[ask] Advice, RE-zero vs Fischer DBA-02 vs Ety hf5
Mar 4, 2011 at 7:04 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 15

bigheadhifi

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Hi guys im  a new guy here in head-fi, and i need some advices. I've been collecting some low end earphones, and i thought that im ready to go higher. I like some clarity and tight bass from my earphone, i have some choices in my mind,, but  i just cant make up my mind, they are:
 
1. Re-ZERO (LE)
2. Fischer DBA-02
3.Ety hf5
(4. or maybe phonak ?)
 
I believe they have sound signature that are almost the same to one another, and suits my taste. (correct me if im wrong :) ), so i need some advice of which one should i get? and i hope that all of the audio gurus here in head-fi could help me choose, and maybe share some of their thought of those earphones.
 
thank you guys.. (sorry for my insufficient english)
 
 
 
Mar 4, 2011 at 12:42 PM Post #3 of 15
I have the HF5.  It is easy to buy, unlike the DBA-02 (unless you find a used set).  Also, with the HF5, you don't have to worry about the balanced-to-normal adapter the RE-ZERO requires for your player/source.  And several users/reviews put the SQ of the HF5 very near the DBA-02, and as good or better than the RE-ZERO.
 
I haven't heard eithere the DBA-02 or RE-Zero, but did have the RE-0 for a long time.  I was never really satisfied with the lack of bass body -- bass extension (how low it goes) was great, but the body/fullness/punch just was not there -- you could hear the bass, but not feel it.  HF5 has more bass fullness and punch while still maintaining the great level of details that the RE series gives.
 
Mar 4, 2011 at 2:13 PM Post #4 of 15
I would go with HF5, if you are looking for the most balanced overall sound. RE0 with an amp is also very balanced, but only with an amp. I haven't heard the RE-ZERO, but it should be similar to RE0 except that it is easier to drive. DBA-02 is not really better than RE0 with a good amp or the HF5, just different. It is not as balanced sounding as RE0 or HF5, but may be more fun if you will like its specific coloration - it has a pretty bright treble, but not harsh, and light and airy mids which are sweetened a bit. They are fuller and more forward than neutral. RE0 and HF5 are more laid back and accurate in my opinion. However, I find the Etymotics really involving in the mids, despite being generally neutral. RE0, on the other hand, can sound a bit bland and boring at times. HF5 will also have tighter, deeper bass. RE0 will win on treble extension. The choice between RE0 and HF5 depends on personal preference. If you like a dryer, sharper sound, go with HF5. If you prefer a smoother, sound with a bit more body and treble extension, but at the expense of some low bass extension, some bass quality and texture in the midrange, go with RE0 or the ZERO. RE0 will need an amp to shine, but the ZERO should be fine without one.
 
Mar 4, 2011 at 2:18 PM Post #5 of 15


Quote:
I have the HF5.  It is easy to buy, unlike the DBA-02 (unless you find a used set).  Also, with the HF5, you don't have to worry about the balanced-to-normal adapter the RE-ZERO requires for your player/source.  And several users/reviews put the SQ of the HF5 very near the DBA-02, and as good or better than the RE-ZERO.
 
I haven't heard eithere the DBA-02 or RE-Zero, but did have the RE-0 for a long time.  I was never really satisfied with the lack of bass body -- bass extension (how low it goes) was great, but the body/fullness/punch just was not there -- you could hear the bass, but not feel it.  HF5 has more bass fullness and punch while still maintaining the great level of details that the RE re .  The

 
DBA-02 are available all throughout, DGaudiobase, MusicaAcoustics...
 
 
Mar 4, 2011 at 2:30 PM Post #6 of 15
I'm going to cosign what the others said. In my (very minimal) experience, I would say HF5s are your best bet. This is going off of my memory from trying a friend's though. 
 
