[awyongcarl]

Excuse me but, do you mind elaborating the bold text? I'm sort of interested.
 
Quote:

I'd never go back to the K701s. I just keep both, the HD800 and the K701.
 
K701 has a partly above-head localized soundstage, which I don't like. And it's uncomfortable to wear.
 
My HD800 has not that bad treble issue together with my Canate.2. It just sounds wonderful.
 
K701 has slightly more impact in the bass department, but that's mainly because it sounds less lush compared to the HD800.
 
But K701 comes in general very close to the HD800 in terms of sound quality and reproduction.
 
Also I have to say that I own the "bass heavy" version of the K701 at the moment.
 
Older K701s I had did not have that much bass.
 
Well, I'm very very happy with the HD800 + Cantate.2, cause it offers the sound I often want to hear from classical music.
 
HD800 is for sure a 100% classical music can.
 
Other genres are done better by other cans.

 

[p a t r i c k]

Quote:

Hmmm, I'm not sure if I did the right thing by ordering a set of 701's after reading this thread. Well I'll see in a couple of weeks whether it was worth the bother or not.

Personally I think you have done the right thing
 
However it will be interesting to see how you find them.
 
The AKG K 701/2s are stunningly good headphones and examples of hi fi at its absolute best.
 
Use them with a good amplifier and source, giving them a first class input signal and you will be amazed at the accuracy of their rendition.
 
I do listen to classical music 99% of the time and I find them to be just wonderfully revealing.
 
Of late I've been listening to a set of Sibelious symphonies by conducted Gennady Rozhdestvensky with the Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra.
 
This is music I'm familiar with, known it for years. However I am hearing new insights on a regular basis with the AKG K 701/2s because they are so capable.
 
To me it is a surprise that some people haven't noticed that these headphones truly are absolute gems.

 

[lejaz]

patrick wrote: "However their resolution ability, their ability to describe very complicated musical structures, their ability to show textures, timbres, differing sonic temperatures etc. is truly stunning." I won't argue that point. They ARE stunning in many respects....and if their 'flaws'(perhaps only a subjective opinion) don't take away from the music for you, then you're going to love them. I still use and enjoy mine with acoustic jazz. Definitely not the best for rock or baritone range male vocals, IMO.

 

[InnerSpace]

Quote:

Unfortunately many headphones and amplifiers these days apply warmth to everything ... I also know that for me it is a great joy to have headphones that do not apply a warm soup to everything as has unfortunately become fashionable it seems.

Patrick, I think you're in a slightly unusual position because of your classical listening preferences.  It's a position I understand and share to a degree.
 
But do this thought experiment: suppose the RFH was the only venue in the world, and that therefore all the world's classical recordings were made there.  Then suppose that the RFH's recording engineers were for some reason driven to record everything with hot, harsh, fiercely treble-tilted distortion.  Would you not find yourself trying to compensate at home to maximize your enjoyment?
 
That's the situation the majority of listeners are in.  Non-classical genres are recorded terribly now, for various reasons.  The "warm soup" is a defensive measure.  It's the end result that matters.  "Cold" recording + "warm" playback = neutral result.  That's what folks are trying to do.

 

[lejaz]

Also, I think a lot of older rock and jazz albums were probably mixed on speakers with less high end than the 70X. I have some old Simon and Garfunkle CD's originally recorded in the '60's and the sibilance is way over the top with the 240DF as well as the 702. No way the engineers would have let that through... if they heard it that is. Some mid '60s Beatles stuff as well, is over the top bright with the 702. But there's one particular S&G CD that has some of the worst sibilance I've ever heard. Wonder what speakers were in that studio at the time it was mixed or perhaps digitally remastered.
 
Quote:

Quote:

Unfortunately many headphones and amplifiers these days apply warmth to everything ... I also know that for me it is a great joy to have headphones that do not apply a warm soup to everything as has unfortunately become fashionable it seems.

Patrick, I think you're in a slightly unusual position because of your classical listening preferences.  It's a position I understand and share to a degree.
 
But do this thought experiment: suppose the RFH was the only venue in the world, and that therefore all the world's classical recordings were made there.  Then suppose that the RFH's recording engineers were for some reason driven to record everything with hot, harsh, fiercely treble-tilted distortion.  Would you not find yourself trying to compensate at home to maximize your enjoyment?
 
That's the situation the majority of listeners are in.  Non-classical genres are recorded terribly now, for various reasons.  The "warm soup" is a defensive measure.  It's the end result that matters.  "Cold" recording + "warm" playback = neutral result.  That's what folks are trying to do.

