[stymie miasma]

As myke suggested, have a look at www.mtbr.com. It is the HeadFi of moutain bikes!

I honestly think a mountain bike is your best bet over both a hybrid and a road bike. My take on hybrids are that they are a comfortable version of a road bike, but are generally heavier. I can't think of any advantages of buying a hyrbid over a mountain bike except that perhaps hybrids have gear ratios which are slightly more suited for commuting.

First things first. Get thee to a reputable bike store! These might be hard to find, but once you find one you are set. Some bike stores will actually take your measurements and make bike recommendations based on these. Torso length will determine whether you need a bike with a long top-tube to ensure you are not cramped in the cockpit. Alternately, this can be remedied by changing the length of your stem, but you need to be aware that this can also change the way the bike handles! THe bike store folks will help you deal with these issues

As others have said - test ride the bikes! If the store doesn't support test-riding, find another store. It is really quite amazing how the slightest variations in frame geometry can change how a bike feels and behaves.

Unless you are planning on lots of off-road riding, steer away from rear suspension. In fact, for your budget, steer away from rear-suspension full-stop. $600 will get you a bike with rear suspension, but the quality will be mediocre at best. Best spend you money on better frame and components than sinking it on rear suspension that will crap out on you within a year. Rear suspension bikes also require more servicing

While they are difficult to find, you might want to consider avoiding suspension forks as well! I am not entirely sure what US$600 will get you, but just because a bike has suspension forks does not mean they are good quality. As I said, I honestly think that it is better to spend you money on a good frame and good components (drivetrain, brakes etc) rather than superfluous gimmicks. This is especially true if you will be riding predominantly on the road. If you get bitten by the mountain biking bug, then it is quite easy to save up some money and retro-fit a pair of quality shocks at a later date. Ths way, you will not be loosing sleep worrying that your ****ty frame or drivetrain are going to crap-out on you

Manufacturers to consider:

Norco
Kona
Schwinn
Giant
GT
Gary Fisher
Bianchi
Specialized
Cannondale

Frames:

ALuminium is everywhere in mtn bikes. Most frames use 7005 series aluminium. You will also see 6061 series too. Giant uses their own prop. aluminium from Alcoa. Similarly, Cannondale used their CAD series of tubing. Good things are double-butted tubesets and extra reinforcements at the headtube junctions.

You may be lucky enough to find steel bike frame. These frames are generally more compliant that the rigid aluminium, thus giving a more 'forgiving' ride. Also, Aluminium tends to snap while steel will bend

Steel frames will rust if not looked after.

Drivetrain:

IF you can get something with a full Shimano "LX" groupset, you should have very few problems. Below "LX" is "Deore" which is also good, but I think LX will serve you better. It is quality and no-nonsense. Above LX is XT and XTR, but you may not find the increased perfromance comensurate with increased price. I personally find LX strikes a hppay balance. You may also see Sachs components which also have a good reputation. In terms of cranks, Shimano, Truvativ, Race Face are all good quality.

Brakes:

In your price bracket, V-brakes will be standard I suspect. A full shimano groupset will include LX 'V-brakes'. If not, Avid also make some good and affordable brakes. Be wary of the cheaper disc brakes that are appearing on bikes. While they look cool, they are more prone to trouble than V-brakes. If the bike does have disc brakes, make sure you read others opinions of them (www.mtbr.com). As far as mechanical disc brakes go (as opposed to hydraulic), I think only Avid and Hayes make models that are worthwhile. Remember, you can always get the dodgey disc brakes removed before you make the purchase and have them replaced with a good set of V-brakes.

Suspension Forks:

Be careful here. A lot of bikes come with some pretty ordinary suspension forks which I suspect are more trouble than they are worth. As I said earlier, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find mtn bikes WITHOUT suspension forks and manufacturers seem quite happy to include crappy forks on their cheaper bikes. If you want suspension forks, Marzocchi, RockShox (probably the 'Judy' line) and Manitou are the safest bets.

Controls:

This is where you can really tailor your bike to suit you. Change the stem length or angle. Have a long, flat stem for really stretching out. Use bar ends on your handle bars to take the pressure off your wrists and put you in a more areodynamic postion. Some seatposts have 'setback' which allows you to stretch out even more and place your weight over the back tyre. You can fiddle and upgrade here at a later date.

