[jsaliga]

Strangely enough I have been through all of this on another forum. I was a very active poster on that board for several years and invested a great deal of myself writing comprehensive how-tos and trying to be a good technical resource for other members, be they experienced or new. And I made much the same observations over there that some of the more experienced members are making here. As time wore on I came to view participation there as a job, a chore. And I found myself increasingly at odds with people who no longer seemed to share my passion and sense of what is important. A lot of "good posters" left. I would frequently lament their absence. Some of these people I came to know on a personal level, and we would chat on the phone occasionally. A few lived here in Connecticut for a time, and we would get together several times a year and have mini-meets.

I don't post there any more for a variety of reasons and I have been gone for about two years. At the time I left I felt that posting there was no longer an enjoyable way to pass what little spare time I had. Since my departure the forum membership has grown seven fold -- and it was a large forum to start with at about 100,000 members at the time I left. When I joined in 2000 there were less than 20,000 members. While I made a lot of friends at that place there is no denying that it has thrived in my absence. Recently I was doing some research and went back to the forum to see if I could find the information I was after. While the noise level was relatively high I did not have a lot of difficulty and there was still good information to be found, posted by knowledgable people who obviously care.

I say this not to intentionally offend the sensibilities of the more seasoned members here, but I can say it with 100% certainty. If you folded your tent and went home right now, never to return, this community will prosper and thrive without you. Secondly, being a newbie at Head-Fi doesn't necessarily mean being dumb-as-a-stump. There are new people constantly entering this community who bring a great deal of knowledge and experience to the table. And they have been making a positive difference here too.

As olblueyez said, life is driven by change and you can either go with the flow or swim against the tide.

EDIT: I was just reading through another thread and found a post that captured my thoughts on this subject perfectly, and I certainly could not have said it better myself:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5627254-post147.html

--Jerome

 

[pabbi1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif I say this not to intentionally offend the sensibilities of the more seasoned members here, but I can say it with 100% certainty. If you folded your tent and went home right now, never to return, this community will prosper and thrive without you.

Might not miss them today, or tomorrow, but you will over time, and we already miss some, even some that were not well liked. This community was built because another watering hole was down for a bit, but the aspirations here were different, and this grew many-fold over it's predecessor.

You are right, no one person will be missed - no one is meglamaniacal enough to believe they would be.

As my legal brethren would say, it all depends on how you define 'thrive', and, what you aspire to. My observation is that at different levels of 'seniority', we all 'aspire' for something more - and, generally speaking, noobs simply do not aspire to more without having invested time and effort.

To the poster who contends this site is about music, I simply cannot disagree more - it is about HEADPHONES, and all affiliated things thereof. Music is important, and found in copious quantities elsewhere, but NOT what this site is about.

Finally, it is mainly about the people, and how we interract with our equiptment, what we do with it (music, games, movies, WORK (recording or transcribing / transposing)), as well as how our personalities interract in sharing those experiences. It is all about sharing - and, those who don't share well seem to enjoy this community less than others.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif I say this not to intentionally offend the sensibilities of the more seasoned members here, but I can say it with 100% certainty. If you folded your tent and went home right now, never to return, this community will prosper and thrive without you. Secondly, being a newbie at Head-Fi doesn't necessarily mean being dumb-as-a-stump. There are new people constantly entering this community who bring a great deal of knowledge and experience to the table. And they have been making a positive difference here too. --Jerome

Absolutely agree with what you've stated, but what does that have to do with members, new today or seasoned, asking others to be respectful of how their words affect the community as a whole? That shouldn't be a newbie vs. veteran concern (I consider myself a newbie in many ways), and should benefit everyone. If anyone knows my posting history, it's clear I sometimes need to be reminded of that myself.

