Anyone else tired of 'typical' headphone recommendation requests ?

[moonboy403]

We already have a glossary thread stickied.

As for collaborative/extensive FAQ, it'll be really hard to make one as everyone has their own opinion. Take two of the cans I've heard, the K501 and W5000, some think that the W5000 is a piece of trash and have nothing on the K501 while I think that the W5000 has a comparable midrange and bests the K501 in several other aspects. Now what are we REALLY gonna put on the FAQ? Opinions on head-fi varies too much to make one that's "objective".

Take amp as another example, some members think that they're nothing but snake oil and have no impact other than boosting volume but others swear that they have a huge impact.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HD_Dude /img/forum/go_quote.gif If I had as many posts behind me as you and others do, I'd possibly agree. But it kind of sounds like, 'Hey you damn kids! Get off of my lawn!' Very elitist, very condescending, and somewhat mean. '...we don't do anything to discourage this sort of behavior....' ? Jeez, what are we doing? Stealing your hubcaps? Perhaps you should consider an area of the site where only 1000+ posters can get access. Then you could post and reply with wisdom, knowledge and intellectual gravity...without hearing the inane questions posed by people who just want to learn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oggranak /img/forum/go_quote.gif x2

Wrong. The point you seem to be missing is that Catscratch is for the newbie. There's nothing elitist about asking members to stop making recommendations about gear they haven't heard, do a little research before posting in order to ask better questions and receive more helpful answers, provide background information to their posts so that those who are trying to wind their way through this forum for the first time have a frame of reference by which to judge the quality of post and the experience of the person posting, etc. and on. What the heck is elitist about wanting to keep to keep the signal to noise ratio down so that it is in fact easier for a new person to find real information?

"Get off of my lawn!" Hardly. More like let's keep this lawn nice so everyone can play and not turn it into a junkyard.

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oggranak ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by HD Dude ...

What you two do not understand is that the whole objective of the thread is not to complain about people asking for recommendations. We are glad to give specific advice, that is the nature of open source.

I was trying to get at the idea that people don't do anything for themselves. There is absolutely no motivation offered by this community to have people do anything for themselves (as catscratch and boomana pointed out), and the community itself has large number of inexperienced folks who WANT to give an advice - despite very likely their advice being useless (every recommendation thread will contain several posts like "I got SR60 and it is great!").

Newbies are welcomed - beggars are not. But seems there are plenty of people who like beggars, so they can give them pictures of bread instead of the actual good (and don't know better - so easy to give something that has no value, eh?).

 

[Oggranak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wrong. The point you seem to be missing is that Catscratch is for the newbie. There's nothing elitist about asking members to stop making recommendations about gear they haven't heard, do a little research before posting in order to ask better questions and receive more helpful answers, provide background information to their posts so that those who are trying to wind their way through this forum for the first time have a frame of reference by which to judge the quality of post and the experience of the person posting, etc. and on. What the heck is elitist about wanting to keep to keep the signal to noise ratio down so that it is in fact easier for a new person to find real information? "Get off of my lawn!" Hardly. More like let's keep this lawn nice so everyone can play and not turn it into a junkyard.

Well, I interpreted a little differently, I know he has good intentions but I found his choice of words a tad offensive, TBH.

I see what you mean, and I don't want to sound like I'm arguing with you here because I think most of us have very good intentions, we just want this place to be better, basically. The problem is in how to approach it. With the issue of posting about what you've heard, I see your point. However, I think that it's important to remember that often there is a shortage of real helpful information in a request thread. Let's say someone creates a thread asking for good closed bass-light headphones under $80 and two people respond recommending Skullcandy (it's an exaggeration, of course, but bad recommendations happen). Now, I have not personally tried Sony MDR-V6es, but what I do know from my own research is that there is a good chance the OP will be happier with them than with most of the other sub-80 options, and certainly more than with Skullcandy. I can choose not to post, and let the OP make a bad decision, or I can make a recommendation that he/she look into the MDR-V6es and inform them of their generally positive reception here. In this case, I think #2 is a clear winner. Problem is, when people all start recommending based on hearsay, recommendations become less meaningful.

The important thing, I think, is to see that there are two sides to it, and not to simply shun anyone who posts hearsay (unless, of course, they claim it in such a way that it is not clearly established as hearsay). It's not a simple issue, and it bothers me that some are taking their stance so aggressively.

 

[HD_Dude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif We live in a culture of entitlement. Naturally, when a new and clueless member comes here they expect the forum to be full of happy little regulars that will be just oh-so-thrilled!!! to help them out. Which is why we keep seeing the same exact scenario and questions repeated over and over. But more importantly, we see this go on because we don't do anything to discourage this sort of behavior. ...

Oh come on. His opening statement was dripping with sarcasm and mean-spirited name-calling: 'clueless,' this sort of behavior' This is not someone who's 'for' the newbies.

