Anyone else tired of 'typical' headphone recommendation requests ?

[TheMarchingMule]

I agree that people can use the Search function more.

However, I can see how people want some real interaction and communication, rather than just feeling like a lurker (still).

 

[kboe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aamefford /img/forum/go_quote.gif At the risk of getting hammered by the "please search" folks, one does not have to read every post, and certainly does not have to respond to posts they don't want to...

Thank you.
Kevin

 

[boomana]

MaloS, I know you've owned and/or had the opportunity to hear many different headphones in multiple rigs from budget to stratospheric in cost, more rigs than 90% of the members on this board if I were guessing. You're aware of how unrealistic the requests are by some members, but that's because you've both the experience to know how unrealistic it is to expect everything for nothing, and also because your tastes and listening skills have been refined over the years. I strongly suspect that unless someone already has a pretty good grounding in high-end audio, he or she might think it's perfectly reasonable to expect near-perfection for $100, $200 or $300. After all, these are just headphones, aren't they? Also, what someone's standard is for "deep tight bass, natural sound with warm midrange, clear sparkling extended highs, lots of detail, great soundstage for X amount" might be very different than yours, as I'm sure your standards have changed as you've been exposed to higher quality gear. I know mine have, and it's really hard to go back or even remember what once used to blow me away having since heard better. I guess what I'm trying to say is that what might be the definition of "tight bass and lush mids" to someone coming from ipod earbuds or $25 closed headphones picked up at Target is going to be very different than your standard for the same qualities, as you have heard most everything, understand differences even subtle in nature, and have honed listening skills that make even those small difference seem pronounced.

I do, however, get your frustration. I don't think the crazy requests are ever going to stop because they're based on folks' lack of familiarity with what's out there. I do think that we as members can be more helpful by not posting about things we haven't heard personally heard ("Get the AD700s!"....egad...stop it, people), point folks to searches that might provide them with a starting point rather than just listing your favorite gear without explanation, admit if you've only heard one or two headphones if making a recommendation, and, maybe more importantly, tell them that $100 isn't going to give them the perfect rig in sq; tell them that most quality full-sized headphones need an amp, and most need better than a portable amp; that source counts; that there are almost always compromises to be made in sq if you're looking for closed headphones, or portable, or starting out on a budget; that it's sometimes better to save your money to get what you want rather than shooting for immediate gratification; and that it's really okay to enjoy what you have, including ipod earbud and unamped Koss KSC75s. Perfection can be overrated

As regards to those who think telling people to search is bad form, I understand your point, but disagree. This forum has grown to crazy proportions, which is good for the hobby, but not so good if the signal to noise ratio keeps going the wrong direction. Doing research (yes, it takes time) by searching before posting is pretty important to help give new members basic ideas of what's available and narrowing criteria down before asking for recommendations. If you don't want to tell someone to search, that's okay, but maybe provide links to quality posts (reviews, comparisons, etc.), or provide real information rather than creating more blather (i.e., not just parrot recommendations without providing background). At least, it's something to be mindful of, even if not adhered to strictly.

 

[Oggranak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smallcaps /img/forum/go_quote.gif i'm looking for a headphone that doesn't make my head itchy. can you please recommend a headphone that is made with hypoallergenic materials? btw i also want deep tight bass, natural sound with warm midrange, clear sparkling extended highs, lots of detail, great soundstage for free or next to nothing. thanks! most of the time these recommendations can be a bore for more experienced head-fi'ers are they already know what's on the market. i have only been here since feb. but i am beginning to recommend the same headphones over and over again. maybe a top 10 list or best in class listing would help? or would that just cause flame wars?

"I only have $14.95. Can you recommend something full-sized with leather earpads, automatic adjusting, large soundstage, excellent clarity, deep, tight bass, sparkling highs, liquid mids, and superior comfort that is easily driven from an iPod? Oh, and it has to look good. And the cable has to be 5 feet or shorter, anything else is too long, and volume control would be nice. Noise cancelling is also a must. They have to be easily available near where I live (Gao, Mali). It gets hot here so if there are some with internal air conditioning that would be nice."

