[torifile]

Does anyone know if we'll be able to disable Dolby Atmos and Spatial Audio? I can't stand Dolby Atmos and want it off 100%. If we can't do that I'll probably just stick with Deezer.

I don’t know for sure but there definitely is a setting to turn them off for the AirPods Pro and max so I can’t imagine that there wouldn’t be.

 

[Finger Fish]

I don’t know for sure but there definitely is a setting to turn them off for the AirPods Pro and max so I can’t imagine that there wouldn’t be.

Hope so. I just use my Blessing 2 wired. Can't stand bluetooth.

 

[cj3209]

The problem is how they are going to achieve this. iPhones don't have headphone jack. so the only option is bluetooth and right now they support only AAC codec. So unless apple comes with some proprietary bluetooth codec for ALAC, this is not authentic news. I don't think Apple is so dumb to introduce lossless music service with iphones supporting only AAC bluetooth codec

I don't use my phone to listen to hi-res files. I use ROON on my desktop DAC or ROON on my DAP. Listening to hi-res via BT isn't quite there yet although LDAC sounds pretty good but still not as good as my wired options. I currently have all three streaming services to get the music I want. If I can effectively replace Tidal and Qobuz with Apple's enormous catalog - I'm SOLD.

 

[utdeep]

Hi! Let me help you with this. Game changer is a relative term. What changes the game for me doesn't necessarily change the game for you. I don't know you and I could care less if you were impressed by this.

Here’s why I like it and why it gets me from 2.99 a month with Apple to $29.99 a month for their Apple One Premiere subscription:
- Apple Fitness Plus is good. Might be the best virtual option I’ve used in the Pandemic. Was considering the $79 yearly sub
- Neither Spotify or Tidal have a real offline option for the Apple Watch
- 2TB of iCloud storage is pretty good and an upgrade from $2.99 for 200GB
- Lossless Music for 5 members of my family (including a separate account for my Alexa)
- Apple TV is not terrible. I’ve enjoyed Ted Lasso and my kids love the Helpsters. I wouldn’t pick it over any other service but will take it for free with the package

Everything just works with Apple and they continue to provide value for this ecosystem of services and products. We can pretend that the average Apple user won’t see the benefits of the lossless codec, but you’re ignoring a large swath of customers with tons of cash who spend money on Sonos systems and run Roon with their esoteric dac/amps and high-end headphones.

 

[PopZeus]

I don't know if you're trying to respond to me or not @utdeep since you didn't quote me, but if you COULDN'T care less if I'm impressed, then why are you posting? Also, I'm not "pretending" anything. If you can prove to me that wireless headphones are less popular with Apple users than wired (or that cheapo TWS earbuds are less popular than ROON-ready or SONOS connect hi-fi setups), I'll happily concede the point. But there's so much anecdotal evidence to support my theory. I don't think I'm saying anything out of turn here.

For the record, I wanna point out that you're basically saying because Apple is Apple, when they do something it's a game changer. Yeah, it's your prerogative to call it that but it's also fine for me to call "sus" on the fact that you're just repeating Apple's core value prop that they've had for a better part of a decade and saying it's a game changer because they lowered their price to compete with the big boys. I'll probably end up switching over too, since I use Apple products almost exclusively, To be absolutely clear, I can see the benefits. And I might end up agreeing with once I try it out (and Apple matures their service). But whatever. If you really think Apple "changed the game", my snarky retort would be "then it wasn't much of a game to begin with".

apologies for all the editing. i'm trying to be nice about disagreements. Too much toxicity online and I don't want to contribute.

 

[torifile]

@PopZeus It becomes a game when Apple decides to play in it. That’s how it’s always been. To say anything like Apple is trying “to compete with the big boys” is absurd. Apple *is* the big boy in every domain it plays in. It’s just coming to the game now. When it enters the field, it legitimizes it. That’s just how tech works.

Will Apple do it better than the others? Who knows, but the game’s on now. That’s a *good* thing for us audiophiles.

 

[PopZeus]

@PopZeus It becomes a game when Apple decides to play in it. That’s how it’s always been. To say anything like Apple is trying “to compete with the big boys” is absurd. Apple *is* the big boy in every domain it plays in. It’s just coming to the game now. When it enters the field, it legitimizes it. That’s just how tech works.

Will Apple do it better than the others? Who knows, but the game’s on now. That’s a *good* thing for us audiophiles.

Yeah that’s a fair point. The big boys have a lot more subscribers than Apple, regardless of Cupertino’s deep pockets but Apple can compete if they want to. I definitely would say that the key though. Apple’s commitment matters if they stick will around in a product space long enough to really end up changing things or not. They’re perfectly happy to be a niche player sometimes, even though, you’re right, it’s Apple and they’re huge. I mean, Apple TV is great but it’s less popular because it’s so expensive compared to other streaming devices. I don’t think that’s gonna change soon. And anyone who’s used an Apple mouse knows they can really botch simple things. But since Apple Music is so closely tied to the iPhone, which is their best selling device by far, I’m a little hesitant to proclaim some seismic shift in the streaming “wars” right away. Though you may be right that this is the start of something.