Tyres:

For commuting, a mtn bike with slicks will really fly along. It will alos deal better with potholes, gutters, shortcuts etc. The Continental "Town and Country" is an excellent mtn bike slick that will never wear out. If riding off road, your choice of knobbies will depend on the riding conditions.

WHOAH! Got a bit carried away there. Hope this helps you somewhat!! Main points:

1. Good bike shop - good service and support
2. Test ride ESSENTIAL
3. Spend money on a good frame. Essentially everything is replaceable and will wear out. A good frame that isn't thrashed can last you for life.
4. Dont forget a helmet!
5. Have fun, get fit and laugh at the chumps stuck in gridlock

 

[Serow]

I ride a Kona Stuff and love it. If you can break this 7005 Al frame, I think you should reconsider your riding style.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by jaghouse oh yeah, dont make the mistake of buying a hybrid and then try to take it on a serious MTB trail.

And as the person who recommended you consider a hybrid, I wholeheartedly agree

Hybrids are great for what they're made for: on-road, dirt trails, and light off-road. But they simply aren't made for serious MTB trails.


Quote:

Originally posted by stymie miasma I honestly think a mountain bike is your best bet over both a hybrid and a road bike. My take on hybrids are that they are a comfortable version of a road bike, but are generally heavier. I can't think of any advantages of buying a hyrbid over a mountain bike except that perhaps hybrids have gear ratios which are slightly more suited for commuting.

Stymie, I have to disagree with that recommendation. In fact, if you're not going to be doing serious MTB trails, a mountain bike is the *worst* bike you can have. Due to their tires/wheels, they more energy to ride on the road and even fairly flat dirt trails than a hybrid or road bike. You can fix that somewhat with different tires, but it's still there. Plus (and this is bigger), the riding position on a real mountain bike is simply optimized for the travails of hard-core MTB trails, not for road riding. You don't want to find yourself riding long distances on the road on a mountain bike.

A hybrid has a much different riding position, one that's much better for road riding, in terms of both comfort and efficiency. The great thing about a hybrid bike is that it's comfortable for road riding, but it can do light duty MTB work. The good hybrids are generally not that much heavier than similarly-priced road bikes. They are also some of the most comfortable bikes you can buy. Marin makes some of the best, if not the best, hybrids on the market, which is why I recommended them. Not the best dedictated MTBs though.


Other than that point, excellent tips, Stymie

A very good guide to buying a bike. I also agree with you about shocks -- if you're not going to go off-road as much, you may not even want them (although it's hard not to nowadays).

 

[mbriant]

I bought one of the early full suspension bikes in 1993-94....a GT RTS-3. I was 40 at the time and did do some trail riding through the forests of Algonquin Park, but one flip over the handlebars onto my back, made me question the sanity of an overweight, middle aged man pursuing such a rigorous hobby.

So I put on some slicks, upgraded the low end Rock-Shox front shocks with a high end set of Judy's ( the original shocks were wobbly at best) ....added a big, cushy, wide-ass seat, cantelievered rear carrier, headlight, rear-view mirror and turned that Mustang GT into a big old Buick hi-way cruiser.

Now I stick to the roads and the multitude of lakeside path systems around Toronto and particularly along the scenic Niagara river path system between Niagara Falls and Niagara-On-The-Lake.

The balloon slicks and full suspension really soak up the bumps and curbs of the city, and with the big-ass, old-man seat, I can ride all day without discomfort. I even replaced the flat handlebars with a set which have a slight rise in them so I don't have to be hunched over at all times while riding. Those of us with bad backs can appreciate this.

With the full suspension and added accessories, and despite being made of aluminum with higher end components, it's not the lightest bike in the world....but for a 240 lb. person it's a great commuter/cruiser. It's been ridden every year for 8 years and has only required the usual annual maintenence.

 

[Enigma]

Hey mbriant, you performed what is affectionately known in mountian biking circles as an Endo! (Which is much easier to perform with the use of a front shock, going down hill, suddenly hammering the front brakes, without positioning your center of gravity low and over the rear axle)!

I've owned/ridden a number of bikes both road and mountian, and here are my opinions: First 6000/7000 series aluminum, fairly stiff but very responsive ride. (As was mentioned, fatiguing after several miles). For my road bike I've settled on a carbon fiber frame. Very comfortable, great shock dampening, but a some what flat "dead" ride...

