[Rymf]

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I've finally registered and posted here tonight after lurking for some time, as I'm closing in on a decision and now have questions specific enough that searches of previous discussions leave me wanting.
 
I'll soon be purchasing a pair of headphones which will need to perform well as:
 

1. Entry level monitors for my foray into production of what I'm inclined to call "beat music" (as is true of any genre, but especially emerging ones, there is obviously debate over nomenclature and who does or doesn't meet the requirements—but if you're not already familiar, see Flying Lotus, Matthewdavid, Mane Mane, Teebs, etc. for examples of the sound I'm describing). I'm aware that many among you would argue my decision to do any sort of monitoring with headphones is nothing short of heresy. The unfortunate fact is that my bedroom/studio is octagonal and has a peaked ceiling. I'll buy proper monitors next time I move.
2. Live performance situations that sort of resemble DJ sets with live improvisation/looping interspersed with some playback of (often other people's) full tracks.
3. To a certain extent, casual listening.

 
As noted in the subject, I've largely narrowed down my search to the Sennheiser HD 25-1s and the TMA-1s, although my decision is based entirely on 2nd/3rd hand information, I've not yet tested either, and anything could change at this point. I hope to A/B test them sometime this week, I know Turntable Lab should have them, but if anyone has any recommendations of shops further north/east of LA I can expect to find and be allowed to test both pairs, I'd greatly appreciate it.
 
As casual listening headphones, the TMA-1s stand out (based on what I've read) as most appropriate, given the types of music I primarily enjoy. In addition to the LA/UK beat scene stuff, I like a lot of other modern dance/bass music like Machinedrum, Redinho, James Blake (if you didn't assume him to be in one of the previous categories), oOoOO, others; some popular/mainstream electronic stuff (although I prefer the weirder versions of popular electro like Siriusmo and Mr. Oizo); a fair amount of various hip hop and rock; and in terms of non-current music it runs the gamut, but I always come back to funk, R&B/Motown pop, and some soul and disco. Also—for some reason—Devo.
 
Again, I know that headphones in general have trouble providing an accurate soundstage for recording/mastering, and closed back headphones are particularly ill suited for the job. Unfortunately, my budget and my priorities allow for one pair of headphones at the moment, and the aforementioned headphones seem to be a decent compromise. I'm less concerned about the overarching "using dj headphones to monitor" issue and more looking for distinctions between the two and their ability to perform this task. Specifically, I worry that the qualities that make the TMA-1 look like a better daily driver (more pronounced bass & mid response, a more "fun" less "clinical" quality) are the same things that may make it inappropriate for critical listening to my own productions. Conversely, reviewers whose opinions folks around here seem to trust have heaped praise up to and including "the least fatiguing headphones I've ever used" on the TMA-1, and that's obviously a concern as well. Furthermore, I can't shake the feeling that if Aiaiai designed the TMA-1s specifically for people who listen to exactly the types of music I love and hope to make, then perhaps it also makes one of the best options to make the same, balanced response be damned.
 
To sum up, the HD 25-1s seem to me the more responsible option and the TMA-1s a more intriguing one—but I don't really know how much that statement lines up with reality. Please feel free to poke holes in my arguments, to perform observational comedy routines regarding the military-grade appearance of my mother's footwear, and certainly at least to insult my failed attempt at brevity, as required.
 
Thanks again.
 
 __
ryan
 
 

 

[sesshin]

I've had both. Still have the HD25-1 ii. The TMA-1s are definitely better for listening to bass heavy music. Its dynamics are laid back and the bass is warm and enveloping. HD25-1 ii otoh is tight and punchy. Not overwhelming bass but solid. Its highs can get a little fatiguing over long periods though.
 
Personally i would never produce anything on the TMA-1. its too far off neutral. the HD25-1 iis are more accurate. The HD25-1 iis are also the better live performance/dj headphones imo.
 
Regardless with production of beat centric music your ideal setup is always going to be nice monitors with a subwoofer in a treated room. Everything else is a compromise. If mixing on headphones you'll always need to reference on a few other soundsystems to learn how your phones translate.

 

[Rymf]

Thanks for the input.
 