 

[torifile]

Yeah that’s a fair point. The big boys have a lot more subscribers than Apple, regardless of Cupertino’s deep pockets. I definitely would say though that Apple’s commitment matters if they stick will around in a product space long enough to really end up changing things or not. They’re perfectly happy to be a niche player sometimes, even though, you’re right, it’s Apple and they’re huge. I mean, Apple TV is great but it’s less popular because it’s so expensive compared to other streaming devices. I don’t think that’s gonna change soon. And anyone who’s used an Apple mouse knows they can really botch simple things. But since Apple Music is so closely tied to the iPhone, which is their best selling device by far, I’m a little hesitant to proclaim some seismic shift in the streaming “wars” right away. Though you may be right that this is the start of something.

Let's put Apple TV+ aside for a moment since it's still very young and its catalog isn't great relative to the competition.

The mouse isn't a good analogy because it's not a product they try to sell as its own unit. Sure, you can buy one, but they don't promote it on its own.

AirPods - there were wireless earbuds before them but nothing like them in terms of success. They also changed the industry and began acceptance of spending triple digits for headphones.

Apple Watch - wearables existed before them. Fitbit was a niche product but had a following. Now? It's pretty much only Apple Watch unless you want something more like a Garmin (I've got both).

iPad - there was zero market for tablets before it and aside from it, there's zero market for tablets now. There was a period where android tablets seemed to be making headway but that's a thing of the past.

iPhone - I don't know how old you are but if you're my age, you remember what the cellphone market was like before it. There was a marked sea change both in design and sale of cellphones after it was introduced. It's easily the most consequential product of the century.

iTunes, the predecessor to Apple Music. This one goes further back than the iPhone. Before it, the music industry was having its lunch handed to it. After it, everything changed. Its success is the reason the video market has stood so staunchly opposed to Apple's entry - they saw how dominant they were in music and didn't want a repeat.

iPod - "No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.” Famous words in response to the release of the iPod in 2001. I don't think there's any reason to go into its history here.

In every one of these situations, Apple didn't invent the idea. There were cellphones before the iPhone, tablets before the iPad, online music services before iTunes and MP3 players before the iPod. In every one, those earlier entrants are only remembered by us tech geeks.

Apple's presence in a market validates it. Again, we audiophiles should be thrilled to see Apple make this move. I was wondering what they were planning on doing with the AirPods Max and now it seems clear they are in it for the long haul.

(The only missteps I see are the HomePod (which is a great speaker system that is hobbled by Siri's reputation) and the iPod Hifi. Everything else I can remember, well, speaks for itself.)

 

[CharlyBrown]

Latest News, Apple Music Losless will not work with AirPods (none of them). Not even with AirPods Max via Lightning.

Good news for us wired headphone users: It will work with external DAC/AMP combo.

From macrumors:

Apple told The Verge that when a 24-bit/48 kHz Apple Music lossless track is played to an iPhoneinto the ‌AirPods Max‌ using a Lightning cable and a Lightning-to-3.5mm dongle, the audio is converted to analog and then re-digitized to 24-bit/48 kHz. The re-digitization is not an identical match to the source and Apple is not able to say that it's lossless audio.

Listening to lossless audio on an iOS device will require wired headphones compatible with the ALAC format, and possibly a digital to analog converter. That the $549 ‌AirPods Max‌ do not work with Apple lossless is sure to upset some fans, but there is debate about whether most people can even tell the difference between standard and lossless audio formats.

 

[utdeep]

I really like the services side at this point. My guess is that the the Apple One Premiere (which bundles Apple Music for a family of 5 along with other services) will continue to get better and better over time and force more people into the Apple ecosystem.

 

[mammal]

I really like the services side at this point. My guess is that the the Apple One Premiere (which bundles Apple Music for a family of 5 along with other services) will continue to get better and better over time and force more people into the Apple ecosystem.

Oh I remember then Apple sucked at service offerings, remember their email solution at me.com? It never worked, but they came a long way since then. More and more services added and bundled together, for a whole family to enjoy, nice way to lock me in.

 

[RamGuy]

Hardly a surprise to anyone who knows how audio stream works. The chain goes from digital-to-analogue, analogue-to-digital, digital-to-analogue when using the minijack to lightning cable connected to the AirPods Max.

The AirPods Max have digital inputs only. When you are using minijack which is analogue, to lightning which is digital-only between your device and the AirPods Max there is obviously an ADC in the chain. This ADC seems to be very limited and will not support Apple Lossless Hi-Res as it's doing 24-bit/48kHz only.

This sure does make Apple look rather foolish. I suspect the reason for AirPods Max to not feature any analogue inputs is because of its computational audio/DSP. Apple doesn't want the AirPods Max to be utilised without its computational audio taking place (which is basically just a very fancy DSP) and by offering analogue input there is no way for Apple to engage this part of the headphones without sticking both an ADC and DAC within them.