 

[MikePio]

Threads like this worry me! The HD800 has always been a headphone of interest for me, even more so since I enjoy cans that are revealing by nature. Having owned the 701 for a long time, I come to know them very well and will admit they are fantastic value for the money. I still think the 701's are the best bang for the buck out there out of all the headphones in terms of performance. Just look at the fact that people are going back from 1200+ dollars to 250 dollar headphones, that in itself is a huge compliment towards the potential of the AKG. That aside I still think with the right chain of components the HD800 should outshine the 701's without much trouble, I think I could detect this even if listening to them briefly. The problem I have with both cans, are that neither present music in a soulful way, the quality is superb (HD800 even more so) but for me are just lacking that connection with the music, call it warmth, synergy, magic etc... but it just feels cold and empty (hard to explain lol.)  Cheers,

 

[Sophonax]

Here's my take on the HD800 vs. K701:
 
With regards to the warm v. cold argument, I'd say the HD800 is slightly cold whereas the K701 is relatively neutral (i.e. K701 is a bit warmer than the HD800).  The HD800 seems to have more bass and treble than the K701, but I think the K701 has stronger bass impact.  I'd agree with earlier comments that the K701 seems to have a peak in the upper mids / lower treble region.
 
I'd also agree with earlier comments regarding soundstage -- their soundstage width is about the same, but the HD800 has much better depth.  Call me crazy, but I actually think the K701 has sharper imaging than the HD800 -- the imaging of the K701 sounds a little unnatural due to the lack of soundstage depth, but instrument localization is very precise and sharp with them.
 
With regards to detail, both are great, but the HD800 edges out the K701 here.
 
Overall I think the HD800 is the better, more tonally neutral headphone of the two, and for most music I prefer the HD800.
 
That being said, the K701 does have its merits, particularly with certain kinds of music.  Because of its additional bass impact, I tend to prefer the K701 with motion picture soundtracks.  And because of its upper mids / lower treble peak, I think the K701 sounds great with acoustic guitar -- the string plucks and attacks sound so quick and sharp.
 
My conclusion:  owning both is the best way to go

 
Oh, and by the way, when it comes to openness, speed, soundstage, and detail, I think the K701 is the closest mid-fi headphone to the HD800.  However, in terms of overall tonal balance, I find the DT880/600 to be closest to the HD800.

 

[sling5s]

1X  
 
Quote:

Here's my take on the HD800 vs. K701:
 
With regards to the warm v. cold argument, I'd say the HD800 is slightly cold whereas the K701 is relatively neutral (i.e. K701 is a bit warmer than the HD800).  The HD800 seems to have more bass and treble than the K701, but I think the K701 has stronger bass impact.  I'd agree with earlier comments that the K701 seems to have a peak in the upper mids / lower treble region.
 
I'd also agree with earlier comments regarding soundstage -- their soundstage width is about the same, but the HD800 has much better depth.  Call me crazy, but I actually think the K701 has sharper imaging than the HD800 -- the imaging of the K701 sounds a little unnatural due to the lack of soundstage depth, but instrument localization is very precise and sharp with them.
 
With regards to detail, both are great, but the HD800 edges out the K701 here.
 
Overall I think the HD800 is the better, more tonally neutral headphone of the two, and for most music I prefer the HD800.
 
That being said, the K701 does have its merits, particularly with certain kinds of music.  Because of its additional bass impact, I tend to prefer the K701 with motion picture soundtracks.  And because of its upper mids / lower treble peak, I think the K701 sounds great with acoustic guitar -- the string plucks and attacks sound so quick and sharp.
 

 

[Ikarios]

 
Quote:

Also, I think a lot of older rock and jazz albums were probably mixed on speakers with less high end than the 70X. I have some old Simon and Garfunkle CD's originally recorded in the '60's and the sibilance is way over the top with the 240DF as well as the 702. No way the engineers would have let that through... if they heard it that is. Some mid '60s Beatles stuff as well, is over the top bright with the 702. But there's one particular S&G CD that has some of the worst sibilance I've ever heard. Wonder what speakers were in that studio at the time it was mixed or perhaps digitally remastered.
 
Quote:

Quote:

Unfortunately many headphones and amplifiers these days apply warmth to everything ... I also know that for me it is a great joy to have headphones that do not apply a warm soup to everything as has unfortunately become fashionable it seems.

Patrick, I think you're in a slightly unusual position because of your classical listening preferences.  It's a position I understand and share to a degree.
 
But do this thought experiment: suppose the RFH was the only venue in the world, and that therefore all the world's classical recordings were made there.  Then suppose that the RFH's recording engineers were for some reason driven to record everything with hot, harsh, fiercely treble-tilted distortion.  Would you not find yourself trying to compensate at home to maximize your enjoyment?
 
That's the situation the majority of listeners are in.  Non-classical genres are recorded terribly now, for various reasons.  The "warm soup" is a defensive measure.  It's the end result that matters.  "Cold" recording + "warm" playback = neutral result.  That's what folks are trying to do.

Yes, this is precisely why I generally don't listen to older albums - I have a preference for lots of treble detail and the sibilance on most pre-80s/90s stuff is horrifying, to me. I'm also just conditioned to the clean sound of newer CDs and modern mastering (although I will say that modern mastering DOES suck). A lot of people will disagree with me here but this is just my preference.
 
