[tdogzthmn]

I have been looking at getting a basic STAX system for the past few months but wanted to hear some opinions of those who have experience with both types of cans.  I really appreciate detail and neutrality regarding sound presentation.  It is my hope that the new STAX models are able to present sound with the same amount of weight and body similar to the HD600 but with the same speed and detail of the ER4S.  

 

[Uncle Erik]

I'll get a beating for this, but I usually reach for the HD-800. The O2 is nice (and, admittedly I don't have a good amp for it yet), but prefer dynamics for headphones. Maybe that will change.

The problem with 'stats is that amps are very expensive and hard to come by.

For less than the cost of an O2 and a great amp, you can drop $2,000 on a pair of Quad ESLs in excellent condition and a decent used receiver or solid state amp to power them. You could do that for about half the price of a good 'stat headphone system.

You'd get detail, transparency, real bass, and a real soundstage with a pair of Quads, too. A good Stax setup will sound good, too, but you can do better for less.

I'll probably keep the O2 and, eventually, build a good tube amp for them. There are some complex (and good) solid state amps, but I'd rather have something simpler with tubes and lots of transformers.

 

[Spareribs]

I've sampled Stax and other variants. Personally, they are not for my taste. I admit, the technology is cool and different and perhaps even exotic and I even try to be exotic myself but the ordinary bland dynamic technology is generally my cup of tea in most cases.

 

[tdogzthmn]

The cost is most certainly a factor which has lowered my willingness to jump over to electrostatics.  I would love it if there was a DIY option that is fairly inexpensive and gave impressive results similar to the Bottlehead Crack I am using now.  

 

[edstrelow]

I started my phone experience with electrostatics but after a while also had several dynamics.Over the years I let the dynamics go  and kept upgrading stat phones and amps.  
 
I have a friend with a good sounding recabled DH600.  At the last LA Canjam, I also heard Headroom's  balanced HD800. This was not a cheap system, though, but I thought it came pretty close to the 007's run off the BHSE.  The problem was a residual grit or dirtiness of the dynamic sound.  Once you get used to a good stat, it is hard to fully enjoy  dynamic again, even if some of them may have some advantages such as dynamic range.
 
Now  I am not saying all dynamics have better dynamic range, but rather this can be a weakness with stats unless you spend megabucks on an amp.  Without living with the HD 800 set-up and the BHSE/007 set-up it is hard to say whether or not I would have always preferred the stats, but so far I haven't been tempted to go back.
 
Cost-wise the 003 with one of it's newer amps could be a good staring place. But if you go for a bigger amp like the new 323, you are in a better position to run bogger phones such as a new Lambda.

 

[jjinh]

I sometimes use my Stax on the weekend.
 
The rest of the time I usually use one of my Koss KSC75... although for the last week or so I've just used my Grado HF2s plugged into my PC. I've only got the music in the background as a distraction while I'm on the computer so I dont mind.

 

[baka1969]

Cost is my chief deterrent against the 009. I've heard several stats including the O2 and Orpheus (with the WES). My problem is I'd only get a Stax as a replacement for my current setup. I'm just not willing to invest $10k+ to do it.

 

[fhuang]

talking about cost, sometimes i think a top notch amp(wa5 with parts upgrade, ba or b52 for example) and a flagship model re-cabled headphones cost pretty much about same as a stax setup.  a few hundreds to a thousand dollars isn't that much of a difference/issue? 

 

[NamelessPFG]

Over the past week, I've tried to find a reason to just sell that vintage Stax SR-Lambda and SRD-7/SB and stick to the AD700s (yeah, I know, hardly high-end dynamics), such as being able to hear details I've never noticed before and making sure it isn't just placebo, but I just can't bring myself to do so. Even if the AD700s can apparently reproduce all the details I notice with the Lambdas, they don't jump out as much and it all just lacks this clear quality that electrostatics can deliver.
 