 

[HD_Dude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif Strangely enough I have been through all of this on another forum. I was a very active poster on that board for several years and invested a great deal of myself writing comprehensive how-tos and trying to be a good technical resource for other members, be they experienced or new. And I made much the same observations over there that some of the more experienced members are making here. As time wore on I came to view participation there as a job, a chore. And I found myself increasingly at odds with people who no longer seemed to share my passion and sense of what is important. A lot of "good posters" left. I would frequently lament their absence. Some of these people I came to know on a personal level, and we would chat on the phone occasionally. A few lived here in Connecticut for a time, and we would get together several times a year and have mini-meets. I don't post there any more for a variety of reasons and I have been gone for about two years. At the time I left I felt that posting there was no longer an enjoyable way to pass what little spare time I had. Since my departure the forum membership has grown seven fold -- and it was a large forum to start with at about 100,000 members at the time I left. When I joined in 2000 there were less than 20,000 members. While I made a lot of friends at that place there is no denying that it has thrived in my absence. Recently I was doing some research and went back to the forum to see if I could find the information I was after. While the noise level was relatively high I did not have a lot of difficulty and there was still good information to be found, posted by knowledgable people who obviously care. I say this not to intentionally offend the sensibilities of the more seasoned members here, but I can say it with 100% certainty. If you folded your tent and went home right now, never to return, this community will prosper and thrive without you. Secondly, being a newbie at Head-Fi doesn't necessarily mean being dumb-as-a-stump. There are new people constantly entering this community who bring a great deal of knowledge and experience to the table. And they have been making a positive difference here too. As olblueyez said, life is driven by change and you can either go with the flow or swim against the tide. EDIT: I was just reading through another thread and found a post that captured my thoughts on this subject perfectly, and I certainly could not have said it better myself: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5627254-post147.html --Jerome

Agree 100%.

 

[pataburd]

I really don't mind, but I try to keep responses brief, too. Sometimes, even with the "same old" questions, new perspectives arrive. It's a humane service to new head-fiers, as well. Until someone undertakes a radical reorganization and cataloguing of the threads with ease and efficiency in mind, I'm afraid it won't improve all that much, if at all.

What bothers me the most, perhaps, is wading through lengthy threads that repeatedly stray off topic and get waylaid along unhelpful tangents. Sometimes, admittedly, these "Stream-of-Consciousness" digressions hit paydirt; but for the most part they degenerate into insoluable mazes. In that respect, counseling a newbie to "consult the threads" can make for a blossoming head-fier's nightmare.

 

[Ashirgo]

In my particular (but probably not remarkable) opinion such threads are a little annoying, I understand that some newcomers want to obtain a part of others knowledge immediately and without effort of thinking on their own and doing some reading.

A "hard" solution would be to force them to actually do some reading before asking questions; maybe some posting restrictions giving them way to initiate new threads only after having spent some time "at least" being logged in, if not reading, which is expected

Some newbies do seem to perceive Head-fi as an alternative source of reviews/opinions on some stuff, comparable to Amazon.com etc. and I assure you, I do not like the idea of Head-fi being compared to such things.

Therefore if the community is truly going to teach and develop, it would be advisable to inform such individuals that Head-fi is sth more than a source of fast, reliable and free of charge opinions, which will relieve them of any private research.

Challenges are welcome. My English does not serve me well today

 

[pabbi1]

I'd also like to emphasize this is not a fight, nor generational struggle. We are all here because we want to be, and welcome all, well, except spammers, scammers and DBT.

Also note the meets folks host - and share, without anything asked in return - we have had 7 now in DFW, and will continue at least every 6 months, with mini-meets in between, and with our friends in other parts of the state. I will even venture to CanJam this year, which is new for me - but that is a pure human interraction, with Headphones as a convenient cover.

So, think of Headfi more like a party, where some human interractions are a bit out of bounds, but, mostly, everyone comes to have a good time.

But, I back Melos 100%.

 

[HD_Dude]

A logical approach?

Perhaps we should have a sub-forum for newbie questions. People with less than 100, 200...whatever posts.

It could be called : "New Member Questions" and contain an explainer that if you have fewer than the required number of posts, you have to begin threads here.

Or, each existing sub-forum, 'Headphone Amps - Full-Size," for instance, could have a sub-forum for new member questions.

