Are (High-end) Custom IEMs Overrated?

[caracara08]

its not like every kid in america has customs. this forum is a very small sample size.  yes there are rich parents in the world that may give their children enough money for customs. whats the big deal? if they dont spend it on customs, theyll spend it on something else thats stupid like:
video games
slurpees
mcdonalds
cigarettes
drugs
alcohol
more video games
trimming their shoulder length hair (males)
buying more size 25 jeans (males)
finding more reasons to be emo
 
this site is worldwide of course, but isnt very big in the scheme of things.

 

[music_4321]

And all this time I've kept thinking that this thread would make it to the front page of the New York Times, The Washington Post, The Financial Times, The Guardian, The Telegraph, Le Monde, Frankfurter Allgemeine, Corriere della Sera, El Pais and be the main news item on the BBC for at least 2 weeks.
 
How very naive of me.

 

[caracara08]

hahahah!

 

[Danz03]

Are there actually fanboys for the UE18Pro? I don't think I've come across any.
 
I was actually going to get a pair of JH16Pro and then the dealer at my regular headphone shop offered me a discount on the UE18Pro and sold me out on how good they are as he just got one himself. Maybe it was my fault to have trusted him but I just thought to myself, top of the line custom IEMs, can't be that bad, right?
 
I don't regret getting them, they are designed for stage use and I think they are perfect for that purpose, I just want to warn those audiophiles who are expecting them to be neutral or flat sounding like the LCD-2 or to use them for music listening to beware.
 
Anyway, one cannot trust the universal demo versions of the customs, if they'd sound nearly as good as the real thing, they would have sold them as universals too, right?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by music_4321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
It's also not uncommon that when a poster expresses their negative views they'll be met with a bunch of replies by some of the fanboys of a particular custom IEM, or they'll be told they have a wrong fit, wrong ear impressions, or that maybe the sound signature is not for them, or to give themselves more time to adjust to their customs' sound signature & fit, or that they need to change sources, get an amp, use lossless files and so on. These fanboys at times behave like 'gangs' and they'll make a point that the unsatisfied HFer is just an isolated case.

 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

 
Anyway, one cannot trust the universal demo versions of the customs, if they'd sound nearly as good as the real thing, they would have sold them as universals too, right?

Wrong.  What's the economic case for selling a cheaper product that undercuts your own flagship models?  There isn't one.  So there aren't universal models of customs for sale.  Plus other considerations that make that a poor business case.  I have yet to hear a demo that misrepresents a customs sound signature.  
 
I would not be surprised to see this thread in Le Monde.  In fact, I believe there is a protest march being organized on the Champs Elysees as we speak.
 

 

[Danz03]

If what you said is true, then the OP's question 'are (high-end) custom IEMs overrated?' is true because that means universal IEMs can sound just as good, it's just that the IEM companies are unwilling to sell them cheaper.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaxilus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Wrong.  What's the economic case for selling a cheaper product that undercuts your own flagship models?  There isn't one.  So there aren't universal models of customs for sale.  Plus other considerations that make that a poor business case.  I have yet to hear a demo that misrepresents a customs sound signature. 
 

 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

If what you said is true, then the OP's question 'are (high-end) custom IEMs overrated?' is true because that means universal IEMs can sound just as good, it's just that the IEM companies are unwilling to sell them cheaper.

 
Ok, you went from 'not nearly as good' to 'just as good'.  I'll stop before we get to 'much better than'.  Think about it, a properly done custom matched to your individual ear can never be outdone or matched by the same universal version.  If it is something is wrong w/ the custom. 
 
I won't however refute your last statement as I did say and mean that.  I do believe the majority of a custom's potential still stems from the hardware used rather than the fit.  BUT...done right, a custom allows the technician to properly match and align drivers to your individual physiology and the driver package which will improve coherence, imaging, staging, etc.  There are no guarantees however.  Is it possible that with the right tips and fit you can get similar results w/ a universal custom?  Sure, if you are lucky.  Customs are supposed to remove the luck factor.
 

