[cantara256]

 
It will measure dead flat with the EQ turned off so no it's not house EQ'd. Turning on the EQ circuit and leaving it flat will add additional in line buffering and circuits which you don't want in that scenario. Flat is not off but off is flat.

 Here's what innerfidelity found when measuring an ak240 which I would think has a similar 'house sound'.
"As you can see switching between a FLAT setting and turning the EQ off gives a pretty healthy (~3dB) increase in gain, but does not show any significant changes in EQ."
 
Here's an actual response curve with EQ off:
 

Here's the original article: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/revolutionary-astellkern-ak240-hi-rez-portable-media-player#sM5Vp4tb7SdIeHrm.97
 
So... this seems to imply line out is real and doesn't modify the original bits. Goobvibes, what's your take on the differences people claim to hear between the various AK models using line out through a Hugo? If line out is unaltered it should all be identical right?

 

[Uncle E1]

  Here's the original article: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/revolutionary-astellkern-ak240-hi-rez-portable-media-player#sM5Vp4tb7SdIeHrm.97
 
So... this seems to imply line out is real and doesn't modify the original bits. Goobvibes, what's your take on the differences people claim to hear between the various AK models using line out through a Hugo? If line out is unaltered it should all be identical right?

 
sorry, do you mean optical out to hugo instead?

 

[cantara256]

   
sorry, do you mean optical out to hugo instead?

Yep.

 

[goodvibes]

  Here's the original article: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/revolutionary-astellkern-ak240-hi-rez-portable-media-player#sM5Vp4tb7SdIeHrm.97
 
So... this seems to imply line out is real and doesn't modify the original bits. Goobvibes, what's your take on the differences people claim to hear between the various AK models using line out through a Hugo? If line out is unaltered it should all be identical right?

Hardly. I suppose you're referring to dig out and of course they aren't all identical sounding or you couldn't hear differences in bit perfect FWs that all measure the same. I've never been of the opinion that the same files sound the same from the dig outs of different players and I'm not getting into an endless 'bit perfect' argument over it. From a measurement standpoint, most daps should sound the same as their analog measurements and bit perfectness are below accepted levels of difference recognition and we know that's not the case. We don't know everything nor can measure everything pertinent to this outcome....imo

 

[cantara256]

Hardly. I suppose you're referring to dig out and of course they aren't all identical sounding or you couldn't hear differences in bit perfect FWs that all measure the same. I've never been of the opinion that the same files sound the same from the dig outs of different players and I'm not getting into an endless 'bit perfect' argument over it. From a measurement standpoint, most daps should sound the same as their analog measurements and bit perfectness are below accepted levels of difference recognition and we know that's not the case. We don't know everything nor can measure everything pertinent to this outcome....imo

How would you explain the differences then? I'm not looking for an argument, I'm fairly new at this game and am genuinely curious.

 

[goodvibes]

As many ways as you could imagine but degree seems rather dependant on circumstances and individual.

 

[mysony1]

Hi all,

With the new firmware upgrade to 1.11 any comments?

 

[Juan Virgo]

Reasons to return ak380:
Main reason is 1, sound quality. It really is no improvement over ZX2 or P1 or indeed any DAP with Hugo.
It's more hype than evolution.
 

 
Also , people are talking on how it will match they jeans... from this I can understand that they using it , probably "on the go"...
I pretty sure, when you are "on the go", the details/resolution/bla-bla-bla from ak380, are overkill , and you will simply not get them while "on-the-go"...
Personalty, when I "on the go" (gym/city/etc), I can't find differences as you (I sold the ak240).
Can't concentrate on music... music is only background while walking/jumping/running...
 
To get all the details and to enjoy the music for real "you" need to listen to it in relax state... A long flight, at silent nights... and so...
And for this sessions, the Hugo is just much better and much cheaper.
 
 
 
p.s.: What is P1?

 

[Uncle E1]

   
Also , people are talking on how it will match they jeans... from this I can understand that they using it , probably "on the go"...
I pretty sure, when you are "on the go", the details/resolution/bla-bla-bla from ak380, are overkill , and you will simply not get them while "on-the-go"...
Personalty, when I "on the go" (gym/city/etc), I can't find differences as you (I sold the ak240).
Can't concentrate on music... music is only background while walking/jumping/running...
 
To get all the details and to enjoy the music for real "you" need to listen to it in relax state... A long flight, at silent nights... and so...
And for this sessions, the Hugo is just much better and much cheaper.
 
 
 
p.s.: What is P1?

 

 

[piercer]

So I don't normally think firmware updates make much difference to sound. But listening to 1.11 it sounds like they have taken quality up a notch - wild. Everything sounds even more resolved and bigger!
 
Maybe my ears are just having a good day.

