[Pianist]

Quote:

It boils down to what the OP is looking for.  I would agree that ER4 beats all in detail retreival but that's where it ends.  In terms of soundstage, musicality/naturalness, and fullness of sound most all IEM's priced at or over $200 destroy the ER4 in these criteria.

 
And the rest is just a matter of proper fit and amping. I think ER4 has an excellent, wide, airy soundstage, great dynamics, very life like timbre, very full, rich mids (unlike W3's recessed mids), extremely tight, deep bass (better than that on any Westone) and smooth extended highs with no annoying recession like on the UM3X.



 

 

[pedxing]

I replaced um3x with er-4p.  I think the er-4 has better details and isolation, but most multi driver IEMs will have a bigger wow factor and better extensions.  It depends what you are looking for.  I was tired with cross-over smearing and needed better isolation on trains and airplanes.
 
My suggestion is to buy something that you want to use which means comfort and sound signature.

 

[kmhaynes]

I'm very satisfied with my HF5 (going on 4 months), but I haven't heard the ER4 or W2 or really anything above $200.  If the ER4 ever comes back down below $200 mark, I will likely get a new one with the newer twisted cable -- the HF5 cable seems to be holding up well, but it feels pretty thin to me.

 

[Marcus_C]

Quote:

 

For some reason I can't quote your post but anyway. For someone of spyro's experience I think we can rule out improper fit and as far as a lot of us are concerned, using an amp is an unnecessary inconvenience on the go and with the amps that I have I disagree that the er4(s) bass extension is better/equal to the multi-armatures i've heard. Out of curiosity though, what amp do you use with them? 

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

For some reason I can't quote your post but anyway. For someone of spyro's experience I think we can rule out improper fit and as far as a lot of us are concerned, using an amp is an unnecessary inconvenience on the go and with the amps that I have I disagree that the er4(s) bass extension is better/equal to the multi-armatures i've heard. Out of curiosity though, what amp do you use with them?

 
Well, these are the only reasons I can think of. ER4 is extremely sensitive to positioning in the ear canal and depth of insertion. If positioned incorrectly, it can sound overly bright and lacking low end, but with the right fit, the bass sounds just perfect in my opinion and the sound is anything but thin and analytical - it is rich and musical, and at the same time extremely detailed.
 
You are right, you don't need an amp with ER4P and HF series. They are quite easy to drive although they certainly still benefit from better amping and sources. The ER4S does need an amp though. I don't have an amp at the time, so I am using the ER4 in P configuration and with the right fit, it sounds superb.
 
We all have our own preferences of course and I do respect Spyro's opinion since he is indeed a very experienced member, but I cannot agree that ER4 lacks bass or sounds thin. That is simply not true. I am not hearing them that way and it certainly wouldn't make sense to say that I prefer a thin and bass light sound, because who in their right mind would like such a sound? I do appreciate the richer, fuller bass of multi drivers, but in my opinion that is not accurate sound. It is trying to emulate speaker sound, but headphones can never sound like speakers anyway and adding extra bass or sense of soundstage to them only makes them sound more artificial. This is strictly my opinion of course.



 

 

[kmhaynes]

 
Quote from Pianist:

ER4 is extremely sensitive to positioning in the ear canal and depth of insertion. If positioned incorrectly, it can sound overly bright and lacking low end, but with the right fit, the bass sounds just perfect in my opinion and the sound is anything but thin and analytical - it is rich and musical, and at the same time extremely detailed.

 
I assume you are using with the 3-flange silicone Ety tips with your ER4? 
 
I'm using Shure Olives with my HF5 (see my avatar), and it is the most UN-sensitive to position of any IEM I have ever had.  The HF5 nozzle sits about 5 mm inside tip end of the Olive, and once it is in my ear, there's no pinching of the Olive at all, and it is perfectly sealed and balanced L/R.  Also, with the Olive I don't have to go near as deep in my ear canal as with the silicone 3-flange.  It is a great thing to not have to re-adjust the position of my IEM every minute (or more often)!

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

I assume you are using with the 3-flange silicone Ety tips with your ER4? 
 
I'm using Shure Olives with my HF5 (see my avatar), and it is the most UN-sensitive to position of any IEM I have ever had.  The HF5 nozzle sits about 5 mm inside tip end of the Olive, and once it is in my ear, there's no pinching of the Olive at all, and it is perfectly sealed and balanced L/R.  Also, with the Olive I don't have to go near as deep in my ear canal as with the silicone 3-flange.  It is a great thing to not have to re-adjust the position of my IEM every minute (or more often)!

I am actually using Shure grey single flange silicone tips at the moment.
 

 

[Marcus_C]

Did I say the ety bass sounds thin? or did spyro? I might have done but you're quite right IMO. The reason I suggested the w2 instead of the er4 is the OP clearly thinks there is a better sound from an iem than he's getting, although he hasn't said what is lacking it's a good bet he (like me) wants a more enhanced bass at times without losing much of the detail he's come to like, from my experience, that is the w2 to a tee. Regardless of whether it's a technically less accurate sound, I prefer a lot of the genre's i listen to with the w2 than the ety, more bass weight seems to either create the illusion or result in deeper extension (considering I listen to a lot of breaks/dub I don't want as much of an enhanced bass as a lot of people). By the way, if you haven't tried it, the er4s is quite brilliant with an AMB M3 behind it, I am considering making a balanced cable for mine as I don't use it out and about much.

