[carlchip78]

  don't get dragged into a debate about "there can be an audible difference" vs "there can't be an audible difference". that's a strawman argument, not the topic. of course there can be a difference, a defective cable being the most obvious example but not the only one. we all accept the possibility of an audible difference, that's what being open minded really means. but in this sub section going from being open to the possibility straight to claiming it's a fact, that requires those little things called proof.
 
 
real life analogy born to fail:
if I post like R Kelly that " I believe I can fly, I believe I can touch the sky", what I'm really saying is that I believe in something, I didn't claim I could actually do it, only that I believe I can. that's what we call an opinion.
now if I say "I can fly, and I've touched the sky many times, you only need real good shoes, special shoelaces and good toes", most people would be like: ".AVI or it didn't happen". and of course you would be justified to ask for evidence because I'm no longer saying I believe in something, I'm claiming it happened for a fact.
facts require evidence.
if you don't have evidence, you cannot prove something to others, therefore you should stick to cautiously expressing your opinion on the matter.
QED.

Hear hear.. always the voice of reason.. Seems like you're one of the good guys. I have no background surrounding your avatar, but it does seem fitting after reading a lot of your "everybody, calm down now" posts. 
 
It's easy to become closed minded on a topic regardless of which end of the "Sceptic > Believer" scale that one falls into. I get that.

 

[Ancipital]

  Well said; like a pitchfork tossing contest in the Everglades of procrastinating cantaloupe growth from within the garden of mechanical apathy. 

 
Time for me to listen to "Uranus, The Magician", which often seems to be appropriately named when visiting these discussions.  (Edit: Though, perhaps not spelled properly)

 
Hah, as I was reading that, it was "Jupiter, the Bringer of Jollity", in my case. Hugely enjoyable. This thread has become so silly that I'm feeling the jollity- though I should probably be off buying $5000 directional cryo-copper water pipes.

 

[castleofargh]

  Hear hear.. always the voice of reason.. Seems like you're one of the good guys. I have no background surrounding your avatar, but it does seem fitting after reading a lot of your "everybody, calm down now" posts. 
 
It's easy to become closed minded on a topic regardless of which end of the "Sceptic > Believer" scale that one falls into. I get that.

 

Spoiler: off topic about my avatar

 

it's saitama(one punch man) and I used it to show a reliable rendering of my hair. there are plenty of bald guys in mangas but most were super famous so I went for him(and the manga made me laugh so much). but then someone who can actually draw redid the manga and it became famous, after that an anime came out. so now I feel like a jerk using such an "emblematic" figure. it must be the first time in my life that I feel like saying "I knew it before it was cool" hipster style.
and here is my audio super power:

 

thank you for the support, but this is obviously the "modo for a hobby" talking in those posts. I am really just another black&white argument  addict in recovery, so I'm certainly not always the voice of reason. I'd love to be, but I'm really not.

 

[carlchip78]

 

Spoiler: off topic about my avatar

it's saitama(one punch man) and I used it to show a reliable rendering of my hair. there are plenty of bald guys in mangas but most were super famous so I went for him(and the manga made me laugh so much). but then someone who can actually draw redid the manga and it became famous, after that an anime came out. so now I feel like a jerk using such an "emblematic" figure. it must be the first time in my life that I feel like saying "I knew it before it was cool" hipster style.
and here is my audio super power:

thank you for the support, but this is obviously the "modo for a hobby" talking in those posts. I am really just another black&white argument  addict in recovery, so I'm certainly not always the voice of reason. I'd love to be, but I'm really not.

Love it! Thanks for the background.

 

[Mambosenior]

Another topic proving the need for a "Sound Science Fiction" forum.

 

[Thenazgul]

Another topic proving the need for a "Sound Science Fiction" forum.

Science behind high-end audio-cables, is enough as topic name. The fiction part you could leave out. Makes it straight away not transparant anymore.
I could understand people buying the high-end usb-cables to. Personally I did order the DHC cable for my HD800S and a RCA cable. I am still thinking of completing the whole audio-chain by adding the USB A>B. That those analog cables for audio equipment works is a fact. I am more skeptible about the digital USB-cables, yet esthetics might win it in my mind.

