[CharlyBrown]

If Spotify hifi comes out and can rival Tidal for sound quality I’ll be jumping ship real fast.

I am using both. Spotify is really cool, especially for electronic music and I adore their canvas feature. Still, I’ve come to like the Tidal suggestions. They are no good for electronic but for everything else... I would have a hard time leaving Tidal right now.

 

[Tristy]

I am using both. Spotify is really cool, especially for electronic music and I adore their canvas feature. Still, I’ve come to like the Tidal suggestions. They are no good for electronic but for everything else... I would have a hard time leaving Tidal right now.

Has Spotify come out with their hifi / hq subscription yet? (I’m not sure what they plan on designating it)

 

[JasonNYC]

Has Spotify come out with their hifi / hq subscription yet? (I’m not sure what they plan on designating it)

Press release, info on Spotify website and media coverage all just say "later this year" in select markets.

https://newsroom.spotify.com/2021-02-22/five-things-to-know-about-spotify-hifi/

 

[fmkuz]

New model for A&Futura line: SE180

https://www.astellnkern.com/eng/con...31960&spos=1&tcg=&tpos=0&dpos=1&gcode=SC36400

@JasonNYC The new firmware feature on the SE180 will be available for the SE200 in the near future (BT Sink, navegation bar, etc)?

 

[CharlyBrown]

Has Spotify come out with their hifi / hq subscription yet? (I’m not sure what they plan on designating it)

Just as Jason pointed out - not yet. I am using Tidal Hi-Fi & Spotify regular now.

 

[Tristy]

New model for A&Futura line: SE180

https://www.astellnkern.com/eng/con...31960&spos=1&tcg=&tpos=0&dpos=1&gcode=SC36400

@JasonNYC The new firmware feature on the SE180 will be available for the SE200 in the near future (BT Sink, navegation bar, etc)?

Don’t count on it... not until much further on down the line anyway. From past experience I think AK likes to capitalise on these new features as USP’s to sell the new product before adding them to their current line up.

 

[CharlyBrown]

Don’t count on it... not until much further on down the line anyway. From past experience I think AK likes to capitalise on these new features as USP’s to sell the new product before adding them to their current line up.

Really? Even the software-features like Navigation bar? Well, that would be more than sad and definitely a reason not to buy from them anymore.

 

[Tristy]

Really? Even the software-features like Navigation bar? Well, that would be more than sad and definitely a reason not to buy from them anymore.

I’d be happy to be proven wrong though!...

 

[ILyaX]

Unfortunately the embedded Deezer app also doesn't log in.

Discontinued support of tidal and deezer in older models, even flagships as 380 and 320, is rather disappointing as well.

 

[CharlyBrown]

Unfortunately the embedded Deezer app also doesn't log in.

Discontinued support of tidal and deezer in older models, even flagships as 380 and 320, is rather disappointing as well.

I’ll second that. It just doesn’t give me a good feeling about such a premium device. Still, 4-5 years useability is rather acceptable in todays digital world. I think I’ll keep my device until it falls apart but I am not sure if I’ll ever go A&K again.

I am seriously disappointed by their software support. Now it will take until May until Tidal stock works again. Real updates apart from critical bug fixing are not to be expected like the underlying Android for longer sideloaded app support.

I hope Jason manages it to convince A&K to at least publish a list of working app versions...

 

[NCUS]

I hope A&K is getting money from Tidal and Deezer for embedding their apps, which helps fund R&D. Otherwise, this Tidal relationship seems like a loser for customers and a loser for them.

 

[Tristy]

Really? Even the software-features like Navigation bar? Well, that would be more than sad and definitely a reason not to buy from them anymore.

So after some research it looks like the newly released SE180 also blows the SE200 away in terms of SNR (125db on the SE200 vs 129db on the SE180), its femto clock figures (200 femto seconds vs 800 on the SE180), its bluetooth connectivity (v4.2 vs v5 on the SE180), and includes a 4.4 connection and a bigger battery (3,700mAh on the SE200 vs 3,800 on the SE180)? Alongside the better screen and the ceramic back at a lower price ... can't help but feel a little shafted here haha. Good job I got the SE200 in a good deal else I'd be pretty sour tbh. Is the flagship AKM DAC really worth that much of a price hike? You could practically get the SE180 with its SEM 1 card with a single desktop level ESS DAC (ES9038PRO used in the SE100 and in the Kann Cube) as well as the SEM 2 module which has the dual DAC AKM's used in the SP1000 I believe (AK4497EQ) for the same retail price as the SE200.... with added versatility and longevity thanks to the 4.4mm connection and the promise of new DAC cards to come. Theres no indication on the number of cores the SE180's CPU has though.

It's really starting to sound like the SE180 is below the SE200 only in it's model name designation!

 

[CharlyBrown]

So after some research it looks like the newly released SE180 also blows the SE200 away in terms of SNR (125db on the SE200 vs 129db on the SE180), its femto clock figures (200 femto seconds vs 800 on the SE180), its bluetooth connectivity (v4.2 vs v5 on the SE180), and includes a 4.4 connection and a bigger battery (3,700mAh on the SE200 vs 3,800 on the SE180)? Alongside the better screen and the ceramic back at a lower price ... can't help but feel a little shafted here haha. Good job I got the SE200 in a good deal else I'd be pretty sour tbh. Is the flagship AKM DAC really worth that much of a price hike? You could practically get the SE180 with its SEM 1 card with a single desktop level ESS DAC (ES9038PRO used in the SE100 and in the Kann Cube) as well as the SEM 2 module which has the dual DAC AKM's used in the SP1000 I believe (AK4497EQ) for the same retail price as the SE200.... with added versatility and longevity thanks to the 4.4mm connection and the promise of new DAC cards to come. Theres no indication on the number of cores the SE180's CPU.... It's really starting to sound like the SE180 is below the SE200 only in it's model name designation!

