[helmutcheese]

Someone in the main section posted these (Watch video for their Lossless Dongle):

https://www.velacy.com/products/crystal-5a-earbuds

 

[Dimitry188]

omeone in the main section posted these (Watch video for their Lossless Dongle):

https://www.velacy.com/products/crystal-5a-earbuds

At 1:19 such a device is mentioned:
(Velacy's Bluebeam 3A).
It is stated that this adapter supports LE Audio and aptX Lossless.
But I couldn't find it on sale by searching the Internet.

P.S. The headphones themselves didn't impress me at all. They are large and roughly correspond to models from 3-5 years ago.

 

[helmutcheese]

I do not think either the earbuds or dongle are for sale yet.

 

[LoryWiv]

I think the earbuds will be crowd funded on idiego.

 

[helmutcheese]

I figured it may be something like that, hope they do actually make it to launch.

 

[itchyears]

Looks like their trying to tick all the requirements with those buds, they mention they support aptx low latency but then in brackets (LC3), think they just meant LC3 and aptx adaptive.

specs show this: LE audio (LC3), AAC, SBC, aptX, aptX adaptive, aptX lossless

They only mention lower then 69ms with LC3, wonder if that was early figures though or maybe normal with buds, not really a earbud user.

Searched on indiegogo here and couldn't see any information, sounds a good project its probably early on such development you have to tell these designers and engineers what would be helpful to add into such a product otherwise its too late.

 

[chaosgrid]

So I just unpacked the Creative Zen Hybrid Pro Classics. And they are very decent, average ANC, average build quality, average comfort (ear cups too small sadly but otherwise very light), sound seems average as well. But for the price and with the included BT-L3 dongle they seem like a really good deal, pretty happy with them actually. And since LE-audio seems to allow for 80-100 hours of battery time, that sounds also really great. However, I wonder how that works when they are connected to phones via old Bluetooth codecs like SBC (probably reduces battery time?)..

From preliminary testing, the latency is as advertised (they claim it is 20ms, it is definitely below 50ms, will measure later during the week). They run in "Ultra Low Latency" mode (which apparently is LC3+). But most importantly, they finally have a working microphone return channel with proper quality (over bluetooth!) and it just works! Though the boom mic they included is really not great.. but you can also use the built-in microphones of the ANC instead of the boom mic!
I think with LC3 becoming the new standard, gaming headsets will have a way harder time to sell since every LE-audio BT headset will have the option to support low latency with proper microphone return channel (up to now completely impossible).

It does not seem right that they are not going to sell the BT-L3 separately. It seems like its own product (it comes with its own manual). As far as I can tell, it even supports some "Acoustic Engine" (dsp) features and has a built-in 10-band equalizer. Not sure if the other BT-WX devices have that as well or if it only works in combination with the Zen Hybrid Pro. Will be interesting to see if the adapter will work out of the box with the QC Ultras once I receive them.

 

[itchyears]

So I just unpacked the Creative Zen Hybrid Pro Classics. And they are very decent, average ANC, average build quality, average comfort (ear cups too small sadly but otherwise very light), sound seems average as well. But for the price and with the included BT-L3 dongle they seem like a really good deal, pretty happy with them actually. And since LE-audio seems to allow for 80-100 hours of battery time, that sounds also really great. However, I wonder how that works when they are connected to phones via old Bluetooth codecs like SBC (probably reduces battery time?)..

From preliminary testing, the latency is as advertised (they claim it is 20ms, it is definitely below 50ms, will measure later during the week). They run in "Ultra Low Latency" mode (which apparently is LC3+). But most importantly, they finally have a working microphone return channel with proper quality (over bluetooth!) and it just works! Though the boom mic they included is really not great.. but you can also use the built-in microphones of the ANC instead of the boom mic!
I think with LC3 becoming the new standard, gaming headsets will have a way harder time to sell since every LE-audio BT headset will have the option to support low latency with proper microphone return channel (up to now completely impossible).

It does not seem right that they are not going to sell the BT-L3 separately. It seems like its own product (it comes with its own manual). As far as I can tell, it even supports some "Acoustic Engine" (dsp) features and has a built-in 10-band equalizer. Not sure if the other BT-WX devices have that as well or if it only works in combination with the Zen Hybrid Pro. Will be interesting to see if the adapter will work out of the box with the QC Ultras once I receive them.

Good stuff, getting mine in a few days time also since my B&W PX8s are going back soon.

I re-tried over weekend for that 20% promo code and oddly it went through!

Good to hear the latency feels below 50ms, hopefully even lower for the movie and gamer's out there.