 

[Mambosenior]

Science behind high-end audio-cables, is enough as topic name. The fiction part you could leave out. Makes it straight away not transparant anymore.

I could understand people buying the high-end usb-cables to. Personally I did order the DHC cable for my HD800S and a RCA cable. I am still thinking of completing the whole audio-chain by adding the USB A>B. That those analog cables for audio equipment works is a fact. I am more skeptible about the digital USB-cables, yet esthetics might win it in my mind.

Hey, it's your money. You also must have discovered the "real" science behind cable differences.

You did write something I can understand as probable:
"That those analog cables for audio equipment works is a fact."
Yes, if they are not broken and properly connected, they do work.

 

[GRUMPYOLDGUY]

Science behind high-end audio-cables, is enough as topic name. The fiction part you could leave out. Makes it straight away not transparant anymore.

I could understand people buying the high-end usb-cables to. Personally I did order the DHC cable for my HD800S and a RCA cable. I am still thinking of completing the whole audio-chain by adding the USB A>B. That those analog cables for audio equipment works is a fact. I am more skeptible about the digital USB-cables, yet esthetics might win it in my mind.

Hey, it's your money. You also must have discovered the "real" science behind cable differences.

You did write something I can understand as probable:
"That those analog cables for audio equipment works is a fact."
Yes, if they are not broken and properly connected, they do work.

Science (engineering actually) tells us there is a MEASURABLE difference between cables to a certain point. A poorly constructed cable will measure poorer than a well constructed cable. Period. How much more poorly depends on quite a few things.

Whether or not the difference is AUDIBLE is up for debate. I'm not convinced it makes an impact to the degree most here say it does. But frankly, I don't care if it sounds better, as long as it measures better.

Same thing with USB cables... Under certain conditions a poorly constructed USB cable will result in more bit errors than a well constructed cable. Again, whether or not the difference is audible is up for debate. Again, I'm not convinced it makes a noticable impact. And again, I don't care.

Will I spend exorbitant amounts of money on cables? No. Will I spend a couple of hundred on an IEM cable or a hundred on some USB cables? Yeah, why not... I have a job, and it's not much for the satisfaction of having a more robust set up. Regardless of whether or not that robustness is ever needed.



Sent from my E5803 using a highly trained, special forces carrier pigeon

 

[spruce music]

Science (engineering actually) tells us there is a MEASURABLE difference between cables to a certain point. A poorly constructed cable will measure poorer than a well constructed cable. Period. How much more poorly depends on quite a few things.

Whether or not the difference is AUDIBLE is up for debate. I'm not convinced it makes an impact to the degree most here say it does. But frankly, I don't care if it sounds better, as long as it measures better.

Same thing with USB cables... Under certain conditions a poorly constructed USB cable will result in more bit errors than a well constructed cable. Again, whether or not the difference is audible is up for debate. Again, I'm not convinced it makes a noticable impact. And again, I don't care.

Will I spend exorbitant amounts of money on cables? No. Will I spend a couple of hundred on an IEM cable or a hundred on some USB cables? Yeah, why not... I have a job, and it's not much for the satisfaction of having a more robust set up. Regardless of whether or not that robustness is ever needed.

 

Not this again.  A well constructed USB cable that won't result in bit errors (which makes audibility a non-issue) is a $3-10 problem.  That's it. 

The I don't care attitude makes no difference in the measured difference or lack there of.  Which is really more robust?  A $100 boutique USB cable or $10 good solid USB cable you buy ten of so that if one goes bad you still have the nine lives of a cat to fall back upon? Cost is the same, and I bet the 10 cable solution lasts longer. Including if your cat chews on it. 

 

[GRUMPYOLDGUY]

But you don't disagree that there is a measurable difference between a poorly constructed cable and a well constructed one.

That is the purpose of this discussion. End of story.

The rest of your post is just troll noise.

Sent from my E5803 using a highly trained, special forces carrier pigeon

 

[sonitus mirus]

But you don't disagree that there is a measurable difference between a poorly constructed cable and a well constructed one.

That is the purpose of this discussion. End of story.

The rest of your post is just troll noise.