Where mountian bikes are concerned I prefer steel and consider it to be the most enjoyable to ride, lively feel without too much bottom bracket torque deflection. I still own 2 Mt. bikes with steel frames, and spend 85% of my time riding these. I also own 1 titanium frame Mt. bike. This frame has a lot of the same ride characteristics as steel, (lively feel) but gives me a lot of unwanted front chain ring shifts/drops. (This normally happens when I get out of the saddle while climbing, which is caused by bottom bracket deflection). A friend of mine who gave me the frame and is directly involved in the bike industry said this is one of the characteristics of titanium, and that titanium is considered to be as he put it "laterally Compliant". I refer to it as "whippy or flexible". (When he use to race bikes, he said he would only consider a Ti. frame on long flat stages). My friend also has said he feels suspension on a Mt. bikes, in most cases is unnecessary, short of down hill and true racers. Just my 2 cents! Hope this helps!

 

[stuartr]

I would recommend Gary Fisher. Throughout their line they have very high quality bikes. They don't screw over their cheaper bikes. They are cheaper, but they still use quality components and good welding etc. I have a Mt. Tam, a near the top of the line bike, and it is pure heaven. It has saved my life several times. It is a hardtail, but the suspension fork (a Marzocchi bomber (a hybrid of air and oil)) is so sweet. I have dropped into foot deep ruts withing endoing. The bike is also very light, and with road tires I was doing about 25 miles a day on dirt/paved roads up in Vermont -- no unusual fatigue. The geometry puts your weight more towards the rear tire, so you have more torque. This makes it an excellent bike for climbing and makes you more confident descending. The only worry is if you are going up something that is extremely steep, you need to put a lot of your weight forward to keep your front tire down. It is a decent trade off though. I have also used a LX level Cannondale with a Cad 3 frame. I liked it very much, but it was not nearly as comfortable or as fun as the Fisher. A lower end specialized Hard Rock was my first moutain bike about 8 years ago, and that served its purpose as well. But for me, Fisher geometry was a revalation. That said, it really depends on the person, and as everyone said, go to a local bike shop and try as many as you can. At the very least try and get the big boys down: Fisher, Trek (Fisher is owned by Trek), Giant, Specialized and Cannondale. Oh, and steel will be more comfortable, but it is far heavier. I think my bike weighs around 22 lbs, but you will add a ton of weight to that if you were to have the same components on a steel frame. Carbon and Titanium are out of your price range, but have problems of their own. Carbon is particularly nasty when it fails, as it does so catastrophically -- no bends, just clear breaks. If it does, you can pretty much guarantee that you are going to be hurting...Anyway, good luck finding something, as biking is one of the most rewarding things around....other than headphones.
Stu

 

[Audio-Me]

Lol, it is a pain in the ass to ride on pavement with a MTB, but I don't like hybrids. Roadbikes are great for long distance though, high speed cruising in highest gear.

Hey, I need a new bike as well, mine's been broke for months. I'd love to have a bike during A-school down in Pensacola if it's allowed. I'd like a tough ass XC hardtail bike, but it's gotta be simple (and under $2000), preferably no front suspension, I can't stand the damn resonance (besides, I like to have a feel for the terrain anyway, quick response). Steel frame would be nice, I don't care about the weight, I ride alone, don't do races.

I've bought Giant and GT in the past, I'd like to stay in the same two families if there are bikes that will suit me well. I'll probably go store hopping in the summer. Oh and real foot pedals, not them damn clip or lock on ones where you need special shoes.

 

[myke]

Most newer air suspended forks and shocks ( the latter for the rear suspension of full suspension bike) allow you to lock out the suspension- meaning that on smooth pavement you have the option to disable the suspension. Unless you get a Marzocchi coil forks, which are very active, most air forks allow some degree of adjustment on how active you want your fork to be. I don't find front suspension to impede my riding on the road (I even did a local criterium on a front suspension mountain bike equipped with a 1" slick tires). The good thing about front suspension is that allows a bigger margin of errors when you do ride off-road- of course riding a rigid will teach you how to be a finesse rider but if you want to rip the trail, especially singletrack you'd probably better off with 2"-4" of front suspension. Nothing beat going downhill knowing that a a few scattered rocks and pebbles won't slow you down

 

[dcg]

Wow, who knew there were so many head-fiers who actually made time to do stuff besides listen to phones all day long?

