[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trose49 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I probably won't really want any keybaord or mouse with the rig so I am leaning toward a straight apple tv I guess that company is working on an interface for blackberry. That is pretty cool!

The keyboard/mouse issue is basically it, plus with a mini you get some fan noise when the cpu heats up. The apple tv uses a passive heat sink and is totally silent.

 

[trose49]

Well that's the clincher for me. I didn't even think of fan noise or what that may do to the sq I can't imagine a rotating fan would not have some negative effect.

And after spending 2500 on a dac and raptor to get thjr best sq I can I'm not willing to chance it!

 

[trose49]

Well that's the clincher for me. I didn't even think of fan noise or what that may do to the sq I can't imagine a rotating fan would not have some negative effect.

And after spending 2500 on a dac and raptor to get thjr best sq I can I'm not willing to chance it!

 

[trose49]

Just picked up this for the server

 

[audioengr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by poo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thought I would add a little info for those wondering why you would buy an Apple TV instead of a squeezebox or other cheaper device. The main reason for me is that the Apple TV is a computer. It is really a compact version of the Mac Mini. It can be made to run full version OSX, can run a web browser, plug in an external drive, iTunes... in fact it can do anything most Macs can do (really only limited by its specs - 1Ghz processor, 256Mb 400MHz DDR2 SDRAM). For me, this is a huge reason to try the ATV as a source over most other devices, especially given that these hacks can be applied for free!

The stock Squeezebox will sound better though. The chips and clocks used in the Apple products tend to result in a lot of jitter on the S/PDIF outputs (Toslink), not to mention that Toslink is at the BOTTOM of the list for minimum jitter. This is why I use my Pace-Car reclocker to reclock the output from the AirPort Express. Same thing can be done for Apple TV. Once the jitter is minimized, these are actually better than the best transport you can buy.

Steve N.

 

[trose49]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioengr /img/forum/go_quote.gif The stock Squeezebox will sound better though. The chips and clocks used in the Apple products tend to result in a lot of jitter on the S/PDIF outputs (Toslink), not to mention that Toslink is at the BOTTOM of the list for minimum jitter. This is why I use my Pace-Car reclocker to reclock the output from the AirPort Express. Same thing can be done for Apple TV. Once the jitter is minimized, these are actually better than the best transport you can buy. Steve N.

I am looking into a Monarchy Dip to do the same thing!

Do you have a link for the model you are using?

 

[tlie00]

This week's The 5th Wave makes me think of this thread...

 

[Skylab]

Of course if you have a DAC that reclocks the incoming datastream, that jitter won't matter.

 

[trose49]

I wonder if the meridian 203 dac reclocks or not it would save be a couple hundred to find out?

Anyone?

Also can someone post a link to the Apple Tv optical out DATA?

 

[trose49]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trose49 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wonder if the meridian 203 dac reclocks or not it would save be a couple hundred to find out? Anyone? Also can someone post a link to the Apple Tv optical out DATA?

Found this on StereoPhile:

Quote:

"Getting back to the 203, one of its most interesting features is a jitter-reduction circuit that processes the incoming data stream before decoding. This proprietary circuitry is hidden beneath a metal shield toward the rear of the pcb. It reportedly reduces jitter by a factor of 100, which in turn improves the audio performance"

 

[audioengr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trose49 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am looking into a Monarchy Dip to do the same thing! Do you have a link for the model you are using?

Here is the link:
http://www.empiricalaudio.com/frPace-Car.html

The Monarchy DIP is not even remotely close the the low level of jitter you get with the Pace-Car. I've modded the DIP in the past. Besides, it is simply an asynchronous upsampler. The Pace-Car does not upsample. It stores the data in a FIFO memory and reclocks the output, a true reclocker.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[audioengr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of course if you have a DAC that reclocks the incoming datastream, that jitter won't matter.

No such DAC exists, except my Spoiler, which has a true reclocker, the Pace-Car mounted internally.

These tricks inside DAC's are simply PLL's that track the incoming clock and attempt to reduce jitter, which they do to some extent. However, they are all sensitive to jitter and introduce their own jitter. The Pace-Car is the only device that is totally insensitive to ANY incoming jitter. The difference is immediately audible in my system. I have modded many of the DAC's that claim jitter on the inputs does not matter (Benchmark, Bel Canto, Dodson 217, 218, Bremen, Electrocompaniet, Perpetual Tech., dAck!, Meridian, MSB, EAD, Theta, Audio Note, Northstar and others). Trust me, it matters.

Steve N.

 

[poo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioengr /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have modded many of the DAC's that claim jitter on the inputs does not matter (Benchmark, Bel Canto, Dodson 217, 218, Bremen, Electrocompaniet, Perpetual Tech., dAck!, Meridian, MSB, EAD, Theta, Audio Note, Northstar and others). Trust me, it matters. Steve N.

So pretty much all the high end DACs out there have issues with jitter, to the extent that it interferes with ones ability to enjoy the music jitter free?

Steve, I'm open to someone teaching me when I hear jitter, but so far no one has. I don't want to be ignorant and start claiming it doesn't exist, but I'm now also at a point that I don't want to be foolish enough to prove to myself that it does. Lets face it - if I start hearing jitter, it's only going to cost me money to correct it... why not be ignorant...

At this point my music sounds good... guess I'm one of the lucky ones

 

[trose49]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioengr /img/forum/go_quote.gif No such DAC exists, except my Spoiler, which has a true reclocker, the Pace-Car mounted internally. These tricks inside DAC's are simply PLL's that track the incoming clock and attempt to reduce jitter, which they do to some extent. However, they are all sensitive to jitter and introduce their own jitter. The Pace-Car is the only device that is totally insensitive to ANY incoming jitter. The difference is immediately audible in my system. I have modded many of the DAC's that claim jitter on the inputs does not matter (Benchmark, Bel Canto, Dodson 217, 218, Bremen, Electrocompaniet, Perpetual Tech., dAck!, Meridian, MSB, EAD, Theta, Audio Note, Northstar and others). Trust me, it matters. Steve N.

I looked on Audiogon and seen none currently for sale.

I would be interested in a used one if anyone sees one send me a PM.

I probably should not be considering a Jitter reduction device that is 8 times the price of the Meridian I bought!

If the 203 sounds that bad I will resell and upgrade the DAC first I would imagine.

From what I have read the Monarchy although not the same thing for the 150-175 on audiogon seems like a real bargin.

 

[audioengr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by poo /img/forum/go_quote.gif So pretty much all the high end DACs out there have issues with jitter, to the extent that it interferes with ones ability to enjoy the music jitter free? Steve, I'm open to someone teaching me when I hear jitter, but so far no one has. I don't want to be ignorant and start claiming it doesn't exist, but I'm now also at a point that I don't want to be foolish enough to prove to myself that it does. Lets face it - if I start hearing jitter, it's only going to cost me money to correct it... why not be ignorant... At this point my music sounds good... guess I'm one of the lucky ones

There is no question that jitter exists. The issue is whether it is audible to you and in your system. IME, it is the one thing that makes digital music fatigueing. With low jitter, I can listen at very high levels all day long without fatigue.

Steve N.