Mar 4, 2011 at 2:34 PM Post #7 of 15
Mar 4, 2011 at 2:51 PM Post #8 of 15


Quote:
... but never in stock. lol
 


Nah, MusicaAcoustics has them in stock; I just got a pair there.
 
I haven't tried the others but these are quite nice. The bass does not have the impact of dynamics but the clarity more than makes up for it, considering you can EQ the bass. (BBE makes it sound extra nice.) Try to audition the HF5 if you can! The three are so similar that your choice of music will probably make the biggest difference.
 
 
Mar 4, 2011 at 2:58 PM Post #9 of 15
Quote:
Nah, MusicaAcoustics has them in stock; I just got a pair there.
 
I haven't tried the others but these are quite nice. The bass does not have the impact of dynamics but the clarity more than makes up for it, considering you can EQ the bass. (BBE makes it sound extra nice.) Try to audition the HF5 if you can! The three are so similar that your choice of music will probably make the biggest difference.

++ on this. For smooth jazz with acoustic guitars RE0 amped is the best because it is the most delicate and smoothest. For classical and other instrumental as well as rock, blues and any music that has a lot of electric guitars in it HF5 will be the best overall because it has the most lively sound in the mids with the most accurate timbre. For electronic music, DBA-02 may be the best option due to its full, yet forward and lively sound with good mid bass punch, great separation and soundstage.
 
 
 
Mar 4, 2011 at 3:22 PM Post #11 of 15
Quote:
How is the RE0 more balanced than the DBA02?  


RE0 is more neutral, more laid back, has a more even bass response (DBA-02 has a bit of mid bass emphasis IMO), and a less aggressive, but better quality treble. That is RE0 out of good quality warm source and preferably amped. RE0 is more delicate and smoother than DBA-02 as well. DBA-02 does win in speed, separation and soundstage. For smooth jazz, RE0 wins hands down out of any source IMO. For other genres, DBA-02 generally sounds better than unamped RE0, but amped RE0 has more potential IMO. Now, I don't know how DBA-02 will grow with amping, but I have yet to hear a multi driver IEM that scales well.
 
Mar 4, 2011 at 3:38 PM Post #12 of 15


Quote:
RE0 is more neutral, more laid back, has a more even bass response (DBA-02 has a bit of mid bass emphasis IMO), and a less aggressive, but better quality treble. That is RE0 out of good quality warm source and preferably amped. RE0 is more delicate and smoother than DBA-02 as well. DBA-02 does win in speed, separation and soundstage. For smooth jazz, RE0 wins hands down out of any source IMO. For other genres, DBA-02 generally sounds better than unamped RE0, but amped RE0 has more potential IMO. Now, I don't know how DBA-02 will grow with amping, but I have yet to hear a multi driver IEM that scales well.


That is a very comprehensive definition of 'balanced' which strikes me as a more preferred sense of refinement actually.  So let's call it semantics.  Monster Coppers are balanced, so are HJE900s, D7000s and everything else that is neutral and flat.  All neutral phones are balanced but not all balanced phones are neutral.  In the simplest sense of the word the DBA sounds more neutral and flatter over a larger FR range than the RE0 to my ears.  I don't consider warmth, PRaT, smoothness, etc.  Bass falls through the floor much earlier than the DBA and any other IEM I have ever heard.  That was w/ a class A amp, albeit a Hippo Gumstick.  
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  BA's can scale btw.  I prefer it from my Arrow over the Clip+ HO alone.  So that's my interpretation anyway. 
 
As for potential, I don't know what exists in the world that can give the RE0's bass the proper boost to make it balanced.  Perhaps setting 'II' on my Arrow, not sure.  If like the DBA but want a more refined sound I recommend the 601/602 NOS DAC.  Honestly I think the DBA is just very transparent to revealing the digital nature of a lot of material but that's another controversy for another thread.
 