Edit: I really appreciate the people here who are helpful and patient with those who are learning. It's one reason this site is great. And yes, I agree that people should not give unfounded advice, as in talking about phones they've never heard.

But in the spirit of fairness, this thread too, is just a repeat of many, many similar complaint threads, in which the 1000+ folks scowl at the newbies.

So perhaps the OP also, should have searched 'Head-Fi old-timers upset with newbies asking newbie questions...' instead of posting yet another thread about it.

 

[Oggranak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HD_Dude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh come on. His opening statement was dripping with sarcasm and mean-spirited name-calling: 'clueless,' this sort of behavior' This is not someone who's 'for' the newbies.

Well, he doesn't dislike newbies, it's more like a distaste for those who come to the forum and clutter things up with self-serving threads. The issue, I think, is with two different ideas about the mentality of the newbie. While you and I (I assume you think this) may think of the newbie as just a confused consumer looking for help from those who wish to give it, some see them as self-centered people who think Head-Fi exists to help them. I apologize if it seems like I'm using a straw-man here, I know Catscratch doesn't believe that, what I'm saying is just that there are optimistic and cynical ways to look at the phenomenon, and my understanding is that Catscratch is more cynical, or at least seems so.

Edit: Also, I admit I'm prone to posting angrily and trying to incite conflict sometimes when a post doesn't sit well with me, but I also know it's not helpful to any discussion and only serves to make both sides more aggressive and set in their views. I think if we want to discuss this rationally, losing the sarcastic or condescending remarks is necessary. Although I can sympathize with your reasons for choosing to insult the OP, I don't think it's helpful to the discussion or called for, he's just another Head-Fier with good intentions.

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HD_Dude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh come on. His opening statement was dripping with sarcasm and mean-spirited name-calling: 'clueless,' this sort of behavior' This is not someone who's 'for' the newbies. Edit: I really appreciate the people here who are helpful and patient with those who are learning. It's one reason this site is great. And yes, I agree that people should not give unfounded advice, as in talking about phones they've never heard. But in the spirit of fairness, this thread too, is just a repeat of many, many similar complaint threads, in which the 1000+ folks scowl at the newbies. So perhaps the OP also, should have searched 'Head-Fi old-timers upset with newbies asking newbie questions...' instead of posting yet another thread about it.

People get offended easily. Noone likes to hear truth about their nature. That does not mean anything that sounds offensive is actually a diss.

If I wanted to read about the complaints - I would have searched. My objective was to draw attention - why do you think I worded OP a specific way. More so - I was hoping to draw attention of newbies to read what is posted here...although that may need more work.

Again: we are not scowling at newbies.

Interesting idea though...bumping all those threads at once.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oggranak /img/forum/go_quote.gif The important thing, I think, is to see that there are two sides to it, and not to simply shun anyone who posts hearsay (unless, of course, they claim it in such a way that it is not clearly established as hearsay).

That is the key. Nothing wrong with pointing someone in a direction (maybe by posting links to a review thread or a particular post you remember as being informative), or suggesting someone so a search himself (novel idea) if no one else has responded in a constructive way. But do you do that 5 minutes after the the thread's opened, 10 minutes, a second request for help? I don't know. I do shun people who post recommendations as if they know what they're talking about when it's clear they've never heard it or clearly are talking b.s. ("It's the best!"). That only provides misinformation and noise and brings the whole board down.

Quote:

It's not a simple issue, and it bothers me that some are taking their stance so aggressively.

Maybe it's because we genuinely care about this community and are pointing out things that are very real. I don't see anyone taking an aggressive stance, including catscratch, just one that's emphatic, and that's because it's...well...er...needed. Truth.

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oggranak /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, he doesn't dislike newbies, it's more like a distaste for those who come to the forum and clutter things up with self-serving threads. The issue, I think, is with two different ideas about the mentality of the newbie. While you and I (I assume you think this) may think of the newbie as just a confused consumer looking for help from those who wish to give it, some see them as self-centered people who think Head-Fi exists to help them. I apologize if it seems like I'm using a straw-man here, I know Catscratch doesn't believe that, what I'm saying is just that there are optimistic and cynical ways to look at the phenomenon, and my understanding is that Catscratch is more cynical, or at least seems so. Edit: Also, I admit I'm prone to posting angrily and trying to incite conflict sometimes when a post doesn't sit well with me, but I also know it's not helpful to any discussion and only serves to make both sides more aggressive and set in their views. I think if we want to discuss this rationally, losing the sarcastic or condescending remarks is necessary. Although I can sympathize with your reasons for choosing to insult the OP, I don't think it's helpful to the discussion or called for, he's just another Head-Fier with good intentions.

Clean. There are a few things to respect about the way you wrote this post.