Although one of the downsides of my current living situation is a more-or-less untreatable listening environment in the form of my bedroom, one of the upsides is that the house is full of musicians, and there are some relatively well treated rooms with above average monitors where I can occasionally get permission to audition some of my stuff. Day to day, I only have my own space to work with, so I don't have much choice but the headphone compromise you described. Also, I should note I do have a better-than-bad 2.1 computer speaker setup (Altec Lansing FX6021, 50w sub, 32Hz - 18,000Hz response, 6 vertical tweeter bookshelf style speakers) so I'm not in terrible shape. They're obviously not monitors and likely wouldn't be able to compete with the most lowly of entry level options, but given the limitations of my space it hardly seems worth the cash to upgrade, especially when there are a lot of other pieces I can address that will make a bigger impact both immediately and long term.
 
I found your comment about the HD 25-1iis being better performance headphones interesting. Is it primarily a comfort thing? More even response perhaps more representative of what ends up at the main output? Something else entirely?

 

[129207]

HD25-1 II for DJ use, listening and producing. To me, the TMA-01 sounded too veiled in comparison (borrowed the TMA from a friend to compare to my own cans) and the HD25-1 can be EQ'ed to get that same boomy bass the TMA-1 has if you want. The TMA-01 looks and feels great but I never understood how people can prefer it to the HD25-1 II sound-wise. 
 
 

 

[ClieOS]

I have been listened to TMA-1 for a few week now (almost finish writing a review on it too). It is definitely south of neutral when it come to coloration. But if EQ is involved, you can just as well EQ TMA-1 for more detail / less bass as much as you wanted. I would think it is more important for DJ to understand the strength / weakness / character / difference between his headphone and the actual live playback than it is to get a totally neutral / accurate headphone. When you are DJing / mixing live, whatever neutralness and accuracy will be out of the window once you have loud music coming on all sides and noise from people shouting / singing in excitation. TMA-1 will work well in that kind of environment as opposed to mixing / monitoring in a quiet studio.

 

[sesshin]

Quote:

I found your comment about the HD 25-1iis being better performance headphones interesting. Is it primarily a comfort thing? More even response perhaps more representative of what ends up at the main output? Something else entirely?

Main thing is fit. I personally found the TMA-1 very loose on my head. I wore it DJing and every time I would look down at the mixer it would fall off. The HD25-1 ii has a death grip and isn't going anywhere. Some people say it's too tight, but I would rather it be too tight than too loose because they can always loosen up but can't tighten.
 
Also the sound characteristic. It's a personal preference but I would rather have a crisp sounding headphone like the HD25 because I find the strong highs cut through all the bass and rumble of a club. Bassy headphones like the TMA-1s kind of get lost in the mess of subwoofers and room acoustics.
 
Main thing the TMA-1s win out on imo is looks. I love the way they look, although I found they were susceptible to scratches. The HD25s look great too though, and are virtually indestructible, which is also a plus when playing out with them.

 

[Rymf]

Thanks for all the help, everyone.
 
A few takeaways:
 

1. The most important task (or at least the one that allows me to justify spending this much money) I'll be using these headphones for is production of my own work. It seems that neither pair mentioned is terribly appropriate for that application, but between the two the HD 25-1iis have fewer drawbacks. Those are all things I sort of expected to get out of this discussion, but I'll pose another question: Am I going about this wrong? I sort of assumed my best bet would be to get something above average in the 150-200 range that could do double duty; perhaps my lack of experience betrays me here, but do I have a hope of finding something that works in the studio and doesn't suck in the club, or vice versa? Should I switch gears and buy two pairs, and just reallocate that money however I think makes sense/wherever the deals are? For a while I was considering the ATH-M50s (though I prefer supraaural), where do they fit in here?
2. I'm a minimal/functional industrial design nerd who worships at the altar of Dieter Rams and Johnny Ive; I love the looks of both set of headphones, so that hardly comes into play for me. I expect I'll end up liking the way the HD 25-1iis look *on me* a bit better, as the cans just aren't as deep and won't stick as far off my head.

 
On a semi-related note, from sesshin's most recent post:
Quote:

I would rather it be too tight than too loose because they can always loosen up but can't tighten.

 
I read some interesting things throughout this process about a second production run of TMA-1s having been slightly redesigned to fit tighter on the head. Anyone have any hard info on this? Also, people have mentioned folks using rubberbands and the like to take advantage of the pliable materials used in the TMA-1 to reshape it, sort of like the brim on a baseball cap. I'd love to hear from anyone with experience there. Ultimately I just need to go out try these things on.