Yup id imagine both ends have to be in LE/LC3 etc to get that benefit and energy saving, I got the Creative X5 which am testing but its absolutely problematic, but will try that BT-L3 adapter in the host usb port see if I can force LE/LC3 Codec for my TV, PC, Nvidia Shield, Mobile phone etc

I tried to speak to Bose support asking them if they knew when LC3 firmware update may arrive for the QC ultras but they gave me a scripted copy n paste reply back saying sorry we do not have any information on that, I am pretty sure she had that already cached in memory when I asked for technical support lol

 

[itchyears]

Got my email back from Philips regarding LC3 Codec support in their new L4 headphone series, there claiming whatever is written in the manual and specs on the website is what it supports.
Manual and specs does actually list LC3 support in black and white, there was no * or any indication it wasn't included or was due soon.

Id take this with salt though, till its 100% verified one


Thank you for contacting Philips AVA support.

We understand that you wish to know if the LC4 headphones will support LC3 bluetooth codec, therefore please find below a link to the product which gives all specifications:

Supported Codec: LC3

https://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/L4_00/fidelio-over-ear-wireless-headphones/overview

 

[itchyears]

Intel 14th Gen Meteor Lake for Laptops: WiFi 7 5Gbps & Bluetooth LE Audio Due end of this year

In addition to this, Intel Bluetooth LE Audio is coming to 14th Gen Meteor Lake processors. It brings many new benefits, including features like shared listening and improved accessibility with hearing aids. Compared to the previous Bluetooth standards, Bluetooth LE Audio requires less power and brings superior quality with lower latency.

In Intel Bluetooth LE Audio, there is also a new LC3 Codec which improves listening quality even at lower bitrates, as compared to the SBC codec used in previous Bluetooth standards. It has lower power and bandwidth requirements overall, so new wireless audio products that support it could bring improved battery life.

Link here

Hopefully get Meteor based laptops, mini pcs and desktop pcs in 2024 with LE/LC3 support and Wifi7

 

[itchyears]

beyerdynamic mmx 200 wireless with Bluetooth 5.3 and LC3 Codec

 

[chaosgrid]

beyerdynamic mmx 200 wireless with Bluetooth 5.3 and LC3 Codec

Interesting, I wonder if they also do an MMX 300 wireless version with LC3 codec..

So I tested the latency of the Zen Hybrid Pro Classic and sadly it's around the same ~40-50ms like aptx LL (which is still very good but it's not the 20ms they advertise).
I'm wondering if my setup adds latency somewhere, might do some more testing.

 

[itchyears]

Interesting, I wonder if they also do an MMX 300 wireless version with LC3 codec..

So I tested the latency of the Zen Hybrid Pro Classic and sadly it's around the same ~40-50ms like aptx LL (which is still very good but it's not the 20ms they advertise).
I'm wondering if my setup adds latency somewhere, might do some more testing.

Yeah its interesting to see Beyers jump in quickly with LC3, thought the 300 was wired but there probably due an update with LC3 too they seem to have different gens models.

ahh shame to hear that, I have been testing them out also comparing aptx adaptive vs LC3 ULL, It feels roughly a good 20% better with LC3 ULL though with lipsync.

I found this video here to test lip sync and latency, the guy does a news break down by talking at a very fast pace, good for real world test.


I tried watching a movie yesterday and ULL sounded dead and life-less, need to do more testing since if that is how it sounds when they improve latency and lipsync, that is un-hearable lol

 

[cattboy]

comparing aptx adaptive vs LC3 ULL, It feels roughly a good 20% better with LC3 ULL

ULL sounded dead and life-less

So ULL sounds worse but latency reduction is noticeable when clmparoto aptx adaptive?

This is on the Zen pro classic? Maybe that HP sounds bad?

 

[itchyears]

So ULL sounds worse but latency reduction is noticeable when clmparoto aptx adaptive?

This is on the Zen pro classic? Maybe that HP sounds bad?

It was my fault I had wrong sound setting under Nvidia shield, I had Stereo mode not high quality stereo.

Ill do a bit more testing between sound quality between LE audio and ULL mode on the desktop pc, my 1st worry was ULL would sound worse to get those lower latency numbers better.

*****Edit done further testing now with my Music playlist, I was right the 1st time round LC3+/ULL does drop the audio quality sharply, it even drops the volume.
I switched from LC3 to LC3+/ULL and was able to compare with a few music tracks.

Not good at all imo, if the sound quality drop was a little but this is quite a drop in overall sound quality.

So LC3+ULL to my ears at least sounds more duller, life less in music. Maybe in games and movies you may get away with it somewhat.... So sadly I was right with original hunch that sound quality drop due to ULL mode and it does.


But early findings are the BT-L3/L4 BT adapter's looking like the best Bluetooth dongle I have had especially for LE audio use, its similar to the BT-W5 and can save 4 profiles also and carries over the saved pairings to any other device ie Nvidia Shield, laptop, phone etc

Yes the Zen pro is very basic sound quality, so my ears are taking time to adjust to it not anywhere on the same sound quality as Sony XM5, B&W PX7s2/PX8 etc

I hope Creative release an BT-W6 and just put every darn Bluetooth codec on it adaptx suite and LE audio Suite, in fact ill email them that now lol