 

[mysony1]

So I don't normally think firmware updates make much difference to sound. But listening to 1.11 it sounds like they have taken quality up a notch - wild. Everything sounds even more resolved and bigger!

Maybe my ears are just having a good day.

Yes, overall more balance then before.

 

[speedracer1]

 
It will measure dead flat with the EQ turned off so no it's not house EQ'd. Turning on the EQ circuit and leaving it flat will add additional in line buffering and circuits which you don't want in that scenario. Flat is not off but off is flat.

 Here's what innerfidelity found when measuring an ak240 which I would think has a similar 'house sound'.
"As you can see switching between a FLAT setting and turning the EQ off gives a pretty healthy (~3dB) increase in gain, but does not show any significant changes in EQ."
 
Here's an actual response curve with EQ off:
 

 

 
It will measure dead flat with the EQ turned off so no it's not house EQ'd. Turning on the EQ circuit and leaving it flat will add additional in line buffering and circuits which you don't want in that scenario. Flat is not off but off is flat.

 Here's what innerfidelity found when measuring an ak240 which I would think has a similar 'house sound'.
"As you can see switching between a FLAT setting and turning the EQ off gives a pretty healthy (~3dB) increase in gain, but does not show any significant changes in EQ."
 
Here's an actual response curve with EQ off:
 

 
 

 
Hardly. I suppose you're referring to dig out and of course they aren't all identical sounding or you couldn't hear differences in bit perfect FWs that all measure the same. I've never been of the opinion that the same files sound the same from the dig outs of different players and I'm not getting into an endless 'bit perfect' argument over it. From a measurement standpoint, most daps should sound the same as their analog measurements and bit perfectness are below accepted levels of difference recognition and we know that's not the case. We don't know everything nor can measure everything pertinent to this outcome....imo

goodvibes,
 
Yes and I'm not disputing the "frequency response" curves for all three settings i.e. Pro, Off and Flat... However a +3 dB increase in "gain" is an order of magnitude of power output I think that's 10X.  I also notice when switching between Eq set to the default "Off" vs. "Flat." and what I'm coining as the "AK house sound" that their is a "collapse" in the depth of sound stage and a change with the AK 240 and 380 as they both become more "mid-forward". with the "Eq set to the default "OFF  position.  this is my expirence listening to various equipment from the AK player connected to the Cord Hugo via optical cable driving my HE-1000, HD-800 or JH Layla's.  I also agree that "not all things we hear can be reliably measured" so with that I still stand that their are differences that I hear (or they wouldn't have the settings available for modification in the first place) and the AK house sound has it's own benefits/trade-off's.
Respectfully,
-Speed 

 

[goodvibes]

Engaging EQ adds more buffers, dither, path etc to be able to accomplish that task. Gain is dropped to avoid digital clipping when a cursor is adjusted up. Any change in sound on EQ flat settings will generally be detrimental vs no EQ. If your files/phones are a bit forward or etched you may prefer a very slight dulling or perhaps it is just better by happenchance but that I would have some doubts about. I never said that there was no audible difference, just that it's not 'house sound' or intentional. There's a reason that I don't use EQ or even gapless when being critical. Any difference is not an intended one and AK's applications are better and with less sig than most. Being resolved has it's drawbacks as well. Subtle changes become less subtle. 'Pro EQ' does actually change the frequency response intentionally. That's the only 'house sound' that's intended to deviate from neutral.

 

[piercer]

  Engaging EQ adds more buffers, dither, etc to be able to accomplish that task. Gain is dropped to avoid digital clipping when a cursor is adjusted up. Any change in sound on EQ flat settings will generally be a degradation of quality. I never said that there was no audible difference. There's a reason that I don't use EQ or even gapless when being critical. any difference is just not an intended one and AK's applications are better and more subtle than most. Being resolved has it's drawbacks as well. Subtle changes become less subtle. 'Pro EQ' does actually change the frequency response intentionally. That's the only 'house sound' that's intended to deviate from neutral.

 
I thought the AK380 used a DSP on the raw digital data before it hit the DAC
 
http://www.astellnkern.com/eng/htm/ak380/ak380_feature01.asp
 
How does that affect what you said?

 

[goodvibes]

Beats me. It could aid the EQ if the dithering is integrated with an increased word length for the V control etc but I have no idea how they are doing either. I haven't heard the 380 so my comments are far from absolute but I know that AK is not trying to change the sound between EQ off and flat EQ. I also don't think it's a big deal if there is an extremely minor change in sig when switching on EQ. You're EQing anyway and if you happen to prefer it on,

.
 
I just checked the link. Looks like EQ is separate DSP. Likely using 32bit float and some dither to not drop bits or noticeably increase noise on up to 24 bit material.