 

[HD_Dude]

I think many of the people here with 1000+ posts get bored with things they've seen 1000+ times.

I don't blame them. But, it kind of comes with the territory. Me? Everything here is pretty darned fascinating. I'm too new to have been bitten by the bug of repetition.

One idea...kill the Head-Fi search function, and replace it with a Google box that searches just this site. I never use the search function here, because it's clunky and old and really, really inaccurate. I use Google instead because it finds exactly what I want on Head-Fi.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HD_Dude /img/forum/go_quote.gif One idea...kill the Head-Fi search function, and replace it with a Google box that searches just this site. I never use the search function here, because it's clunky and old and really, really inaccurate. I use Google instead because it finds exactly what I want on Head-Fi.

If you use the advanced function, it works pretty well. I use it and google, and sometimes get better results with the first.

 

[HD_Dude]

I haven't had much luck with the advanced search either. But I'll give it another shot.

 

[Oggranak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HD_Dude /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think many of the people here with 1000+ posts get bored with things they've seen 1000+ times. I don't blame them. But, it kind of comes with the territory. Me? Everything here is pretty darned fascinating. I'm too new to have been bitten by the bug of repetition. One idea...kill the Head-Fi search function, and replace it with a Google box that searches just this site. I never use the search function here, because it's clunky and old and hard to use. It usually returns 10,000 threads, all of which are only marginally on topic. It's really, really inaccurate. I use Google instead because it finds exactly what I want on Head-Fi.

I like to be able to use both. Google and the Head-Fi search bar give different results, and sometimes I can find something more easily with Head-Fi or with Google.

 

[catscratch]

We live in a culture of entitlement. Naturally, when a new and clueless member comes here they expect the forum to be full of happy little regulars that will be just oh-so-thrilled!!! to help them out. Which is why we keep seeing the same exact scenario and questions repeated over and over. But more importantly, we see this go on because we don't do anything to discourage this sort of behavior.

Honestly, what we need is a big, bold, sticky FAQ that pretty much tells people how it is. Boomana's newbie guide is a great step in the right direction, but it needs to be even more visible, and it needs to be expanded on. Then, we can simply stamp useless threads with the FAQ link. Once you get into the habit of that, newer members who lurk for even a little bit will see the pattern and will be more inclined to do research themselves.

Basically, discourage the type of behavior that you don't want to see right away, in as inoffensive a way as you can, and you will set the tone that you will want to see repeated later on, and in the process improve the signal-to-noise ratio of the forum content.

Right now the tone is that of endlessly inane threads, pointless posts, people recommending gear that they haven't heard, rampant fanboyism that sometimes becomes outright criminal (shilling, manufacturer fraud, etc), and in general all the stuff that is usually counter-productive to a forum (with the occasional good thread thrown in for good measure). The atmosphere has to change, which will require a concerted effort on a lot of members' parts to change it, and only then will things be different. This will be even more difficult because we've degenerated into the type of atmosphere that is common on any large, successful forum. Head-fi's descent from the more intellectual days of 2004-2005 is the typical progression pattern for any popular and successful forum. So, if we do try to change it, we will in fact be going against the grain, and will probably step on a lot of toes, and alienate a lot of the younger members that have come to expect this type of atmosphere in the first place.

Also, for a newer member that doesn't know anything, it is pretty hard to try and separate the good information from the bad. Sure, if someone is more articulate they will probably have more credibility, but we have a ton of people with 1500+ posts that haven't heard anything and don't really know anything, and a few old-school lurkers with 50 posts that are sitting on stellar rigs, can build a Blue Hawaii and really know their stuff. And for a new member, there is no way to tell. Which is only more reason to have an official resource, like the FAQ, which can give someone at least some of the groundwork they need to understand what's what in this hobby. And if they don't want to read it, then we simply will refuse to deal with them. End of story.