 
 

 

[Jazzyfi]

As I already mentioned several times, custom are originally made (and most of them still are made) for stage performance. Universal can't beat it in terms of isolations. So somehow somebody created a new trend in audiophile world.

 

[Danz03]

A lot of headphones or IEMs are nearly perfect, the difference between prefect and not so good could be less than 10%, you seem to just want to win both sides of the argument, greedy. 

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaxilus /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I have yet to hear a demo that misrepresents a customs sound signature. 
 
Ok, you went from 'not nearly as good' to 'just as good'.  I'll stop before we get to 'much better than'.  Think about it, a properly done custom matched to your individual ear can never be outdone or matched by the same universal version.  If it is something is wrong w/ the custom. 
 
I won't however refute your last statement as I did say and mean that.  I do believe the majority of a custom's potential still stems from the hardware used rather than the fit.  BUT...done right, a custom allows the technician to properly match and align drivers to your individual physiology and the driver package which will improve coherence, imaging, staging, etc.  There are no guarantees however.  Is it possible that with the right tips and fit you can get similar results w/ a universal custom?  Sure, if you are lucky.  Customs are supposed to remove the luck factor.

 

 

[Danz03]

I think the ER-4s are better or just as good in terms of isolation, but I wouldn't comment about comfort. 

 
Quote:

As I already mentioned several times, custom are originally made (and most of them still are made) for stage performance. Universal can't beat it in terms of isolations. So somehow somebody created a new trend in audiophile world.

 

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

Are there actually fanboys for the UE18Pro? I don't think I've come across any.
 

True, I haven't yet seen any UE18 fanboyism and that's why I said "It's not uncommon" instead of always, but probably this is more due to the fact that it's the most expensive of all high-end customs out there, plus the fact there have been some CS & QC issues repoted in the last couple of years, and that's very likely why very few people have them. 
 
Quote:

As I already mentioned several times, custom are originally made (and most of them still are made) for stage performance. Universal can't beat it in terms of isolations. So somehow somebody created a new trend in audiophile world.

Westone's UM Series IEMs (UM1, UM2 & UM3X), unlike the W Series, (W1, W2, W3 & W4) are musicians' monitors - now both UM2 & UM3X also come with detachable cables - and they've been used on stage, too, for quite a while, and though isolation isn't as good as my custom ES3X, it's actually not that far from it. BUT, some people have reported similar levels of isolation using Comply/Foam tips (which I personally don't like). It's also been reported several times that Etymotic IEMs provide even more isolation that customs.
 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

A lot of headphones or IEMs are nearly perfect, the difference between prefect and not so good could be less than 10%, you seem to just want to win both sides of the argument, greedy. 

A sound signature is a signature, like a models or manufacturers house sound.  You don't need perfect fit to figure it out.  I'm sorry you can't see how my statements are coherent w/ each other.  Nothing I can do about that.  Completely disagree w/ your bolded comment btw.  
 
Nothing more to be said that hasn't been already IMO.  Unsubscribing.
 

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

 
I would not be surprised to see this thread in Le Monde.  In fact, I believe there is a protest march being organized on the Champs Elysees as we speak.
 

 
Quote:

A sound signature is a signature, like a models or manufacturers house sound.  You don't need perfect fit to figure it out.  I'm sorry you can't see how my statements are coherent w/ each other.  Nothing I can do about that.  Completely disagree w/ your bolded comment btw.  
 
Nothing more to be said that hasn't been already IMO.  Unsubscribing.
 

If I said to you there's a protest march in London as we speak against the SM3s and in favour of the ES5s, would you subscribe again to this thread?  
 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

If I said to you there's a protest march in London as we speak against the SM3s and in favour of the ES5s, would you subscribe again to this thread?  

Done.  

 
Just trying to stay out of trouble.  

  
 

 

[goodvibes]

Stage monitor can vary depending on usage. Light accoustical would prefer something without the bass lift that loud electronic needs. Some are designed with mixing in mind. While the initial purpose of custom was loud stage use. They've moved beyond that.