Newbies could still participate in other threads, it's just that they could only start threads there.

If the 1000+ group wanted to visit...fine. If not, fine.

But it might address the resident frustrations...and it would also give the newbies a chance to ask questions without being smacked.

Of course, it would not address the belief among some here...that all members should thoroughly research any question before asking it...leaving the process of asking questions here a last resort.

 

[krmathis]

Its quite annoying with the same "old story" once an again. They should at least search and seek up on the subject before posting a questions which have been answered 13674 times before...

 

[shirtaspants]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HD_Dude /img/forum/go_quote.gif If the 1000+ group wanted to visit...fine. If not, fine.

It's not just the 1000+ group that wants to be segregated or somesuch, this sort of conduct is annoying to a lot more people. More importantly, its detrimental to the health of the entire forum. It doesn't do anything to help the issue at hand...

Quote:

Of course, it would not address the belief among some here...that all members should thoroughly research any question before asking it...leaving the process of asking questions here a last resort.

...which is this.

Turning this discussion into a sort of class warfare totally misses the point. The above quote applies to ALL members, and there are certainly members of the "1000+ club" or whatever that got there with the sort of behaviors that we're talking about here.

 

[Baleful]

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif All I'm tired of is the "recommend me a headphone for gaming" type threads. If only they would take the time to perform an advanced search for the word gaming in the title only, I imagine they would be hit with over 1,000+ threads to choose from.

Well I'm completely new around here, and guilty of starting one of those "recommend me a headphone for gaming" threads so sorry. But after performing an "advanced search" and reading for two days, I still had questions, and doubts. As someone who has never owned a quality set of phones, no amount of reading through past threads would have really answered everything for me. But I do know exactly what you are talking about. In my search I found the same generic thread over and over again, so for someone who has been here for a while such as yourself I could see how this would get annoying to you.

For those of you that decided to stop by my thread and offer your assistance, I am eternally grateful for your help. I have a pair of AD900's on the way and I'll be sure to update my thread when I receive them. Maybe this will help other "newbies" out that are in the same situation as me.

 

[Aimless1]

I'm not that far removed from being brand new and totally green. Now I'm just green and hopelessly lost most of the time

There are many good and thoughtful responses here already and I don't want to rehash what has been said. Perhaps I can put a different slant on the discussion .. or perhaps not.

I didn't come here to collect headphones or to acquire the best available. I was just looking for an upgrade to my Etymotic ER-6i's. For me it was all about the music. As others have pointed out, this site is NOT about the music, it IS about headphones.

If you aren't a contributing member and are not aware of the google search feature, then searching this site is pretty much a hopeless cause. As someone brand new to the hobby I was overwhelmed with information I really didn't understand and there often seemed to be contradictory information. Based on past experience it seemed reasonable to expect black and white answers ... not understanding the subjective nature of hearing/listening/sound. Like all green newbies, I was lost and confused.

I tried reaching out via PM to a couple of veteran members who seemed willing to help newbies based on their post history. That didnt' work. That's when I wrote my help me with my headphone posts. I needed someone to lead me through the headphone maze. Those results were uneven. Later on I was fortunate to have a business deal with a very newbie friendly member who in turn introduced me to other helpful veterans.

What turned the tide for me was a combination of becoming a contributing member ... giving me access to the boolean search function. I also discovered the google search feature about the same time. And the veteran member who was generous with his time was an inadvertant mentor. Based on my personal experience I may have a little different view.

The following is probably not practical, but:
1. Newbies should have a PM sent with boomana's sticky. They should have to acknowledge that they have read it, reply accordingly before they are allowed to post.
2. Newbies should have access to all the search features our site provides.
3. Newbies should not be allowed to start a new thread (if our software allows) until they have 50 posts. This applies to all forums, not just the for sale forum. Let them read and begin to participate showing an interest in our community. This allows them an opportunity to learn, to see the "proper" way to post threads and to respond to questions.