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

Did I say the ety bass sounds thin? or did spyro? I might have done but you're quite right IMO. The reason I suggested the w2 instead of the er4 is the OP clearly thinks there is a better sound from an iem than he's getting, although he hasn't said what is lacking it's a good bet he (like me) wants a more enhanced bass at times without losing much of the detail he's come to like, from my experience, that is the w2 to a tee. Regardless of whether it's a technically less accurate sound, I prefer a lot of the genre's i listen to with the w2 than the ety, more bass weight seems to either create the illusion or result in deeper extension (considering I listen to a lot of breaks/dub I don't want as much of an enhanced bass as a lot of people). By the way, if you haven't tried it, the er4s is quite brilliant with an AMB M3 behind it, I am considering making a balanced cable for mine as I don't use it out and about much.

Spyro thinks Etys sound thin.

 

[Zafonic]

Thanks for all the suggestions and opinions, guys
 
I wouldn't say the hf5s are lacking anything, but then again, I haven't been exposed to the multi-driver IEMs that some of you own.  The main thing I don't want to lose is the detail and clarity.  For example, one of the songs I like is Chris Cornell's unplugged version of 'Billy Jean'.  To me, it sounds great with the hf5s.  Would it sound much better with different IEMs?  Would they still provide the transparency of the vocals and guitar but add something else that the hf5s could not do?
 
 
 
 

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

Thanks for all the suggestions and opinions, guys
 
I wouldn't say the hf5s are lacking anything, but then again, I haven't been exposed to the multi-driver IEMs that some of you own.  The main thing I don't want to lose is the detail and clarity.  For example, one of the songs I like is Chris Cornell's unplugged version of 'Billy Jean'.  To me, it sounds great with the hf5s.  Would it sound much better with different IEMs?  Would they still provide the transparency of the vocals and guitar but add something else that the hf5s could not do?

I heard plenty of multi drivers. I think HF5 beats most if not all of them. Only the very best can compete with the Etys in detail and accuracy. I would say if you want to try something that may be a worthy replacement for the HF5, check out EarSonics SM3, Shure SE535, Westone 4, Hifiman RE252 and RE262 and Ortofon e-Q7. Not all of the ones I listed are multi driver, but they are all really good. I heard all of them except the Westone 4 and I personally think that they are more of a sidegrade to the HF5 than an upgrade, but they sound signature may suit you more.
 
 

 

[Spyro]

Yes, thin relative to other offerings out there.  And, yes, many of those offerings do it quite sloppily.  I have never had fit issues with Etys.  I would use the tri-flanges tilted upwards at about 30 degrees upon insertion and also the supplied foams which were my favorite for naturalness.  My ears could sort of get use to Ety bass but when I would switch to a multi-driver there was an added fullness and musicality that is much more appealing to me.
 
Pianist, have you tried the GR10's?  I think you would really like.  They are exactly what I would expect a next generation Ety to sound like.
 
And for what it's worth...at the $100-120 range, yes, I am a big fan of the HF5.  Can't go wrong.  But at $200, I would look at W2 over ER4P but that is just me.

 

[imackler]

 
Quote:

Yes, thin relative to other offerings out there...
 
Pianist, have you tried the GR10's?  I think you would really like.  They are exactly what I would expect a next generation Ety to sound like.
 
And for what it's worth...at the $100-120 range, yes, I am a big fan of the HF5.  Can't go wrong.  But at $200, I would look at W2 over ER4P but that is just me.

 
I kind of agree about the ER4P being thin; it lacks depth or space, and sometimes that lack of depth can prevent me from being immersed in the music. Not that I don't love the ER4P, but I find they excel most at classical solos/quartets. I've actually just re-bought them because of how much I enjoy them for that kind of music. I'm interested to retry them for other genres. I can also find the treble a little sharp with them at times.
 
I still would pick the ER4P over the W2. W2 is much warmer than the ER4P but I found it one of the most boring earphones I've listened, too (personally, of course). It is really good (and in ways has some of the same strengths as the W4) but I find it shares its weakness (for me personally) of being a little boring, compared to how other iems emphasize (while not over-emphazing) a frequency range. It is a great all rounder and less fatiguing than the ER4P can be. It is also more comfortable, too.
 
Spyro, stop it with the GR10 talk... The last thing I need is to spring for another $400 earphone! BTW, I think you could really like the W4. Have you tried them?
 
 

 

[Inks]

Doubt Pianist will like the GR10 considering he hated the EQ5s. 

 

[Spyro]

 
Quote:

 
 
 
Spyro, stop it with the GR10 talk... The last thing I need is to spring for another $400 earphone! BTW, I think you could really like the W4. Have you tried them?
 
 

Okay, okay....then you need to consider the JH13. 

  Beats them all I have heard to date and has been my new toy the last several weeks (paired with 7th Gen Ipod Classic)
 
Because I personally listen sort of on the louder side and prefer a fuller sound and the GR10's tended to dislodge while exercising,  I traded in the GR10 for the JH5 back in Nov.
 
Then I couldn't resist and bought the JH13 about 3 weeks ago.  All three are very different IEM's but JH13 is in a whole different class IMHO.
 
Have not heard the W4.  No intenetions of purchasing it at the moment.