Of course it's easier for me to say "we need an FAQ" than it is to sit down and write it, and I know I'm probably not going to do that. On top of that, considering the amount of different opinions we have here we're probably never going to agree on what should go into an FAQ in the first place. So I'm not going to complain if nothing gets done. Hey, the more useless threads, the less threads I have to bother with...

 

[pabbi1]

One rule would be if you can't start the sentance with "From what I have heard..." (note: NOT hearsay), do NOT respond.

If it starts with "From what I have _read_ ...", it gets deleted.

Never happen, but one can dream.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Don't you get better search functions as a contributing member?

One problem I have with telling people to search is that they often don't know what it is they're searching for. Entering vague terms dredges up a lot of blather, fierce AD700 hordes, shills, fanboys, and reams of jargon that leaves them even more confused. Sometimes, posting a thread is the only way to find your bearings.

As for requesting the world for a $50 Best Buy gift certificate, remember that a lot of the noobs are kids, lacking experience with the sliding scale of prices in hobbies. This is often their first. experience. A few months ago, I bought a 1911. If you've never stuck your head into the world of guns, there is a bewildering array of options and mods you can do to a 1911. I didn't know much at first, but thanks to Head-Fi and some other interests, I knew going in that it's possible to drop $3,000+ on a full custom and that, eventually, I'd probably get pulled into that eventually. My point is that most new users don't come in expecting such a wide range of prices and performance.

It might be time for a collaborative, extensive FAQ. Preferably with a glossary of audiophile terms. And we should leave out rankings, etc. because that'll just lead to a slugfest.

 

[Oggranak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pabbi1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif One rule would be if you can't start the sentance with "From what I have heard..." (note: NOT hearsay), do NOT respond. If it starts with "From what I have _read_ ...", it gets deleted. Never happen, but one can dream.

Now, in the defense of myself and others like me, I'm going to say this: What are the chances that every good pair of headphones for someone has been tested by a user willing to respond to a post at any given moment? We're seeing experienced users whine about recommendation threads and whine about those inexperienced users who merely repeat what they've heard from the experienced users (and do note that if the aforementioned "From what I've read" is said, it is made clear that this is to be taken with a grain of salt). They both don't want to respond to request threads and don't want inexperienced users to try to help in their place? This attitude makes sense assuming that there is a fresh supply of other users with experience to help every newbie make an informed choice, but this isn't the case.

Furthermore, I am, frankly, disgusted that people here are b****ing and moaning about a few threads being in view that they aren't interested in. You don't have to respond. Sure, the person could do research and not have to post a thread, but for God's sake, why is one unnecessary thread such a big deal? Just ignore it. If a newcomer doesn't feel comfortable picking headphones without another user confirming that it is indeed right for them, I say let them ask for help. It doesn't mean they feel entitled to your service, they're just asking for a recommendation from anyone who wants to give one.

God, aren't there bigger problems in the world than confused consumers and the people trying to help them?

That said, I'm all for having more comprehensive, helpful FAQs. Boomana's guide is something I needed to see when I was originally looking. Maybe then I wouldn't have gotten a P-51 Mustang and HD650s...

One thing people DO need to cut back on is bad recommendations. Too often you see people recommending Grados in threads where the OP asks for headphones for gaming, or hard-to-drive headphones from someone who wants something for his iPod. That needs to stop.

 

[jsaliga]

On the one hand search is your friend and on the other search is not so friendly. It depends on what it is you are looking for.

If I am after information I will always do a search before starting a thread. There is no point in troubling my fellow members for information that I could find myself in a few minutes.