Well, the two of us already had the discussion around SQ differences between the DAC chips. For me, there is not much difference. Still I like having both options because I like having more battery life (ESS) as well as more power (AKM). The later when I’m in the mood to listen to my full size headphones. Honestly, I even plug my ODIN to the AKM side, although not needed. Just for the good feeling to feed them with max power

4.4mm is a nice addition and will become industry standard. Personally, I own two EE IEMS, both with 2.5mm and for my full size headphones, I own a very nice DD adapter that plugs in both ports 2.5 & 3.5 together for stability, power / sound comes from the 2.5mm. So, don’t care.

Forget about the increased battery by 100mAh, that’s neglectable. Will it charge as fast as SE200? The later is extremely fast imo.

The better screen is definitely a plus, still the lower res of the SE200 has also advantages as it is already sharp enough (well, for me at least) and the new one will consume more battery. Plus, Canvas looks better on the SE200. I compared with my iPhone 11Pro and Spotify canvas looks worse with ultra high resolution screens

Least important, but still... SE200 looks better and is less error prone due to the lack of moveable replacement parts like the modules.

No need to envy the little brother, in my opinion.

 

[Tristy]

Well, the two of us already had the discussion around SQ differences between the DAC chips. For me, there is not much difference. Still I like having both options because I like having more battery life (ESS) as well as more power (AKM). The later when I’m in the mood to listen to my full size headphones. Honestly, I even plug my ODIN to the AKM side, although not needed. Just for the good feeling to feed them with max power

4.4mm is a nice addition and will become industry standard. Personally, I own two EE IEMS, both with 2.5mm and for my full size headphones, I own a very nice DD adapter that plugs in both ports 2.5 & 3.5 together for stability, power / sound comes from the 2.5mm. So, don’t care.

Forget about the increased battery by 100mAh, that’s neglectable. Will it charge as fast as SE200? The later is extremely fast imo.

The better screen is definitely a plus, still the lower res of the SE200 has also advantages as it is already sharp enough (well, for me at least) and the new one will consume more battery. Plus, Canvas looks better on the SE200. I compared with my iPhone 11Pro and Spotify canvas looks worse with ultra high resolution screens

Least important, but still... SE200 looks better and is less error prone due to the lack of moveable replacement parts like the modules.

No need to envy the little brother, in my opinion.

Yeah as I believe we spoke about, the differences between DAC chips is negligible when you get to the upper echelons with sound quality no doubt being down to implementation more than anything else. Obviously the amplification is going to be a big factor (which the SE180 also looks to have an enhanced section of) and I'd imagine that the Femto clock makes more of a difference than anything from what I've read regarding the SA700 and Original Kann.

The point I was more trying to make is that this is a product from the same brand and product line that has been released less than a year later than its supposedly 'superior' sibling product, yet it has better specs objectively. With iPhones we have come to expect it but we aren't in the smartphone market and at least iPhone's yearly iterations are mostly aesthetic or superficial at best.

This doesn't give consumers the best impression if you ask me and it's pretty poor business practice. I also witnessed this somewhat when I purchased the Kann Cube with the release of the Alpha shortly after. Although slight variations in terms of DAC chips etc the concept and value proposition had basically been the same with the later release having the additional "benefits" of a 4.4mm connection and a smaller footprint. If given the choice with both players being released at the same time between the Kann Cube and the Kann Alpha, and again with the SE200 and SE180, I would have chosen the later releases for my needs case. This is the point I am trying to get at more than anything.

It makes existing customers feel like guinea pigs... AK had tested consumers desire for a player with a 4.4mm connection and no doubt deduced from sales figures that there had been a want for such a player. They also tested consumers desire for a multiple DAC player with the introduction of the SE200 to a similar result. Shortly after (not even a year) they decide to release a player that would have no doubt been on the drawing board at the same time as the release of the SE200 (no product design process can be accomplished in what... 8 months? I believe the SE200 was released last August), making SE200 owners basically market research for AK.

But yeah... at least the SE200 looks better than the SE180... for all thats worth.

EDIT: And as @Skullar mentioned in the official SE180 thread... what's to say that AK won't release DAC cards in the future with a single AKM4499 chip and the same ESS setup that is found in the SE200, rendering it completely obsolete??

 

[CharlyBrown]

I know what you mean but I am sure that the future SE180 buyers are going to me guinea pigs as well. The SE180 will also be a MVP regarding the software, it will pretty much have the same drawbacks, sideloaded apps, quirky baked in A&K Tidal, slow / bad / “if at all“ customer support.

I personally would only envy the SE180 if it solved these problems. That would *** me off.

The tiny hardware improvements (if any) don’t make me care. Femto clock. I have it in my RME ADI DAC FS (FS = Femto Second). I don’t hear any difference vs. anything else. It’s marketing hype, as always. Just like the rest like interchangeable modules. Hype train, I’m not gonna ride it.

Instead of releasing new DAPs every 6 - 12 months they should make much more pace improving the software and support.