 

[cyberidd]

I can understand where someone new may not know what or where to look for the information they want, and therefore start threads asking about it. Also, a lot of the people who are just getting started here don't realise the incredible way headphones hold on to their resale value and therefore are reluctant to buy something until they are absolutely sure that its custom-tailored to suit their personal needs. I also agree that it can get tiring reading what is essentially the same post over and over. Some solutions would be to have a buyer's guide (like Boomana's guide) and mini-glossary that new members have to read before they can start posting. It would be important to give *short* examples of things like headphone resale value, differing opinions and the way to take some indomation from them (look for similarities in opinions), etc. and of course point out the important search function and how to use it (search terms, the head-fi search engine, the google search bar at the top, the advanced search, etc.). Then they could have to have a certain number of posts (ex. they must achieve head-fier status) before they are allowed to start a thread. The only problem with that (that I can see) would be that its easy to rack up posts in the member's lounge, so we would just have to make member's lounge posts not count towards their post count (something that has been suggested before). This would be a relatively easy way of encouraging people to minimally learn more about the hobby before posting. If people thought it would help, there could even be stickied guides for the different genres or price ranges with the most commonly stated pros and cons for each (this solves the different opinions problem to some degree). I'm sure there are other solutions, but at least its a start!

 

[pabbi1]

I offer the entirety of my posts responding to those honestly seeking opinions, the HD800 thread aside. That is a different issue altogether.

I also answer a lot of PMs - because the noise ratio is just too high, especially in threads between cable believers, and, 'the others'.

But, say I post in a thread where someone asks about a specific amp, or phone / amp combo, or, heck, asking about the alternatives of aftermarket Senn cables. I _can_ and _do_ post from hard earned experience, and rarely toss the "Why don't you search for amp + sr-60". But, to have actual experience drowned out by "Well, I have read..." is just the ultimate rubber match, and, no longer worth the effort. If I see 'from what I've read', game over - nothing I can ever add to such a thread.

Rather than use the dreaded "From what I have read", why not just post a link to someone that actually is speaking from experience?

Engaging in point / counterpoint about actual experience is one thing, but comparing actual vs 'interpreted' is just a non-starter. It's hard enough to figure out what has just been pulled out of someone's posterior, with klingons, but to add the interpreted dimension is a dead end.

Finally, since when is there a lack of people willing to respond to anything on Headfi? THAT is never a problem, so the urge to help with anectdotasl evidence is, in the end, no help at all.

 

[logwed]

It does get very tedious, but n00bs need a place to start, I guess.

 

[Oggranak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pabbi1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Rather than use the dreaded "From what I have read", why not just post a link to someone that actually is speaking from experience?

Well, I agree that would be better, but realistically, most people don't want to take that kind of time in the post.

Anyhow, if the person takes the advice as hearsay and researches the topic, they'll come across these posts anyhow.

I think we both agree that the "newbie" should be seeing the posts from experienced users, and that's the important thing here. Obviously, people shouldn't buy headphones based on hearsay, but I think it serves an important purpose, and that is directing research. It is far easier to research a handful of hearsay recommendations than to try to find out all of the potential options by yourself.

 

[pabbi1]

Noobs are fine, and the more experienced will give them recommendations based on our experience. We were once Noobs, at least those of us who can remember back that far.

But, I will also be clear - no one owes anyone an answer, and we all share, meaning give, and take.

On other forums, we make people *read* long before they post, or they get early termination. Headfi is not nearly as draconian, but having some mandatory read / search time would not be a bad thing.

Seriously, I am thinking of ways to help the noobs - and rightly punish the 'hit and run' folks who want a quick answer on a few things, with no intentions of ever giving back.

But, where we digress is the dark side - where the "From what I've read" crowd has an agenga - pushing product, being seduced by bling, recommending something THEY want - and not at all in the best interest of the noob, or anyone else. To honestly say "You need Grado" or "You need Senn" based on what they have read is just wrong.

Finally, I almost think it doesn't matter where the journey starts, because it is a journey, and not a solution. It is a process, and unless someone is quoting process (Get to a meet, go to a store, take a wild shot in the dark after reading ACTUAL experience), then it really is retelling someone else's fish tales.

 

[Uncle Erik]

A FAQ doesn't have to be controversial. A lot of new people don't know who makes a HD-650. I don't think anyone would argue over a list of manufacturers and models, maybe common mods, stuff like that. Add in explanations of what an amp does, why a phono preamp is needed, that sort of non-controversial stuff.

The point is that there should be a straightforward way to get your bearings, rather than having to wade through hundreds of posts without a reference point.

This isn't anti-noob, either. You can go back through my posts and I can't remember the last time I told someone to use the search feature. I believe that everyone should get a welcome and a personal reply to their questions. That builds community and draws more people in. But it would be nice to have something for people to read that lays out the basics. It would also help people who visit with no intention to register or post. It can be done, and there's no reason we have to fight over the definition of a DAC, how to connect one to a computer, the production dates and a picture of a K-501, and so on. Those sorts of things should be in a FAQ or guidebook.