Quote:

Threads like this worry me! The HD800 has always been a headphone of interest for me, even more so since I enjoy cans that are revealing by nature. Having owned the 701 for a long time, I come to know them very well and will admit they are fantastic value for the money. I still think the 701's are the best bang for the buck out there out of all the headphones in terms of performance. Just look at the fact that people are going back from 1200+ dollars to 250 dollar headphones, that in itself is a huge compliment towards the potential of the AKG. That aside I still think with the right chain of components the HD800 should outshine the 701's without much trouble, I think I could detect this even if listening to them briefly. The problem I have with both cans, are that neither present music in a soulful way, the quality is superb (HD800 even more so) but for me are just lacking that connection with the music, call it warmth, synergy, magic etc... but it just feels cold and empty (hard to explain lol.)  Cheers,

Keep in mind that the K701 does not necessarily have to be compared to a $1200 headphone... in fact, many people say that the HD600 fixes everything the K701 does wrong. IMO the HD600 is a sidegrade, depending on where your preferences lie - to a super-detailed, wide sound or to a more well-balanced, smoother sound. A lot of people consider the SA5000 to be a small upgrade to the K701, too - I haven't heard it myself, but I am quite interested.

 

[ex0du5]

This thread is making me reconsider...I might be better off just keeping my K702 and upgrading the DAC/amp instead of going to the LCD-2. I'm really afraid they might be far too warm for my liking (not a big fan of HD600/650).

 

[ardgedee]

Quote:

As far as amping being the saving grace for the K702 I think that is a misleading thing to promote... amping helps, it doesn't fix.
 
Look at the K70X too... their impedance curve is quite generous to amps despite their lower efficiency... so they don't appear to be that hard to drive after all, whereas the HD 800 fluctuate greatly and people could (and do) play the same card which doesn't work in this case either.
 
People need to just stick with what they like... and yes, even if it happens to be the K70X

In the case of my experiences, I've compared how the K702 sounded with both the Elekit TU882 and the Violectric HPA-100. They're both well-regarded and fully capable of driving considerably more difficult loads than the K702 presents.
 
The K702 has the potential to sound good, without qualifications, through the Elekit. In fact, I got the best sound out of the K702 with an Elekit, its stock GE tubes, and some very thin, light cloth under the earpieces of the headphones, cut in the standard Friend or Foe pattern -- the sibilants were gone, the detail was still good, the soundstage was narrower but still had space, and the upper-mids were leveled out and controlled. I genuinely enjoy this combination. Replacing the GE tubes with Western Electrics -- and no other changes -- brings back some of the characteristic harshness the phones are criticized for.
 
Through the Violectric, well, there are better headphone options. In the case of the HD800, it was voiced using the HPA-100, so it was literally made for that amp; a little too dry and analytic for my tastes, but it is in fact a matter of taste. In contrast to the Violectric, the HD800 sounded as fun as it ever could through the Elekit with Western Electric tubes; the soundstage was narrower and less detailed but there was also less of an overly crisp, analytical quality to the sound.
 
So I don't think it's a matter of the K702 being difficult to drive, relative to its peers. I think that the voicing of the amp (assuming it has sufficient power to drive the phones properly) has a great deal to play with how well any headphone sounds, but the K702 are particularly susceptible to idiosyncrasies. And it is also, of course, a matter of the user; I might be overreactive to sibilance and to balance in the upper ranges, but they might not bother somebody else.

 

[Pioneer31]

 

But the real world doesn't sound warm

You seem to think we live in a perpetual warm sonic environment. So replay equipment is always to sound warm and if it doesn't it is at fault.

This is why I'm saying that it is odd when people complain that audio equipment is "lacking warmth". As if warmth were some necessary inclusion.

 

 

 

Do you put seasoning or salt in your food?
 
I bet you do.....
 
Lack of warmth isn't an accurate description of them (whatever warmth is). Serious lack of bass is. I've heard lots of live bands and the bass is very prominent. You can feel it.
 
With AKG you can scarely hear it, let alone feel it.
 
You seem to think that AKG has it neutral and everything else is fuzzy warmth. You can go the other way with distortion and end up with metallic clatter. Early CD's sounded like this. You'll also find this sound on poor enconded MP3's (ie distortion). 
 
I've never stood in a music venue and thought "ouch, this band has no bass and an annoying 8kHz peak"
 
p.s. What instrument do you play?

 

[Acix]

^^ those days most of the food is over salted = overpowering treble and bass. 

 

[Sophonax]

 
Quote:

This thread is making me reconsider...I might be better off just keeping my K702 and upgrading the DAC/amp instead of going to the LCD-2. I'm really afraid they might be far too warm for my liking (not a big fan of HD600/650).

If you don't like the HD600 / HD650, there's a good chance you won't like the LCD-2 either.  I've tried the HD650 and the LCD-2, and I wasn't particularly fond of either of them for their warm / dark nature.  If you like the brighter, airier presentation of the K702, the HD800, T1 or maybe even the HE-6 would probably make more sense for a headphone upgrade path.
 

 

[lejaz]

I recently purchased a couple of the remastered Beatles CD's. Anyone who can't hear the bass on Sgt. Pepper's and Abbey Road with the k702 is clearly deaf! Some very nice of bass on some of the early Miles Davis albums with Paul Chambers and John coltrane too. Cant understand that 'no bass' criticism at all. Maybe it's not enough for someone's taste, but it can certainly be heard loud and clear. Any more bass would overpower the other instruments/voice