No, I haven't had the chance to hear any flagship dynamics or electrostatics. I just don't have that kind of money, and I don't know of any headphone meets around Atlanta. But I question if I'd ever go back to dynamics for a desktop listening setup, even if we're talking properly-amped HD 800s or something along those lines compared to the same old Lambdas.

 

[DaveBSC]

Have you considered the HE-500 or the LCD-2? They are sort of in-between but can still work with regular dynamic amps. For me personally, my Omega 2 sounds nearly flawless while every dynamic I've heard is flawed in this area or that. To my ears the LA7000 w/ Jmoney pads is the closest to getting it right.

 

[wind016]

 
Quote:

The problem with 'stats is that amps are very expensive and hard to come by.
 

A Stax SRM-323s can be had cheaper than almost any Summit-fi dynamic amplifier. Comparing them to the KGSS right now, they get really close.
 

 

[arnaud]

 
Quote:

At the last LA Canjam, I also heard Headroom's  balanced HD800. This was not a cheap system, though, but I thought it came pretty close to the 007's run off the BHSE.  The problem was a residual grit or dirtiness of the dynamic sound.  Once you get used to a good stat, it is hard to fully enjoy  dynamic again, even if some of them may have some advantages such as dynamic range.
 
Now  I am not saying all dynamics have better dynamic range, but rather this can be a weakness with stats unless you spend megabucks on an amp.  Without living with the HD 800 set-up and the BHSE/007 set-up it is hard to say whether or not I would have always preferred the stats, but so far I haven't been tempted to go back.

 
Got a similar experience. I used dynamic headphones for 10 years or so, culminating with the HD800 (but a reasonably priced amp - Lehman BCL). I really liked the sound of the (modded HD800) but the finesse and soundstage precision of the Omega 2 + Stax 727 amp won me over (even though the amp is not optimal for this headphone). Cost wise, as mentioned above, HD800 also ask for pricier amps and you can buy Stax gear used so it's not that different.  
 
Going back to dynamic headphones? It's a bit hard to imagine now that I have experience the 009. Price is way to high, I agree, but one you own it, you forget it . The one thing that the Omega 2 was lacking compared to dynamic headphones was punch, and this is certainly covered with the 009 (at the expense of being less complacent of poor quality recordings though).
 
So, I can imagine people being very hesitant to get locked into electrostats (no so much diversity compared to traditional headphones).  On the other hand, I have difficulty imagining people wanting to get out, unless they bought without listening and simply didn't like that kind of sound signature or did not hear the benefits with their music. It certainly could be happen, but the question is then, do you really need a high end headphone for your music, ES / dynamic is not the question. 

 

[Paul Meakin]

I have to offer a different point of view on the ESLs.
 

1. Detail; yes.
2. Transparency; yes.
3. Bass; tight, but severely lacking extension.
4. Soundstage; only if you're within the very small sweet-spot. They're the most directional speaker I've ever heard; if you move your head a few inches off axis the soundstage collapses.

 
I find the ESLs to be very "hi-fi" sounding rather than delivering music. I'm not a fan -  I wouldn't pay $200 for a pair, never mind $2000, and that holds from when they were still being made.
 
But that is what makes this hobby so fascinating; we all hear things differently. I've yet to listen to the O2s (it would be dangerous, and therefore potentially very expensive), but I'd take my Stax Lambdas over ESLs any time.
 
Quote:

For less than the cost of an O2 and a great amp, you can drop $2,000 on a pair of Quad ESLs in excellent condition and a decent used receiver or solid state amp to power them. You could do that for about half the price of a good 'stat headphone system.

You'd get detail, transparency, real bass, and a real soundstage with a pair of Quads, too. A good Stax setup will sound good, too, but you can do better for less.
 

 

 

[Anaxilus]

Kind of.  For the longest time my go to headphones were the ESP950 and T50RP (customs aside).  The only problems being I felt the ESP950 only got to the performance level I wanted using the KGSSHV, the 323 was adequate but not up to par IMO and not worth the expense over the stock box after hearing the HV.  The T50RP is great but I just didn't have the time or resources to do a full transplant and redesign at the time plus they need a proper amp as well.  Decided to look for a finished ToTL phone that I could pair w/ an off the shelf amp so the LCD2 and HE6 were the logical choices being the planar guy I thought I was.  Higher end stats were just a bit costlier than the threshold I had established.  Questions of support and timely CS seemed a bit of a complication and concern as well.  
 