Sent from my E5803 using a highly trained, special forces carrier pigeon

 
If poorly constructed means broken or not measuring up the the USB specifications, then I don't see the need to even mention these for comparisons.  Broken USB cable are easy to identify.  Errors or noise from non-standard USB cable should be easy to identify.  
 
I believe the purpose of the discussion is to shed light on whether or not the additional cost of expensive USB cables is justified with regards to audible differences.  We don't even have evidence to suggest that boutique USB cables are more reliable or that they are manufactured with any more precision or with lower failure rates than a generic brand that only barely meets the specifications for the USB standards.  Maybe I'm wrong, but most of the discussions at Head-Fi seem to be about audio quality and where to spend money that will have the most significant impact on any improvements.  To suggest that some expensive cables might offer better reliability and performance in any meaningful way to an overwhelming number of curious readers, is not fair.  You come across as gentleman with a dogged determination, which I respect immensely, but I sincerely hope that you do not take my comment to be a personal affront.   

 

[L8MDL]

A $10 USB cable that meets specifications will "sound" as good as a $100 USB cable that meets specifications. Period, end of story.

 

[Thenazgul]

Science (engineering actually) tells us there is a MEASURABLE difference between cables to a certain point. A poorly constructed cable will measure poorer than a well constructed cable. Period. How much more poorly depends on quite a few things.

Whether or not the difference is AUDIBLE is up for debate. I'm not convinced it makes an impact to the degree most here say it does. But frankly, I don't care if it sounds better, as long as it measures better.

Same thing with USB cables... Under certain conditions a poorly constructed USB cable will result in more bit errors than a well constructed cable. Again, whether or not the difference is audible is up for debate. Again, I'm not convinced it makes a noticable impact. And again, I don't care.

Will I spend exorbitant amounts of money on cables? No. Will I spend a couple of hundred on an IEM cable or a hundred on some USB cables? Yeah, why not... I have a job, and it's not much for the satisfaction of having a more robust set up. Regardless of whether or not that robustness is ever needed.



Sent from my E5803 using a highly trained, special forces carrier pigeon

I agree with you. Everyone has his hobby and spent ****loads of money on it. I know people that buy each 4-5 months a new phone, going out weekly and spend hundreds of euro's. Yet this cables lasts for a long time. And to be fair. Having a whole audio-cable chain of the same brand has something. It feels better than have expensive RCA-cables and aftermarket headphone-cables and have some cheap-ass USB A>B cables in the chain. I rather have some quality cables made with good materials. (connectors etc). The scientific part is a other story. Think most of us are not capable of saying something about it. That includes me. To be fair, I have been waching multiple youtube-video's and i've readed tons of reviews on different forums but none of them had proper testing-results. Some say that they notice a difference between the cables, others do not. Some people say it is snake oil, others not. But real evidence/facts/measurements/testing-results and proper argumentation is not there. People are just guessing and judging and tell what they wanna tell (maybe even based on marketing). Advertising is everywhere. Tranparancy is almost nowhere anymore. 

 

[spruce music]

But you don't disagree that there is a measurable difference between a poorly constructed cable and a well constructed one.

That is the purpose of this discussion. End of story.

The rest of your post is just troll noise.

Sent from my E5803 using a highly trained, special forces carrier pigeon

A well constructed USB cable accurately without errors transmits the data.  That is the job of USB and one that does it is well enough constructed.  As such performance is readily available for $10 or less then what is there to say after that? Your superior construction whatever that means in your mind which you seem incapable of letting go of is the very definition of gilding the lily. Something that is perfect as it is isn't made more perfect by adding to it.

 

[GRUMPYOLDGUY]

But you don't disagree that there is a measurable difference between a poorly constructed cable and a well constructed one.

That is the purpose of this discussion. End of story.

The rest of your post is just troll noise.

Sent from my E5803 using a highly trained, special forces carrier pigeon

A well constructed USB cable accurately without errors transmits the data.  That is the job of USB and one that does it is well enough constructed.  As such performance is readily available for $10 or less then what is there to say after that? Your superior construction whatever that means in your mind which you seem incapable of letting go of is the very definition of gilding the lily. Something that is perfect as it is isn't made more perfect by adding to it.

So you agree with me, but you're arguing anyway. Got it.

Sent from my E5803 using a highly trained, special forces carrier pigeon