This is what happens when you use headphones like the Bose NC 700 or Bose QC35 using cable instead of wireless. You bypass the internal DAC and DSP and their tuning has been done with this DAC and its DSP in mind so they tend to sound worse using cable compared to wireless as a result of this. Apple is bypassing this scenario entirely by making the AirPods Max digital-only.

I have no issue with this. I would go as far as to claim that if you purchase the AirPods Max only to use them with analogue input you are purchasing the wrong product. They are clearly created with its heavy emphasis on computational audio/DSP in mind. If you are going to bypass this then you should be looking at a different pair of headphones. The fact that Apple sells the minijack to lightning cable is simply an optional accessory for those who might need to use a cable in certain scenarios for whatever reason. It was never meant to offer you analogue input.


It sure does make Apple look rather silly when announcing Apple Lossless and Apple Lossless Hi-Res as you won't be able to fully utilise it within their own native and integrated ecosystem. Which brings up the question, why do they even implement it in the first place? I don't think it really matters. 24-bit/192kHz is pretty much snake oil. Even 16-bit/44.1kHz lossless vs 16-bit/44.1kHz lossy 256 kbps AAC has proven to be transparent in pretty much every scenario. It's not like you are missing out on anything. Even if you were able to feed your AirPods Max or HomePod with 24-bit, 192kHz lossless it wouldn't provide you with any better audio compared to what you are already getting.

Seems like Apple is simply introducing it to bring added competition to the marketplace. They see no benefit in actually using it. But by providing it for no additional cost they give those special snowflakes that are telling themselves they need 24-bit/192kHz lossless to fully enjoy their music one less reason to chose another service instead of Apple Music.

 

[mammal]

I have no issue with this. I would go as far as to claim that if you purchase the AirPods Max only to use them with analogue input you are purchasing the wrong product. They are clearly created with its heavy emphasis on computational audio/DSP in mind. If you are going to bypass this then you should be looking at a different pair of headphones. The fact that Apple sells the minijack to lightning cable is simply an optional accessory for those who might need to use a cable in certain scenarios for whatever reason. It was never meant to offer you analogue input.

Oh yes for sure, Apple has definitely spent some crazy man hours on implementing their DSP, to support all they want (ANC, Spatial Audio, Transparency mode). Most likely, if they offered analog input, this would go out of the window for them, or as you said, would need to include ADC in the jack itself. Why did they include a jack at all (even if digital)? I think it's because of a convenience, when you want to plug it to something (like a game controller) where you can't use Bluetooth, or it would have too much delay.

Seems like Apple is simply introducing it to bring added competition to the marketplace. They see no benefit in actually using it. But by providing it for no additional cost they give those special snowflakes that are telling themselves they need 24-bit/192kHz lossless to fully enjoy their music one less reason to chose another service instead of Apple Music.

Well, the market keeps asking for Hi-Res, for some reason. Any time I try to ABX, I fail miserably. And it does not matter if I use my TOTL setup, or what majority of listeners have (basic Airpods). What I like about CD quality, even if I am not able to discern a difference, is that it gives me psychological warm blanket that I am listening to what the studio created, not some water down lossy version (again, totally psychological, I will be the first one to admit it).

It sure does make Apple look rather silly when announcing Apple Lossless and Apple Lossless Hi-Res as you won't be able to fully utilise it within their own native and integrated ecosystem. Which brings up the question, why do they even implement it in the first place?

I think we will eventually see either Bluetooth revision, or some sort of WiFi streaming, so that APM can benefit from true high res. Currently, Airplay 2 supports only CD quality, so even their own streaming isn't Hi-Res, just lossless. Maybe a new revision coming down the road.

 

[CharlyBrown]

Another update: Dolby Atmos / Spatial Audio will not be available on the Android version of Apple Music at start. Makes sense, as the AirPods don’t offer all features on Android devices like phones or DAPs.

Lossless streaming, on the other hand, will be available also on Android from Day1!

Macrumors:

It's not clear exactly why Dolby Atmos won't be available for ‌Apple Music‌ users on Android when it launches, but it could be due to the lack of control Apple has over the handset and tablet hardware used, or perhaps rollout could come later. On the flip side, however, the higher quality Lossless audio streaming tier that Apple announced this week will be available on Apple Music for Android.

 

[torifile]

Another update: Dolby Atmos / Spatial Audio will not be available on the Android version of Apple Music at start. Makes sense, as the AirPods don’t offer all features on Android devices like phones or DAPs.

Lossless streaming, on the other hand, will be available also on Android from Day1!

Macrumors:

It's not clear exactly why Dolby Atmos won't be available for ‌Apple Music‌ users on Android when it launches, but it could be due to the lack of control Apple has over the handset and tablet hardware used, or perhaps rollout could come later. On the flip side, however, the higher quality Lossless audio streaming tier that Apple announced this week will be available on Apple Music for Android.

Just when I was settled on the WM1A as my DAP…