 
Mar 4, 2011 at 3:58 PM Post #13 of 15
Well, DBA-02 is pretty refined and super detailed, but it lacks finesse of a good dynamic driver. Most if not all armatures I tried are like that to some extent. May be an armature vs. dynamics thing. But I did hear a few BAs that do have a sense of delicacy fairly similar to that of dynamics, like Ety ER4, Q-jays SE530 and SM3. I value highly those IEMs that can combine the strengths of armatures and dynamic drivers. RE0 sounds very close to a BA in speed and details and FR response, but has that finesse of dynamic drivers and that's why I think its so balanced. The Q-jays and ER4 are also balanced for this reason that they have all the strengths of BAs, but also simulate the delicacy of dynamics very well. DBA-02 just sounds like a BA in the mids and treble, although the bass does sound pretty dynamic. The mids and highs just lack the finesse of dynamic drivers - they are too dry and aggressive IMO.
 
Mar 4, 2011 at 4:58 PM Post #14 of 15


Quote:
Well, DBA-02 is pretty refined and super detailed, but it lacks finesse of a good dynamic driver. Most if not all armatures I tried are like that to some extent. May be an armature vs. dynamics thing. But I did hear a few BAs that do have a sense of delicacy fairly similar to that of dynamics, like Ety ER4, Q-jays SE530 and SM3. I value highly those IEMs that can combine the strengths of armatures and dynamic drivers. RE0 sounds very close to a BA in speed and details and FR response, but has that finesse of dynamic drivers and that's why I think its so balanced. The Q-jays and ER4 are also balanced for this reason that they have all the strengths of BAs, but also simulate the delicacy of dynamics very well. DBA-02 just sounds like a BA in the mids and treble, although the bass does sound pretty dynamic. The mids and highs just lack the finesse of dynamic drivers - they are too dry and aggressive IMO.


Heh, the closest thing I've heard to what you describe is the ES5 in my ears right now.  One reason I decided on the ES5 over the IERM.  I remember all the hype about the SM3 being that final word in BA's w/ the character of dynamics but I didn't get enough of that.  It certainly tried and made a decent effort.  The ES5 is so far doing just what I wanted from the SM3 and then some.  Of course I haven't heard the JH's and need more time before saying anything further on my new arrival.  The W4 would be close but it does some distinctly multi BA things that some actually seem to prefer as a technical aspect.     
 
 
Mar 5, 2011 at 1:35 AM Post #15 of 15
I've used the RE-ZERO, DBA-02, RE0, and PFE but not the HF5, although I've used the ER4S.  My understanding is the HF5 is a modernized looking version of the ER4 using the same drivers but is a little cheaper but not as guaranteed in frequency response balance between the left and right sides like the ER4.
 
I personally like the RE-ZERO a lot.  For $99, it's excellently balanced, natural, and with a good life-like sound.  They are a little forward but likable.  Dynamics, texture, impact, tonality, etc. are all quite good for it's price point.  It has a pretty natural sense of sound.
 
The DBA-02 is quick and aggressive.  The treble energy is quite strong and a little forward due to mild dynamic breadth.  The low end, to my ears and frequency response testing, is a little lean and does roll off a bit early but gradually.  The speed and level of detail is impressive, but the aggressiveness of the treble might be off-putting if you don't want it, although the frequency response through the high end is ruler flat which is very nice.  Personal preference, I wish the low frequency driver was as aggressive and offered the same presence as the high end but the low frequency driver is relatively short in decay and subsequently lean sounding.  The presentation would be better balanced and fuller with a different driver.
 
The RE0 in some ways was like the DBA-02 but darker in signature.  It too is quite fast and small on dynamic range.  The RE0 driver requires a good bit of amperage.  The sound is tighter than the RE-ZERO, not as open or effortless, and the low dynamic range does have the RE0 suffering from a less defined sound stage.  The RE0 sounds quicker, sharper, but less effortless and not as dynamic.  The frequency response is more broad than the RE-ZERO but not as balanced.  I was not a fan of the RE0, but I do like what the RE-ZERO offers.  I think it fixed a lot of key shortcomings of the RE0.  I often recommend simply buying the RE-ZERO over the RE0.
 
