). It’s a warmish, full sounding amp, a bit colored, but powerful and able to go very loud without distortion, with a « how much can you take »-philosophy. Pairing is key with the PA10, much less with the C9 (versatility).

The PA10 never gets warm btw. The chassis of the amp has been built with great care.

Honeymoon phase at play, I am enjoying the PA10 with my SR35 as I used to get goosebumps back in 2017 with the FiiO X5III/FiiO A5 stack. Not the same era, we have been a long way, but the old school concept of stacking gears together is dope to me.

More elements of comparison in due time.

Thank you very much for these detailed first impressions. I am so curious about this little amp that I have one on order now .

 

[Inju]

Annoying couple of things about the SR35 that should be fixed and really there is no excuse for it not to have these already.

1. Addition of a lock button function when you turn off the screen. I don't know how many times I've pressed the buttons while the device is in my pocket.

2. The wheel lock button, when toggled doesn't work or I have no idea how to lock the screen because the manual, when you search for lock, doesn't tell you how. If someone knows how to lock the screen let me know. If they don't have a lock screen function, then this is not a good sign, given that the older SR25 mark 2 instruction also included this non existing function and shows AK not even having the time to implement functions that are in the manual for there older DAPs. If there is in fact no lock screen function this is just sloppy for an high end audiophile company especially when there is a lock knob function in the software that only works when you lock the screen.

3. Needs a rotate screen function. How is there no rotate screen function except in car mode? And the most annoying thing, the car mode allows you to rotate your screen in every direction but the most useful, that of reversing it completely so you can have your wires facing down. Also why is rotating the screen only available for car mode? This is ridiculous.

My opinion, the hardware of Astell & Kern is amazing, however whoever is in charge of quality of life/usability aspects needs to take the humble pill, watch reviewers and listen to their user base and fix issues that really shouldn't be here and is a firmware fix. I mean I have an old Sony CD player with a slide hold button so you don't accidentally press the buttons.

 

[RCracer777]

Anyone have SR35 and Shanling M6 ultra on hand for a strictly audio comparison?

While I own neither, I have tried both in my search for a replacement DAP and long story short, the M6 Ultra is on another level compared to the SR35.

Don't get me wrong the SR35 isn't a bad DAP and it's arguably the best bang for buck Astell&Kern out there. With exception to the SOC and RAM it's fairly equal in spec to the M6 Ultra. But it doesn't compete with it in terms of the pure sound quality. It's more along the line of the FiiO M11Plus (ESS) in terms of sound quality.
The M6 Ultra is more dynamic, has beter bass control and more treble definition than the SR35. While it's smoother than my X7 Mk.II, it is not as smooth as the SR35, which I find is too smooth in the treble at times for my preference. When it comes to technical aspects the detail retrieval of the M6 Ultra is better and the soundstage is double the size of the SR35. Which has a rather small soundstage for a high end DAP, it's more on par with mid-range DAP's.

The impression below is compared against my personal FiiO X7 Mk.II as the store that had the SR35 didn't have any brands other than Astell&Kern. As I did also compare the M6 Ultra against the X7 Mk.II using the same IEM's, it's quite easy to compare them even though it was on different days in different stores. As an analogy, the M6 Ultra is like having a 8K HDR display to the 4K HDR of the SR35 and the DCI 4K of the X7 Mk.II.

I did like my time with the A&Norma SR35 as it's a interesting device. The angled screen is really intuitive when you hold it, the build is great and the sound is rich and smooth without losing detail compared to the X7 Mk.II. The Quad DAC setup probably helps here and switching it to a dual DAC mode it becomes even more laid back for long fatigue free sessions and as a bonus it does give it does improve the already good battery life to about 18h which is way better than the 5~6h that my X7 Mk.II gets.

As the reason for my need to replace the X7 Mk.II is the busted volume control, the quite frankly insane build quality of the SR35 is a welcome reassurance that it probably won't happen on the on the SR35. Power wise the SR35 doesn't disappoint either, it drove my PT2022 earbuds (275Ω, 112dB/mW) on low gain @135/150 and high gain @105/150 from the SE. My X7 Mk.II can only do it on high gain @112/120 SE. With the X7 Mk.II having 270mW@32Ω (17mW@300Ω) from the SE, it shows that the A&K claim of 3,1Vrms (Theoretical 300mW@32Ω or 30mW@300Ω) is probably very close to true figures.

The performance however is nothing amazing, while it boots way faster than the X7 Mk.II which is agonizingly slow these days, it's not really faster during general use. It's not slow and usable for a DAP in my opinion but the M6 Ultra is considerably faster. I did however encounter a bottleneck on the SR35 at one point when trying to load a 24/384 FLAC file from a SD card and it took about 10 sec to start playing when the X7 Mk.II starts playing after just 1 sec. Probably some buffering that takes place in the SR35 but still annoying none the less. The M6 Ultra started playing this file immediately from the same SD card FYI.

But in the end it's more of a side grade than a upgrade to the X7 Mk.II. I do prefer it's sound signature and it's considerably more powerful outputs, having only about half of the soundstage of the X7 Mk.II and being marginally faster, it does leave me wanting more. But I'm aware that the better build does come at a cost and I don't think it's a bad deal for it's price, which is weird to say about a Astell&Kern which are usually overpriced as hell.

The A&Norma SR35 is a good DAP but when most of the direct competition is excellent, it will always seem lacking in comparison.
When the A&Norma line gets a good SOC I'll probably pick one up as I've liked it every time I listened to one regardless of generation, but at the moment is out of the running when it comes to replacing the X7 Mk.II as it's competition is a few steps ahead and I don't have the funds to get multiple devices.

It's between the FiiO M15s and M6 Ultra for me ATM. Both of which are great but with different (complimentary) flavors and while I think both are in the ballpark of the SP3000, the M15s might just be slightly better than it. Not on build quality but on sound quality, although the differences are really, really small.
I do have to go from memory here as the M15s and M6 Ultra I tested last week and the SP3000 was last November during a trade show.
No I don't care about those SP3000 fanboys I probably just pissed off.