Seriously, I appreciate the help, guys. Luckily there are three bike shops within a mile of my apartment, so this weekend I'll likely get to try some stuff out. Unfortunately, I doubt I'll be in DC next year, so I'm thinking I'd be better off waiting to see where I end up and buying from a shop near me so that I can go back to the place of purchase for tune-ups/problems.

I used (about 6 or 7 years ago) to read Mountain Bike magazine and it occured to me today that they put out an April buyers guide every year, which I just went and grabbed. Should be helpful to learn about what's out there.

 

[dcg]

Update - I've been to a few shops in the area, getting a better idea of what's out there. My question - why are all these bike SO DAMN UGLY?

All I want is a plain, single color frame with the manufacturer's name. Poop.

Anyway, aside from that I'm trying to decide whether I should go to the top of my range or try a bike at the bottom to see how much I actually use it before splurging. I've heard good things about the Gary fisher Marlin at $470, and about the Giant Rainier at $699. Of course, I'll need to test both out.

Kona looks interesting as well, but I'm not sure where the nearest dealer is.

 

[Audio-Me]

Someday, I'd like to get a custom Seven Sola (look how simple it is, dool, the ride synergy is so incredible!). I've tried a Litespeed ti bike, didn't think it was too hot.

 

[dcg]

Quote:

Originally posted by Audio&Me Someday, I'd like to get a custom Seven Sola (look how simple it is, dool, the ride synergy is so incredible!). I've tried a Litespeed ti bike, didn't think it was too hot.

Now that is a nice looking bike. Too bad it's just slightly out of the price range.

 

[Audio-Me]

If you ride free range (XC, everything, offroad, dh/uh, road, etc), this is the creme of the crop hardtail bike. Well worth the money IMO. But audio comes first for me.

 

[stymie miasma]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF Stymie, I have to disagree with that recommendation. In fact, if you're not going to be doing serious MTB trails, a mountain bike is the *worst* bike you can have. Due to their tires/wheels, they more energy to ride on the road and even fairly flat dirt trails than a hybrid or road bike. You can fix that somewhat with different tires, but it's still there. Plus (and this is bigger), the riding position on a real mountain bike is simply optimized for the travails of hard-core MTB trails, not for road riding. You don't want to find yourself riding long distances on the road on a mountain bike. A hybrid has a much different riding position, one that's much better for road riding, in terms of both comfort and efficiency. The great thing about a hybrid bike is that it's comfortable for road riding, but it can do light duty MTB work. The good hybrids are generally not that much heavier than similarly-priced road bikes. They are also some of the most comfortable bikes you can buy. Marin makes some of the best, if not the best, hybrids on the market, which is why I recommended them. Not the best dedictated MTBs though.

This is true MacDef. I guess the end-user has to try and assess where they will be doing most of their riding. I personally feel that given the different choices available in stem length/angle combined with riser bars and bar ends, slicks etc, that a mountain bike "base" can give the rider a lot more options than a road bike or a hybrid. Anyways, I think cranking around town on a 30 pound mountain bike is not only great for one's fitness, it also really makes you appreciate the day when you 'upgrado' to that featherwieght 22 pound machine

dcg -

I checked the specs on those bikes. If you can afford it, I think the Fisher "Tassajarra" would be a much better ride for a little bit more money over the "Marlin". The Shimano "Deore" components equivalent to the old STX-RC which I had on an old Moongoose. They work really well and will function infinitely better than the Altus/Alivio combination on the Marlin. If you can afford the $800 price tag...the Hoo Koo E Koo looks pretty snazy

The Giant "Rainier" packs in a lot of features for the price. I havent had any experience with the Avid Mechanical disc brakes, but they are supposed to be excellent. Bear in mind that these may be a lower model to the ones I have heard good things about...I'd need to check the Avid homepage for specs. ANother thing to consider is that with the disc brakes and shiny tubeset, your bike is going to attract a lot of unwanted attention. Factor a solid bike lock into your budget if you suspect you may need to leave the bike unattended. The Kryptonite "New York" bike lock works well for me, plus you will need some cable to secure the wheels.

Maybe see what you think after a test ride??

Keep us informed!

 

[Audio-Me]

If you invest a good amount of money on a bike, get it covered in your home insurance policy. Also, use both a u-bolt lock and cable lock. I've had a few quick release seats stolen, so change it to a bracket! For detailed tips, ask local bike salesperson, or if you ride in a place where a whole bunch of dirt bags live like LA, go to the police station to find out more about bike security.