The PFE is a very analytical BA earphone.  It has a classic BA sound signature, very clean, short on decay, highly detailed, quick.  It's also extremely dynamic, more so than many other earphones.  The only step up in regard to dynamics is the SE530 which in some ways is a more refined PFE although the response and presentation is a bit different between the two.  How they present the notes are similar though, more so than versus many of the other BA based earphones.  The sound of the PFE is super clean, very detailed, and quite effortless.  It's a very good earphone.  It's like a more fun version of the ER4 but with a cleaner, shorter not giving up thickness, texture, and presence.  The ER4 and subsequenty the HF5 will be a heartier, more textured note than the PFE.  I like texture as it often carries a lot of smaller details within the music.  Not having it sucks out some of the life and realism from the sound.  The dynamics and cleanliness of note of the PFE are incredibly good, but the note is almost too clean.  I would lean you more torwards the HF5 in this case to give you that more robust note, texture, and presence.  This offers a little more meat, substance to the sound and creates a more believable and life-like presentation.
 
I will toss in another earphone ,the Klipsch Custom 3.  This is another BA based earphone, in this case a dual driver earphone versus the single driver HF5 and PFE.  Pricing has been within the $100 range, although it's been discontinued for over a year and is hard to find and find cheap.  The Custom 1 and Custom 2 that Klipsch sold were largely junk, and I don't think people really noticed the Custom 3.  Also the cord on these earphones suck.  It's a thin cord covered by a fiber sheath that tangles super easy.  It's very light though and doesn't really carry microphonics which is nice.  People tend to use it till the cord fails and then convert then to cheap customs (custom mold customs) to which they are a great candidate for.  The sound quality is very good, excellent note thickness, texture, dynamics, level of detail.  Relative to other BA earphones, the notes are thick, but from a general standpoint, they're well bodied and convey a lot of information.  The earphone is quiet well balanced in presentation.  It does roll off a hair on both the bottom and top end but not enough to care and outpacing the single BA earphones anyways.
 
I often try to find earphones that offer a good balance of everything.  I want the earphone to have a broad dynamic range, not too compressed.  I want the earphone to be clean and quick but also thick and textured in note.  I want the speed but also the presence.  I want the earphone to be well balanced in response and presence offering a tonally neutral and natural sound.  I want the frequency response to be well extended, not rolling off too much on the low end losing the deep bass and visceral sense nor losing too much up to and the air and sparkle of the highs.  I like a good mix of everything.  I feel the HF5, Custom 3, and RE-ZERO will all be good candidates.  The others tend to suffer a bit in certain areas and detracts from the overall presentation somewhat.  The others are good for certain reasons, but when we want the total package, we want as complete a package as possible.  We essentially want the earphone to do everything well.  It's hard to pick an actually best product because it depends on personal preference.  All three offer a good mix of everything, but they each have their own sound signatures.  From a personal preference standpoint, I would lean most heavily towards the Custom 3.  The dual driver offers a little broader performance than the HF5 and offers a thicker, more energetic note.  The HF5 is likely a litttle cleaner, brighter, but the Custom 3 offers a more filling presence.  The RE-ZERO is very good though, excellently detailed, a little forwards but natural and with a life-like quality.  It's not as energetic and articulate as the Custom 3 but a little more natural sounding.  The HF5 will be the best built product and quite stylish.  The RE-ZERO looks good but will feel a little cheaper.  The Custom 3 is all plastic and with a thin cord.  It feels less substantial and cheap.  I personally like the very light weight of the cord, but the tangly nature is annoying.  However, you can spend $100 and convert them to a nice set of custom molds later down the road, and it effectively becomes one of the cheapest dual driver custom earphones on the market.  The RE-ZERO is a dynamic and will never be that, and there is little reason to go such a route with the HF5.  The choice between the three will come down to personal preference.
 

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