After hearing the LCD2 and HE6 from a number of sources and amps a number of times there were just technical 'issues' I had w/ each and because of that I simply couldn't take that extra step and hand over the cash.  If I felt it was simply a matter of tonality I could handle w/ eq or tube rolling I would have been done but not so.  Fast forward a few months and I finally got to hear the HD800.  Bear in mind Sennheiser had been in my doghouse for more than a decade for a number of reasons.  My earlier experiences w/ the HD555/595/650 only reinforced some qualms I had w/ the brands current sound simply because they sounded nothing like the Senn I heard almost twenty years ago that got me hooked into hifi as a kid.     Based on reading impressions of the HD800's character which represented a sound completely opposite my preferences for natural, organic lushness I had no intention of that changing.  So, pop the HD800s on, plug them into lots of different gear and no surprises.  Pretty lean, tipped up bright, etc, etc.  Meh...just like the forum reads.
 
Along comes Eddie Current and Woo Audio and boy does the thing start to sing.  Really impeccable technicalities for a dynamic driver even surpassing the LCD2 and HE6 in many ways to my ear.  Figure in the benefits of a good tube amp and the ability to alter tonality through rolling and my logic started shifting towards the HD800.  The big caveat was having to dial in the HD800s synergy w/ the right amp setup.  I wasn't prepared to concede that loss in versatility at the time but in the end felt it was an acceptable compromise for the benefits gained.  That was the first clear, uncompromised upgrade beyond my ESP950 and T50RP I felt was worth the cash layout.  Especially considering it was not much more than an LCD2 for me.  If I had to pay close to $2k for the HD800 alone that probably would have been a different conversation.  So in the end I feel I've got a great headphone and amp synergy that can be dialed in to about 98% of what I want w/o any major offenses for less than $2.5k.  Not too bad.  
 
So did I go back to dynamics?  I guess you can say that.  I'd go so far as to say Sennheiser won me back as a brand too.  They even updated with the 558 and 598.  I'll be curious to hear the HD700 in the next 3-4 months and see where they take that.  ;P  
 
I still got my ortho and stat here though.  Not done w/ them yet, but at least I got some great sound that fulfills me and keeps me up late while I tinker and tweak.
 
Edit - I'll be open to the 009 adding that DD punch and impact and possibly surpassing the inner detail and DR of my HD800 setup but until one makes it onto the continent to audition it might as well be a unicorn to me.  An expensive unicorn.  A unicorn that's not a speaker system.  =P

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

I have to offer a different point of view on the ESLs.
 

1. Detail; yes.
2. Transparency; yes.
3. Bass; tight, but severely lacking extension.
4. Soundstage; only if you're within the very small sweet-spot. They're the most directional speaker I've ever heard; if you move your head a few inches off axis the soundstage collapses.

 
I find the ESLs to be very "hi-fi" sounding rather than delivering music. I'm not a fan -  I wouldn't pay $200 for a pair, never mind $2000, and that holds from when they were still being made.
 
But that is what makes this hobby so fascinating; we all hear things differently. I've yet to listen to the O2s (it would be dangerous, and therefore potentially very expensive), but I'd take my Stax Lambdas over ESLs any time.

Excellent points. Some (me included) would balk at spending $2K+ on a speaker with such limited dynamic range, that works with such a limited set of music. I've also experienced the sometimes complete absence of any soundstage from ESLs, where it sounds like the music is painted on to the panels themselves. No depth, no width. Many of the Maggies I've heard have plenty of their own problems, especially blending their various driver types.
 
Granted some of my favorite two-way minis also have pretty limited bass extension below 40Hz, but they more than make up for that by throwing incredible soundstages, and the good ones sound of a single piece, with the shift from bass driver to tweeter being completely inaudible.