On the other hand, try as one might to get a feel for owner opinion on the Stax SR-404 (or any Stax headphone other than the SR-007, Omega, or Lambda) and you are going to be SOL. Yeah, there are two gigantic Stax threads here, but who has time to sift through 1,400 pages of posts? I have pretty much given up on pursuing a Stax setup for that reason. (and let's please not turn this into a Stax discussion -- my point is that getting the information you want with a search is sometimes easier said than done).

--Jerome

 

[HD_Dude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif We live in a culture of entitlement. Naturally, when a new and clueless member comes here they expect the forum to be full of happy little regulars that will be just oh-so-thrilled!!! to help them out. Which is why we keep seeing the same exact scenario and questions repeated over and over. But more importantly, we see this go on because we don't do anything to discourage this sort of behavior. Honestly, what we need is a big, bold, sticky FAQ that pretty much tells people how it is. Boomana's newbie guide is a great step in the right direction, but it needs to be even more visible, and it needs to be expanded on. Then, we can simply stamp useless threads with the FAQ link. Once you get into the habit of that, newer members who lurk for even a little bit will see the pattern and will be more inclined to do research themselves. Basically, discourage the type of behavior that you don't want to see right away, in as inoffensive a way as you can, and you will set the tone that you will want to see repeated later on, and in the process improve the signal-to-noise ratio of the forum content. Right now the tone is that of endlessly inane threads, pointless posts, people recommending gear that they haven't heard, rampant fanboyism that sometimes becomes outright criminal (shilling, manufacturer fraud, etc), and in general all the stuff that is usually counter-productive to a forum (with the occasional good thread thrown in for good measure). The atmosphere has to change, which will require a concerted effort on a lot of members' parts to change it, and only then will things be different. This will be even more difficult because we've degenerated into the type of atmosphere that is common on any large, successful forum. Head-fi's descent from the more intellectual days of 2004-2005 is the typical progression pattern for any popular and successful forum. So, if we do try to change it, we will in fact be going against the grain, and will probably step on a lot of toes, and alienate a lot of the younger members that have come to expect this type of atmosphere in the first place. Also, for a newer member that doesn't know anything, it is pretty hard to try and separate the good information from the bad. Sure, if someone is more articulate they will probably have more credibility, but we have a ton of people with 1500+ posts that haven't heard anything and don't really know anything, and a few old-school lurkers with 50 posts that are sitting on stellar rigs, can build a Blue Hawaii and really know their stuff. And for a new member, there is no way to tell. Which is only more reason to have an official resource, like the FAQ, which can give someone at least some of the groundwork they need to understand what's what in this hobby. And if they don't want to read it, then we simply will refuse to deal with them. End of story. Of course it's easier for me to say "we need an FAQ" than it is to sit down and write it, and I know I'm probably not going to do that. On top of that, considering the amount of different opinions we have here we're probably never going to agree on what should go into an FAQ in the first place. So I'm not going to complain if nothing gets done. Hey, the more useless threads, the less threads I have to bother with...

If I had as many posts behind me as you and others do, I'd possibly agree.

But it kind of sounds like, 'Hey you damn kids! Get off of my lawn!'

Very elitist, very condescending, and somewhat mean. '...we don't do anything to discourage this sort of behavior....' ? Jeez, what are we doing? Stealing your hubcaps?

Perhaps you should consider an area of the site where only 1000+ posters can get access. Then you could post and reply with wisdom, knowledge and intellectual gravity...without hearing the inane questions posed by people who just want to learn.

 

[Oggranak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HD_Dude /img/forum/go_quote.gif If I had as many posts behind me as you and others do, I'd possibly agree. But it kind of sounds like, 'Hey you damn kids! Get off of my lawn!' Very elitist, very condescending, and somewhat mean. '...we don't do anything to discourage this sort of behavior....' ? Jeez, what are we doing? Stealing your hubcaps? Perhaps you should consider an area of the site where only 1000+ posters can get access. Then you could post and reply with wisdom, knowledge and intellectual gravity...without hearing the inane questions posed by people who just want to learn.

x2