If we adopt suggestions 1 - 3 then there will be several newbies that never make it to 50 posts and we will eliminate most of the same old tired "can you help me pick a headphone" thread. This is not to discourage membership, but it is an effort for an informed and active community.

4. My impractical suggestion, but one I think is worthwhile. Junior head-fiers (51-100 posts) should be allowed to fully parcipate...but each would be assigned a mentor to help them. I'm a little fuzzy here but anyone who has been here for 1 year or longer should be able to help most newer members find information or ask questions to help guide them in putting their system together. The mentor would not be expected to have all the answers.

I too am tired of seeing the same old threads ad nauseum. Some are just lazy. Many more are both overwhelmed and confused. They need some guidance ... not so much buy this can or that fon, but rather help in thinking about what factors are important to consider.

 

[olblueyez]

It cant be as bad as some people say can it? I posted a poll. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/yo...5/#post5648354

 

[HD_Dude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aimless1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not that far removed from being brand new and totally green. Now I'm just green and hopelessly lost most of the time There are many good and thoughtful responses here already and I don't want to rehash what has been said. Perhaps I can put a different slant on the discussion .. or perhaps not. I didn't come here to collect headphones or to acquire the best available. I was just looking for an upgrade to my Etymotic ER-6i's. For me it was all about the music. As others have pointed out, this site is NOT about the music, it IS about headphones. If you aren't a contributing member and are not aware of the google search feature, then searching this site is pretty much a hopeless cause. As someone brand new to the hobby I was overwhelmed with information I really didn't understand and there often seemed to be contradictory information. Based on past experience it seemed reasonable to expect black and white answers ... not understanding the subjective nature of hearing/listening/sound. Like all green newbies, I was lost and confused. I tried reaching out via PM to a couple of veteran members who seemed willing to help newbies based on their post history. That didnt' work. That's when I wrote my help me with my headphone posts. I needed someone to lead me through the headphone maze. Those results were uneven. Later on I was fortunate to have a business deal with a very newbie friendly member who in turn introduced me to other helpful veterans. What turned the tide for me was a combination of becoming a contributing member ... giving me access to the boolean search function. I also discovered the google search feature about the same time. And the veteran member who was generous with his time was an inadvertant mentor. Based on my personal experience I may have a little different view. The following is probably not practical, but: 1. Newbies should have a PM sent with boomana's sticky. They should have to acknowledge that they have read it, reply accordingly before they are allowed to post. 2. Newbies should have access to all the search features our site provides. 3. Newbies should not be allowed to start a new thread (if our software allows) until they have 50 posts. This applies to all forums, not just the for sale forum. Let them read and begin to participate showing an interest in our community. This allows them an opportunity to learn, to see the "proper" way to post threads and to respond to questions. If we adopt suggestions 1 - 3 then there will be several newbies that never make it to 50 posts and we will eliminate most of the same old tired "can you help me pick a headphone" thread. This is not to discourage membership, but it is an effort for an informed and active community. 4. My impractical suggestion, but one I think is worthwhile. Junior head-fiers (51-100 posts) should be allowed to fully parcipate...but each would be assigned a mentor to help them. I'm a little fuzzy here but anyone who has been here for 1 year or longer should be able to help most newer members find information or ask questions to help guide them in putting their system together. The mentor would not be expected to have all the answers. I too am tired of seeing the same old threads ad nauseum. Some are just lazy. Many more are both overwhelmed and confused. They need some guidance ... not so much buy this can or that fon, but rather help in thinking about what factors are important to consider.

You and I came to many of the same conclusions.

Rules are fine. If this site decides to change rules, or enact new ones...that's A-OK. If people want to follow them they can stay. If not, b'bye.

Rules are far superior to whining, or complaining, or criticizing members for behavior that they never knew was 'wrong' in the first place.

 

[genclaymore]

forum section prolly wouldnt be that must threads if no one post for headphones recommand and price.

But it atleast those threads not being ignored and that same person starts to make 50 more because of some one not posting in them.